Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
there was one particular book, printed on black pages, with some scary pictures on it... I remember my dad saying it was a gift from the polish consul (my father was well related in the diplomatic circles and diplomats were a common sight at our home)...
I can't remember the book's title but it was something like "we'll never forget" and, obviously, it was printed by the communists... it showed pics from the concentration camps... (communists were the enemy then, my brother and I used to call the fence between our house and the neighbour's "the shame wall", in a reference to the Berlin wall, which we saw at the Life magazines we read)
I never had any doubts that the concentration camps were real and that terrible things happened to the jews... at the time I could not understand why people would be killed just because of their religion...
I remember my mom telling us (me, my older brother and my old sister) about the concentration camps... how the jews were tricked to go the baths and instead of water gas came out of the faucets killing them all... my sister had to read the Anne Frank Diary for school and I read it too...
also we had some russian and ukranian neighbours, escapees from the communists, who repeated the same stories... it was "common knowledge"...
until I got older jews were just people of a different religion... when I was 10 I left elementary school to what was called "middle school" (5th to 8th grade)... after some tough tests I was admitted at the best school in town, a public school where there was 1500 boys, of all classes, from the poorest to the richest...
the demographics for an average class of 40 kids were: most catholic from polish, italian, portuguese or spanish families, one or two black kids, one or two protestants (the germans), maybe one muslim and one japanese, and three or four jews... (I still live in a city with a large percentage of jews, about 10%)...
so it was pretty common (before the politically correct craze) to call my fellow students "pole", "german", "italian ", "negro", "jap" or "turk" (anyone from middle east was automatically a "turk" even if they came from syrian or lebanese families)... only one nickname was not allowed: "jew"... if you called one of them a "jew" it was considered offensive... it took a few months for this 10 year old kid to understand that, why they didn't mix with the rest of us, but at end of the first year I finally understood that "jew" wasn't someone of the judaic religion but a person of the "jewish people"... yet the nazis were still evil and the jews were victims, no doubts about that...
after middle school, just before university, at a history class the teacher was talking about the holocaust and the "6 million" when one student raised his hand and said "there's doubts if this number is real" to what the teacher answered "the numbers don't matter, it's still a crime even if the nazis killed only one innocent child"... brain washing at its best... but yet I still hadn't any doubts.. I've seen the pics, I've heard stories from people who were there, there was no room for doubts...
a couple of years later I went to Germany for the first time... my best friend was the son of a german who was 17 when he had to fight the eastern front, and his dad hated the war... thru my friend I had the chance to know german families at their homes and then I heard many stories about the war... so for the first time in my life the germans were not "nazis" but ordinary people, very unlikely to the ones portrayed at the movies... I decided not to visit the concentration camps, I thought they were not a fair representation of the war or the german people...
when the TV series "Holocaust" was shown everybody had the same opinion: ridiculous, a gross exageration... slowly I started to understand the power of propaganda... one late night I was watching a movie at the TV, The Rose Garden, about a nazi who used to hang children with his own hands... it was disgusting until I saw the disclaimer at the end of the film saying it was fiction and had no relation to facts... I was pissed... why would they show something so disgusting, giving the spectators the impression it was based on facts when it wasn't?... soon I learned about the "holocaust industry" and the power of Hollywood...
many years later I found CODOH and I spent many hours reading the threads... it was the last straw, I became a revisionist, and as they say, "never again" will I be fooled...
Well, to cut a long story short, out of desperation for a new approach I googled 'holocaust denial' and soon enough found 'One Third of the Holocaust' and 'Last days of the Big Lie', which I think are a jump forward in presentation from Zundel and David Irving. By the holocaust, I mean Auschwitz, the Action Reinhardt camps and the scale of the Einzatzgruppen shootings, not the prior persecution. The videos didn't convince me, but they certainly made me question, and so I checked out Arthur Butz's book and some of Carlo Mattogno's. Paget's British book on the Manstein trial was an eye opener too. Then I looked at Martin Gilbert's Holocaust (1985) to get the other side and was really shocked at the low level of evidence cited for the claimed facts - and this from a biographer of Churchill, who is certainly capable of much better. I've written enough history myself to figure that one newpaper article to support 60,000 deaths isn't the best you can do for 20th century history.
So I find myself coming to the conclusion that, with many fewer dead bodies than supposed, no murder weapon and - and here I know from long experience - no adequate motive - this is no normal murder investigation. Holocaust studies now seems to me something like psychoanalysis, critical theory or post-modernism rather than a serious empirical study. I have only met one post-grad involved in it and he seemed to know the score and treat it as a branch of literary studies. I look again at the eye-witnesses and just think to myself, 'no, I don't believe you'.
I don't believe there are certainties in history and in terms of the balance of evidence, I'm still open minded rather than anyone's poodle, but if you ask for my honest opinion, I don't believe it any more. Thus far, I have found that this allows me to make sense of things that are otherwise unexplicable, such as the massive support for national socialism, the apparently honest affection of Hitler's secretaries for him, the incredible passivity of the alleged victims, the contrast between human nature in WW2 narratives and what we know in ordinary experience, even ordinary wars, and much else besides.
In High School, I remember being shown the standard films of cadaverous bodies being bulldozed into mass graves, watching the Ann Frank film and the like - but honestly, though I cannot say I was a non-believer in any conscious way, it all just a surreal quality about it that made it seem more like some kind of horror-film that an actual historical event - fortuitous irony, I must say.
As a young adult, I began to become interested in politics, world events, and history. As the years progressed and I read more and more, it became increasingly clear to me that so much of what I thought I knew, or called history, was of dubious or questionable nature at best. Then came the internet...and the door to wisdom and true enlightenment were flung open wide!
I don't honestly recall where I fist stumbled upon legitimate "holocaust" Revisionism, but when I did it immediately piqued my interest. From the mid-90's onward I steadily sought out more information on the topic, but truthfully, it was just a passing interest at that time - I was absorbed in career and all that activity and really didn't pursue it whole-heartedly. Then I beagn to read about imprisonment of Revsionists, draconian speech-codes, the criminalization of any questions of the mighty "holocaust" and the like - my interest was renewed, and this time seriously so. The idea that people were being literally imprisoned for Thought Crimes was horrifying to me! That was truly the 'scales fell from my eyes' moment. My skepticism of the whole "holocaust" narrative was now in over drive, as there was - at least to me - no logical, rational reason to outlaw historical research, questions, observations...unless there was REALLY something to hide here!
From that point on, I scoured the net and a little at a time began to amass a small library of Revisionist literature. With each successive step I took, I found the orthodox tale less and less believable - to say the very least! Leuchter, Butz, Faurisson, Rudolf, Mattogno, Graf, I read all I could get my hands on(and continue to do so). I also investigate the works of the ortodox "scholars" for balance, etc. as well. I have ZERO doubt that this story we have been virtually spoon-fed of "genocide" or mass-murder of Jews in gas-chambers, of the entire "Final-Solution" just cannot, does not stand up to historical investigation and, in most cases, even the slightest scrutiny!
That's the long and short of it - it is a journey toward the truth - and toward helping in any way or form to get people to realize they have been duped - they have been sold a tale so wicked, so evil, so...well, unsupported by fact, that everyone deserves to be, nay, MUST be told! I am in no way motivated by "hate" or anything so simplistic and pedestrian - and I can see no one here is either!
SevenUp wrote:This has been an interesting thread, with each poster explaining how he/she came to question the holohoax. However, the expected shills have now derailed the thread with idiotic 'debate' about the particulars of the hoax. I suggest that those posts, along with this one, and any future posts not responding to the topic of the thread be deleted.
Although "new" to the forum, I'll second that.
This has been an interesting thread, with each poster explaining how he/she came to question the holohoax. However, the expected shills have now derailed the thread with idiotic 'debate' about the particulars of the hoax. I suggest that those posts, along with this one, and any future posts not responding to the topic of the thread be deleted.
and realitycheck, you said:
Although "new" to the forum, I'll second that.
Your points are quite valid. I have deleted the off topic posts and the responses to them which were necessarily off topic as well. It's helpful when we receive suggestions which assist in keeping this forum on track. Thanks.
I have to say I don't think I had any sceptical beliefs about the 'Holocaust'. though it irritated me that it was used in effect to justify mass murder in Vietnam, Indoneisa, Biafra... The very first doubt I recall seeing was in a Mensa magazine (in Britain), in 1997 I think, where the editor (who oddly was not a member) published the email address of the Zundelsite, as far as I remember in a neutral way, and with no comment. I downloaded a lot of material, both pro and con - these days it would have downloaded much faster, and be storable more easily. I burrowed through it and could see the way the arguments leaned. Another significant pubication was 'Did Six Million Really DIe', which I still consider one of the best overview pieces - quite short, but covering all the mythological elements. I contacted David Irving, who was very helpful and interesting, and also Gerald Fleming, who didn't reply! And so on. Internet was pretty much essential, as far as I'm concerned at least. Finding sceptical books is enormously more difficult, though I found to my surprise that Arthur Butz's book was in my local library's storage system.
I wonder if there's some way to identify suspect theories in a rational way. There are plenty more out there. Although I get exasperated with credulous people, I remind myself that I was one of them too.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.
- Valued contributor
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:19 pm
- Location: Zionist country
The person who spoke them to me is a friend who holds a Ph.D ( with honors ) in philosophy from a respected university. He was and still is a Roman Catholic priest
who held a high ranking position in the Catholic church.
I had never heard anything like that before and had no idea how to respond. Therefore I just let it pass and we talked about other things.
3 years later, in 2003, I heard virtually the same comments from a different Catholic priest. He too was a trusted friend. This time, I decided to do some homework to prove him wrong. Long story short, after 3 weeks of doing research, I found out these priests were right. It was a hoax.
There was no evidence to support a planned gassing program to murder Jews, and anyone who tried to investigate via " official " channels, would be denounced as an anti-Semite, racist or Nazi. I ran into several brick walls and was vicioulsy insulted simply for asking questions.
nce that time I have continued to read, do research, talk to other educated Revisionists and engage the centers of influence in my circle of friends, relatives and fellow parishioners near and far, in the Catholic Church to spread this truth.
I have found about half of those I talk to had doubts about it, but never knew any of the details to understand the big picture, or how many vested interests were behind the effort to sell the hoax worldwide, despite a mouintain of evidence that debunks 95% of the allegations against Hitler and the German people.
just lies from the abandoned race.
I think that a lot young persons would have done that. What could they lose? Their lives?
Imagine only 1 percent of the Jews would have tried to run away. Say 50 persons. These guys would have caused a chaos and made the mass murder impossible (there were only twenty or so guards).
The Einsatzgruppen-Mass Murder of >2M Jews is absolutely unrealistic.
At that stage I had my first doubts.
According to orthodox historians, during WW II the Germans allegedly set up six so-called “extermination centers” in Poland (Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka) where millions of people allegedly perished in so-called “homicidal gas chambers.” The following historical facts exemplify what happens when each individual camp is looked at as a “holocaust within the holocaust” and is investigated by forensic experts. To begin your own investigation of the truth, first watch the fraudulent, cognitive illusion of the alleged Majdanek “holocaust” collapse before your very eyes.
* * * * *
The Majdanek death toll - a microcosm of the alleged “jewish holocaust of WW II”
1944 - 1.7 million
Source: First Majdanek Show Trial. Anklageschrift gegen Hermann Vogel und andere, 26. Oktober 1944, Archivum Panstwowego Muzeum na Majdanku, sygn. XX-1, p. 100.
1946 - 1.5 million
Source: Nuremberg Show Trial. IMT VII, p. 590.
1975 - 1.38 million
Source: Lucy Dawidowicz, The war against the jews - 1933-1945, Pelican Books, 1975, p. 191.
1991 - 360 thousand
Source: Rosh and Jäckel, Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, Hoffmann und Campe, 1991, p. 217.
1992 - 235 thousand
Source: Czeslaw Rajca, 'Problem liczby ofiar w obozie na Majdanku', in: Zeszyty Majdanka XIV, 1992, p. 127.
2005 - 78 thousand
Source: Tomasz Kranz, Research Director of the Majdanek State Museum, Gazeta Wyborcza, 12 / 23 / 2005.
THE TRUTH - 42,200
Source: The most up-to-date, comprehensive and authoritative research of this “holocaust within the holocaust” by Jürgen Graf and Carlo Mattogno. (See: Concentration Camp Majdanek - A Historical and Technical Study.)
* * * * *
It is a historical fact that over - 97.5% - of the fraudulently alleged Majdanek holocaust “proven” in the first Majdanek show trial didn’t happen; and not one person has ever been proven to have died via poison gas in a homicidal gas chamber at the camp - NOT ONE!
* * * * *
If everything that you’ve just learned about the fraudulent Majdanek “holocaust” is true - and it is - then what do you think you will discover when you investigate the other 5 so-called “extermination centers?”
I did investigate the other camps and discovered they were even bigger hoaxes than Majdanek. I also discovered:
It is a historical fact that not one of the fraudulently alleged “mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor
and Treblinka has ever been proven to contain so much as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies.
That and the fact that I could never figure out the "jewish math". Their numbers never added up. No matter how many times the numbers at Auschwitz were lowered the "magical number" still stayed at 6 million.
They would come out with statements about how many died in 4 or 5 camps and they would be so close to 6 million you had to wonder if anyone at all died in any of the other camps.
6,000,000 - 2,500,000 = 6,000,000 no matter how you slice it...
Who controls the present controls the past.
Clem wrote:For me it was first learning of the 3 million reduction of the death toll at Auschwitz but no concomitant reduction to the sacred 6 million figure.
What person said that 4 million died at Auschwitz and 6 million died overall?
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], madhatter and 12 guests