What made you first question the holocaust?

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Hannover
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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:16 pm)

mdmguyon wrote:What person said that 4 million died at Auschwitz and 6 million died overall?

The Auschwitz 'historians' in charge of the Auschwitz Theme Park did. They had to approve it, it didn't just sprout up like a mushroom, here it is. They also tried to pass off a "reconstruction" of a 'gas chamber as being the real thing, but David Cole caught them on tape admitting that it was a "reconstruction".

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby mdmguyon » 7 years 5 months ago (Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:39 am)

Hannover wrote:
mdmguyon wrote:What person said that 4 million died at Auschwitz and 6 million died overall?

The Auschwitz 'historians' in charge of the Auschwitz Theme Park did.

What is your source for them saying that 6 million died overall? Did they give a breakdown of the other 2 million? Some people said that 4 million died at Auschwitz and some people said that 6 million died overall, but I'm not aware of anyone who said both.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby ganglere » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:42 pm)

Greetings ladies and gentlemen!

I guess that the first time I started thinking that something was not quite right, was the death sentence for Hermann Göring. I knew that he had started up the Gestapo, but most of the war he served as the chief of the Luftwaffe. It all seemed unfair, somehow.

However I accepted the orthodox narrative of the Holocaust, as it seemed to follow a logical development of events, starting with the Nuremberg laws of -35.

I also read about "Holocaust deniers", somewere in the eighties, and assumed that the general description of those was a correct one.

It was only when I started to look more thoroughly at the matter, that, figuratively, the walls started to fall down.

It was when I read the swedish translation of Jürgen Graf:s Der Holocaust auf dem Prüfstand – Augenzeugenberichte versus Naturgesetze that I so to speak, saw the light.

Since then, there has been no turning back, and I have compiled the essential points of Holocaust Revisionism, which I have spread among friends and openminded people in general, with surprisingly positive reactions.

All the Best! :D

Ganglere

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:32 pm)

ganglere wrote:Greetings ladies and gentlemen!

It was when I read the swedish translation of Jürgen Graf:s Der Holocaust auf dem Prüfstand – Augenzeugenberichte versus Naturgesetze that I so to speak, saw the light.

Since then, there has been no turning back, and I have compiled the essential points of Holocaust Revisionism, which I have spread among friends and openminded people in general, with surprisingly positive reactions.

All the Best! :D

Ganglere


Hej och välkommen!

Could you start a thread with your essential points? The rest of us could perhaps suggest additions or changes, but a number of people have commented in various threads that we very much need such a document. Something quick and clear to read that we can refer enquirers to.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Hegwood » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:25 pm)

This following are some simple impossible statements in the USHMM website that were partially responsible for my questioning of the holocaust.
While trying to find out what holocaust deniers were foolish enough to deny, I came across the following descriptions of cremation operations in the Action Reinhardt camps. I initially dismissed these statements as just bad writing but never-the-less tried to find out what was really intended.

From http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005193 a description of Treblinka.

In late 1942 and 1943, the Jewish forced laborers had to exhume the already buried bodies and burn them in huge trenches on makeshift “ovens” made of rail track.


From http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005191 a description of Belzec.

In October 1942, on orders from Lublin, German SS and police personnel, using groups of Jewish forced laborers rounded up from various locations in Lublin District, began to exhume the mass graves at Belzec and burn the bodies on open-air “ovens” made from rail track.


From http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005192 a description of Sobibor.

In the autumn of 1942, on orders from Lublin, German SS and police personnel, using Jewish forced laborers selected from arriving transports, began to exhume the mass graves at Sobibor and to burn the bodies on open-air “ovens” made from rail track.


These statements could not be true. An oven is a enclosure, usually box like, made of insulating material to contain heat. Neither the rails nor the cross ties of a railroad would be of any use in making anything resembling an oven not even an oven as qualified by putting the word in quotes. Furthermore the term “open air “oven”” is self contradicting, an oven has to be an enclosure.

What I found was an attempt to gloss over even bigger lies, namely an attempt to imply that these camps had some type of crematory ovens to dispose of the corpses of holocaust victims. In reality the eye witness accounts claim the bodies were simply set on fire. They burned on their own, a physical impossibility.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby The Warden » 7 years 5 months ago (Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:30 pm)

In fairness, those refer to open air pyres, which have been debated for years.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:24 pm)

mdmguyon wrote:What is your source for them saying that 6 million died overall? Did they give a breakdown of the other 2 million? Some people said that 4 million died at Auschwitz and some people said that 6 million died overall, but I'm not aware of anyone who said both.

BTW, the 4M number was initially established as 'fact' by the Allies during the Nuremberg Show Trials.
So then, you are saying that from Nuremberg until mid 1990, when the plaque was changed, no one was claiming 6M overall. Are you serious?
I suggest you consult the Nuremberg records as to the other 2M. I'm sure you'll find another great example of 'holocaust' math that makes no sense. I'm also sure you'll enjoy reading the proven-at-Nuremberg 'fact' that Jews were killed enmasse in steam chambers at Treblinka, complete with a detailed forensic report.

This is too easy

But we're off topic.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Hegwood » 7 years 5 months ago (Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:31 pm)

Warden,

The topic question is "What made you you question the holocaust?". As the reader that's me.

The USHMM writers went out of their way to use the term "oven", not "pyre". The statements describe impossible constructions and events whether they have been discussed before or not.

My thought when originally reading the statements were "The only part of a railroad that would be of use in cremating bodies would be the cross-ties. They could be burned as fuel. But it would take many miles of railroad to provide enough fuel to cremate hundreds of thousands of human corpses."

Upon further reflexion 3 or 4 ties per body would be required which equates to perhaps 10 feet of track per body or 5,000,000 feet for railroad for 500,000 bodies. That is almost a thousand miles of railroad. Not likely!!

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby glimmande » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:48 am)

Would say it started around when "Forum för levande historia" - "forum for keeping history alive" was established 1997 (swedish holocaust museum http://www.levandehistoria.se/) on tax payer money, together with a swedish government funded jewish nationalist think tank called Paidea that's mostly interested in open borders to the third world, antisemitism and jewish identity. My scepticism grew when I read Finkelsteins book The Holocaust Industry a couple of years later. In an interview he said that he considered the swedish moves to be smart since it proactively helped to avoid similar money making rackets that Switzerland suffered in the end of the nineties.

Around then I was very sceptical although the subject never really interested me that much, so I never cared to delve into it. My scepticism was part due to the murkiness of the whole subject (information overkill, multiple camps, jumping back and forth, emotion-based historiography, same thing/story happening in different camps, etc) and a general understanding of the lies perpertuating around quite many other conflicts (Jugoslavia, NATO-bombings of Serbia and the propaganda around that, first Iraq war etc) and also the massive overcounting of dead in for example the Soviet gulag system (1990ties estimates of below two million compared with tens of millions in popular literature).

Around five-six years later I started to get seriously annoyed that the holocaust narrative is constantly repeated and that it's always kept on an emotional level. I was also annoyed about experiences from one swedish forum that host a revisionism-subforum. The high content posts were always from revisionists and was constantly countered by the weirdest forum creatures imaginable. People apparently sitting there 24/7 writing in their minds debunking posts consisting of nothing but character assassinations and insults. Something I had ample experience of (sweden has the most liberal immigration laws in the western world by far, other topic although similar "debate" climate) from other areas and a sure sign something is awry.

I read up on the area and figured out that my strong suspicions from earlier years were essentially correct. Don't consider myself a revisionist since I don't do any research. More of a much stronger believer in the revisionist case than the official story line. WWII and the holocaust is the foundational principle for two states (founding myth of both Germany and Israel) and the hero narrative of both USA and Russia. It's based on lies but it's awfully hard to correct since it threatens the legitimacy of quite powerful states and those are always more interested in the status quo than anything else.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby mincuo » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:47 pm)

My doubts were nothing special. I knew that all the history learned in the school is like that, more or less. Not only the Holocaust. You have a lot of heroes, battles, white horses, kings and queens with their crowns and splendid garments. The wars were always fought for "principles" right or wrong, but never for economics, or geopolitics, and never to seize gold, silver, lead, wheat...
The society is never painted as real. Take for example the Romans. In the schoolbooks they lived in the "domus". Really very few lived there, they lived in the "insulae", six-eight-storey houses. They ate lying on "the triclinium" tell the books, but very few really. They ate sitting on benches with a table. And so on. I saw therefore that even the small things are hidden, just to make all suspended, in a sort of fairy tale, valid for everything and every period. Only you have to change the name of the white horse and the king.
I had to add only that the more is near to you the period, the worse is the official history, and that the winners are those who write the books. Holocaust was only one of the fairy tales, for me.
Beati monoculi in terra caecorum

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby SevenUp » 7 years 5 months ago (Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:32 am)

I was anti-Jewish long before I questioned the holohoax. It probably started when I read, long ago, Chomsky's 'The Fateful Triangle' about the Israel/Palestine problem. Then I was an engineer in the aerospace industry faithfully working on weapons, actually delivery systems, that will destroy civilization, while my counterparts in Russia were doing the same thing, and when every cultural exchange was greeted in the US by Jews protesting against Russia's treatment of Jews. Then, once I was traveling and saw an exhibit about Anne Frank, with all the photos of her house and the tales of her suffering, while of course not a word about the suffering of Palestinian children. The chutzpah to me was astounding. Then, to seal the deal I read, again long ago, Paul Findley's 'They Dare to Speak Out', about US politicians that had been retired from the US congress by AIPAC for opposing Israel's interests, the list included some familiar names, like Paul McCloskey, Charles Percy, William Fullbright, as well as Findley. Then, there was the Lieberman VP nomination, which stunned me. I read Shahak's 'Three Thousand Years of Jewish History' and I was aghast.

Also, in the late 90s I had by chance been in Lublin? and visited Majdanek. I remember then even then I had some questions about the 'gas chambers' and wanted to see one. I did not know that Majdanek was one of the two camps where actual hoax gas chambers exist. I do remember that even as a kid I did register some cognitive dissonance when I saw the photos of the dead prisoners, because I realized that there emaciated condition was not consistent with death by gassing. But, I did not think about this any further. In any case, I visited Majdanek on a Sunday and it did not appear to me that there was anything resembling a gas chamber there. I was told, then or later, that the hoax gas chamber was closed because it was Sunday.


The Lieberman campaign, and the internet, prompted quite a bit of interest in the Jews. I chanced on a post in alt.politics I believe where someone claimed that the plaque at the entrance to Auschwitz had been changed from stating that 4 million died there to reading that 1.5 million had died there. That post was followed by the usual (I now realize) insulting tripe from the Zionists. I realized that this was a simple matter of fact, had the sign been changed or not, and that I could discover if it was true or not. So, after a day or so I suppose I had found pictures of both signs. This is what piqued my curiosity. I did not think there was a ghost of a chance that the holohoax was not real, but I decided to investigate. I did investigate for a few months, reading and 'debating' on the internet. I was uncertain, and I realized that my mind did not like uncertainty. And I realized that one side or the other was systematically lying. Cole's vid was pivotal for me.

Now, unlike Mark Weber, I think the holohoax is the Jews' Achilles heel, if they have one. The hoax is preposterous and blatant, this is where a tear in the imaginary reality that the 'establishment' has created for us is most easily visible.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby DarkPlaces » 7 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:13 am)

I am a Chinese immigrant who grew up in a very white part of Canada. I was the only person of Asian descent in my school. In grade school, when we learned about WWII, I would go home to my mother and she would tell me a different story: the story of my people. She said, "You know, we were victims in WWII, too. The Japanese were worse to us than Nazis were to the Jews."

At first I questioned my mom. I was even offended on behalf of Jewish people, whom I had never even met because this small town did not have a Jewish population whatsoever. If what she said were true, why would my teachers act as though the only victims of WWII were these elusive Jews? Why were we forced to read The Diary of Anne Frank? Why were we also forced to watch a play based on that drivel? Despite having no-one of Jewish heritage in our classroom, we were being bombarded with Jewish propaganda.

The questions burned even hotter as I grew older. I learned about the German people and I came to admire them. It seemed to me that they were very cultured and sophisticated, and every German person I met was polite and intelligent. How could these people commit such atrocities? They aren't cruel or barbaric at all. I started to research the most obvious yet most heavily avoided question of all: what did the Jews do to the Germans before WWII? Answers like "Hitler was a bloodthirsty madman" and "Hitler was racist" I ignored right off the bat. That's just name-calling; it does not explain the root of the problem. People do not just wake up one day and decide, let's slaughter an entire race of people, without provocation. It didn't take very long to see that the whole of Europe had a "Jewish problem" before WWII. Just as we have a problem with Goldman Sachs and the now defunct Lehman Brothers. There is a certain parasite in our world that profiteers off of other people's losses, that gets rich when we come upon hard times. Nobody, not then and not now, NOBODY likes a leech.

How did I come to realize that the Holocaust was a fraud? I read the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. In their story, the Jews are portrayed as slaves of the Egyptians. They made a plan to escape, held the first Passover feast, and then their "God" came down and slew all Egyptian firstborn. Sounds kind of ludicrous, doesn't it? Even Jewish scholars admit, after being disproved by archaeologists, that this story is a FABRICATION. And yet, the Jews still celebrate Passover every year, as a way to rekindle their hatred for Arabs, or whatever society they feel oppresses them. After understanding that the Jews have been playing victim since Biblical times, it made perfect sense to me that they would lie about their mass genocide in the 20th century.

Without a doubt, people died in WWII, and without a doubt, some of them were Jews. But 6 million of them being Jews? No. In the chaos of war, what could stop a handful of sneaky Jews from tallying up the bodies of non-Jews and listing them as Jewish deceased? It was in their best interest to do so. It is also in their nature to make a pact with each other, that if they survive the camps, they will tell the whole world that 6 million died. The number was predetermined amongst the Jewish community. They are very close-knit regardless of what country they reside in, and they will uphold lies together as long as it's good for the Jewish cause.

What we are being told is "The Big Lie." It works, and Hitler knew it worked, because the Jews have been masters of it for millennia. "Tell a lie so colossal that no-one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Nessie » 7 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:52 am)

Reading a debate where the question was asked "name one Jew gassed in a chamber" and it became clear that question could not be answered. I was frankly amazed and very angry that such a simple question could not be answered from orthodox history. So I read more and found that much about the Holocaust as portrayed in film and basic histories is either wrong or based on minimal evidence. I have since spent time discussing the Holocaust with deniers/revisionists and belivers and now want to go into more depth on the topic.

I also think it is a travesty that Holocaust denial/revisionism is illegal anywhere. No subject should be banned from study and discussion.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby Alpha » 7 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:29 pm)

David Cole helped me to start questioning and stop believing in the holocaust.

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Re: What made you first question the holocaust?

Postby truth » 7 years 4 months ago (Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:10 pm)

It was the war on Libya which made me understand the lie. I figured, if they destroy such a nice country just like that, based on lies, than all other wars and history itself must be based on a lie. History seems to be written by those who win the war (whoever it is). I cannot help but wonder now, how can I myself live a honest life if all there is is lies, lies and lies everywhere. Our entire social system is a lie. Countries are corporation owned often by the Federal Reserve (Germany is a corporation and so is apparently the US). The entire democratic process is a hoax.

I don't want to partake in these lies and live a honest life based on truth, integrity and true humanity. I think we need to develop a new socio economic system entirely.

Also, many many millions German people have been murdered between 1945 and 1948 after the war by the allies, more than the entire ww2 combined. Hence, Germans are not allowed to grieve all the civilians either, which is not right. I suspect that the allies committed such horrible crimes in Germany that they need the construction of a Holocaust to cover up their own darkness. The Jewish may need the Holocaust to fulfill their self-fulfilling prophecies about the coming messiah and they are into numbers like 6 Millions, etc. because the Holocaust is part of a seemingly very dogmatic believe system in which humanity needs to be reduced to 500.000 Million people all organized and guided by the chosen people (so an apocalypse seems to be part of these crazy plan and that worries me). All interest groups have not done their own homework in regards of resolving their own historical and personal dark side. This too should be investigated and explored more. I am here to learn. I am not an expert in war and Holocaust. I only know that we still do not treat each other well enough as humans. I want to be open to all beings and listen and learn in an open manner. Anyway, something is wrong with the history of Germany and I want to resolve this a bit for humanitarian sake and justice alone.

Also, I find it weird, that the US has this huge Holocaust Museum, as a capitalistic enterprise, but no Museum about the many many Million of American Indians they brutally slaughtered. Why do they care about the history of Europe and not their own? Is this a form of racism? I don't understand why people don't clean under their own rug or look at their own elephant in the living room?

Yes! It's because of the war in Libya that I got such a shock that suddenly I became a bit clairvoyant about history. I know clearly from deep within that something is very very wrong in regards to the German history and we need to speak up louder and bolder for the sake of justice. We need to stick with the evidence alone in regards to history and not to religion and political ideologies.

Against the double standards and hypocrisies, develop true human values. And, there are NO CHOSEN PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ALL ARE DEFINITELY CHOSEN PEOPLE - Oh YES.


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