Eichmann tapes

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hans » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:47 pm)

stefanob wrote:Eichmann says that he never saw an Auschwitz gas chamber, and the only actual mass murder evedences he saw are extremely unlikely, because he talks about charred bodies.


While Eichmann was as usual playing down is own involvement, the statement is affirmative to the existence of homicidal gas-chambers and homicidal gassings:

I never had anything directly to do with the gas chambers, which evolved from early measures like those at Litzmannstadt. But I did visit Auschwitz repeatedly. It had an unpleasant smell. Even today I do not know how the gassing was carried out. I never watched the entire process. Even a man like Hoess, the commandant at Auschwitz, described the matter to me in a rather rose-colored way.


If it is true what Eichmann was saying here, it is clear that homicidal gassings were carried out in Auschwitz.

But more detailed is his description of the homicidal gassing in Chelmno:

Later in that same winter Müller sent me to watch Jews being gassed in the Litzmannstadt [Lodz] area of central Poland. I must stress that the gassing was not done on his orders, but Müller did want to know about it. He was a very thorough government official.

Arriving at Litzmannstadt, I drove out to the designated place where a thousand Jews were about to board buses. The buses were normal, high-windowed affairs with all their windows closed. During the trip, I was told, the carbon monoxide from the exhaust pipe was conducted into the interior of the buses. It was intended to kill the passengers immediately.

A doctor who was there suggested that I look at the people inside one bus through a peephole in the driver's seat. I refused. I couldn't look. This was the first time that I had seen and heard such a thing and my knees were buckling under me. I had been told that the whole process took only three minutes, but the buses rode along for about a quarter of an hour.


The same description Eichmann gave in the manuscript Götzen he wrote in Israeli prison. The interesting thing is that both the Sassen-interviews and the manuscript Götzen contain elements of denial and relativization of the Holocaust, yet they both confirm the fact of homicidal gassings. So let aside that both sources can be traced back to Eichmann, it appears also unlikely they were fabricated to provide false evidence for the Holocaust.
Last edited by Hans on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hans » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:55 pm)

polishheritage wrote:Many people here have already answered your questions and thoroughly refuted you, but let me give you a little more information on this already addressed topic. !


This has been adressed already here:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/01/eichmann-testimonies-part-2.html

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hans » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:01 pm)

Hannover wrote:The Eichmann tapes are old news for Revisionists, they have handled them with ease, as usual. Here's some of my earlier posts on the matter.
Hannover wrote:Additional info. about Eichmann.

Here is some critical information about Eichmann which I have taken from some of my previous posts on the subject.

The alleged Sassen recordings have never been released for scrutiny. Why not? Why should we believe edited and alleged excerpts that were printed in Life magazine but the alleged tapes never released. What are they hiding?



This has been already answered in a blog posting by Jonathan Harrison:

This is baloney. The Sassen tapes are held in the Bundesarchiv Koblenz and have been heard in full by at least one historian, Imtrud Wojak. The transcripts were owned by individuals with pro-Nazi and/or pro-Eichmann leanings: Sassen himself, Eichmann's widow and Aschenauer; the latter published a biased, edited version here. Once again, H. and sources (even secondary ones) are total strangers.


[Edit: Corrected author of blog posting]
Last edited by Hans on Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hans » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:49 pm)

Hannover wrote:and this gem from yours truly:

Eichmann claims being ordered to go to Lemberg:
"There had been a pit there, it was already filled in, and blood was gushing out of it...how shall I say?...like a geyser. I've never seen anything like it. I'd had enough of that mission".

Gee, where did he get that from ?



Wiesel's book was published in 1982, Eichmann's statement is from pre-trial interrogation so must be around 1960/61. Perhaps you can enlight us, how a statement from 1960/61 can be taken from a book of 1982?

What Eichmann is describing here somewhat oversubscribed is probably some gas eruption from a massgrave caused by the decomposition of corpses.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby proxyserver » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:07 pm)

Hans wrote:The existence of those recordings is well known and reworked extracts of the interviews were already published in 1960 in LIFE and Stern magazines:

http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/trials/profiles/confession.html

Some studys on Eichmann cite directly from the recordings and also a short recording has been posted at youtube, where Eichmann says if the 10.3 Million European Jews listed in Korherr report had been killed, they would have fulfilled their task:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwoS1WN8MKM

All in all those interviews are not so nice for Revisionism, especially since they were not conducted by investigators or a Jew (buhh!) but by a National Socialist himself and while Eichmann was in freedom.


Hans, I think the point is, that, assuming that Eichmann was a very intelligent person, there would be no actual financial gain for either him or his family for his postulating a revisionist perspective, as it probably would not be allowed to be published, and so it is would be necessary for him to postulate an exterminationist perspective, whether true or not. As it is, Hans, I would be very interested in obtaining an English translation, in text form (i.e., a book), of the supposed confessions of Eichmann when he was in Israeli captivity, along the same lines of the "confessions" of Rudolf Hoss, and I wonder if you could help me in this matter, since I have searched Google in vain, and can only find a phonographic (or some type of audio) edition.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Kageki » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:13 pm)

Eichmann couldn't remember whether he was in the bus or riding behind it. It's more absurdities.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:45 pm)

Hans quotes Robterto Muehlenkamp:
This is baloney. The Sassen tapes are held in the Bundesarchiv Koblenz and have been heard in full by at least one historian, Imtrud Wojak. The transcripts were owned by individuals with pro-Nazi and/or pro-Eichmann leanings: Sassen himself, Eichmann's widow and Aschenauer; the latter published a biased, edited version here. Once again, H. and sources (even secondary ones) are total strangers.

"At least one historian". One whole "historian"? Wow, how impressive, is this a joke? So why haven't they been 'heard in full' by more than one "historian"? Sounds to me like this 'Bundesarchiv Koblenz' doesn't want the full text known to anyone but this ONE "historian", if that can even be believed, coming from the likes of Muehlenkamp.

My question remains, why can't the world actually listen to these tapes?

Speaking of baloney, here's what has happened to Hans's good buddy, Roberto Muehlenkamp, when he posted here.
for Roberto Muehlenkamps, aka 'Cortavagatas:

follow this mercifully short thread from the former CODOH bbs:
http://forum.codoh.com/codoh/493.html

'gas chambers' were hosed down, so no cyanide'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3706

'Those Prussian Blues Just Won't Wash'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4600

'Roberto Muehlenkamp: no fuel required for Auschwitz ovens'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3703

'Roberto Muehlenkamp shredded on 'gassings' & cyanide'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=224

'Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=420

'Cremation patent & 3.5 kg of coke per corpse debunked'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=88


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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:23 pm)

Hans says:
Wiesel's book was published in 1982, Eichmann's statement is from pre-trial interrogation so must be around 1960/61. Perhaps you can enlight us, how a statement from 1960/61 can be taken from a book of 1982?

What Eichmann is describing here somewhat oversubscribed is probably some gas eruption from a massgrave caused by the decomposition of corpses.

Somebody copied somebody, that's for sure. Or, I guess it's just coincidence then.

Hans, do you really think two individuals just came up with 'graves with geysers of blood' on their own?

Then you said Eichmann confirmed the alleged 'homicidal gas chambers'. Using your same pretzel logic he and Wiesel confirmed 'graves with geysers of blood'.

Hans, you quote:
I never had anything directly to do with the gas chambers, which evolved from early measures like those at Litzmannstadt. But I did visit Auschwitz repeatedly. It had an unpleasant smell. Even today I do not know how the gassing was carried out. I never watched the entire process. Even a man like Hoess, the commandant at Auschwitz, described the matter to me in a rather rose-colored way.

Eichmann confirmed nothing of the sort. Eichmann describes what Hoess supposedly said as "rose-colored".

Eichmann states "Even today I do not know how the gassing was carried out. I never watched the entire process".

So, how would Eichmann 'smell' an alleged gassing at Auschwitz, Hans? A laughable confirmation indeed.

And considering we all know how Hoess was forced to say and write whatever his captors wished, and the Israeli's certainly made Eichmann aware of at least part of Hoess's "confessions" (acquired via torture). Not to mention the utter scientific impossibility of the alleged Auschwitz 'gas chambers'. You call that a confirmation of the alleged gas chambers?

Anyone know exactly how long Eichmann was held in solitary confinement?

One must want to believe in the 'holocaust' as alleged in order to believe in the 'holocaust' as alleged.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:35 pm)

Hans says Eichmann mentions the absurd 'gas vans / buses', that were obviously put in Eichmann's ear by the Israelis. This is so yesterday's newspaper, here's a brief list of posts which dispense with the laughable notion of 'gas vans':



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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby polishheritage » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:08 pm)

Hans wrote:
polishheritage wrote:Many people here have already answered your questions and thoroughly refuted you, but let me give you a little more information on this already addressed topic. !


This has been adressed already here:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/01/eichmann-testimonies-part-2.html


This article does nothing to refute even the words of "mainline" historian Christopher Browning: http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vppgsym.html

Even Browning’s colleagues, the mainstream historians of the Final Solution, are very skeptical about Eichmann’s testimonials, for he admitted:
When I [Browning] have suggested to my colleagues that we must take seriously Eichmann's repeated testimony to the effect that he learned from Heydrich in the fall of 1941 of Hitler's order for the physical destruction of the Jews, I have met with either embarrassed silence or open skepticism. How can I be so gullible? Don't I know that Eichmann's testimony is a useless conglomeration of faulty memories on the one hand and calculated lies for legal defense and self-justification on the other? From it we can learn nothing of value about what actually happened during the war, only about Eichmann's state of mind after the war. These are documents that reveal how Eichmann wished to be remembered, not what he did [pp. 4-5].


In 2003, Browning concluded:
Clearly, anyone who wants to dismiss Eichmann’s testimonies on the grounds of their demonstrated unreliability and shameless self-serving lies can easily do so, and many of my colleagues have done precisely this [p.11].

So basically what holohoax people are saying is "yeah we know Eichmann's testimony is full of holes and contradictions but we still want to use it". So basically all you have is a confirmed liar, who can be completely ignored in his "precapture testimony" and was obviously tortured in his postcapture "testimony" in the Zionist entity.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby The Warden » 8 years 11 months ago (Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:36 am)

Hans wrote:While Eichmann was as usual playing down is own involvement, the statement is affirmative to the existence of homicidal gas-chambers and homicidal gassings:


The previous posts from Hannover and nathan show exactly the opposite. Eichmann wasn't downplaying his involvement at all. If anything, he was trying to make it sound like he was more involved than the people who supposedly "told him" about these things. According to you, one minute he's saying "If WE killed the Jews reported by Korherr...", the next you're saying he claims he couldn't watch and didn't participate in the process. Which is it?

Hans wrote:If it is true what Eichmann was saying here, it is clear that homicidal gassings were carried out in Auschwitz.


Completely off base. Let's look at the quote line by line...

I never had anything directly to do with the gas chambers, which evolved from early measures like those at Litzmannstadt.

Perhaps he didn't have anything to do with them because they weren't there!
And how does he know they "evolved" when he had nothing to do with them?

But I did visit Auschwitz repeatedly. It had an unpleasant smell.

Well there you have it! Proof of the Holocaust! A bad smell at a place he visited! :lol:
Seriously, that smell could've been anything from waste water to the water table rising during summer to the piles of shoes we see Believers use as proof.

Even today I do not know how the gassing was carried out.

Because they weren't carried out.

I never watched the entire process.

Because it wasn't happening.
What part of the process is he claiming to witness anyway?
The "selection"? Laughable.
What's next? He saw Jews in the camps, so that's proof they were killing them?
Maybe if you had Eichmann saying he wore a gas mask and pulled Jews out of the alleged designated rooms, you could make a case, but you don't.
All you have is a guy who sounds exactly as if someone told him "We're going with stories about gas chambers, and we need you to agree, but don't go into detail".

Even a man like Hoess, the commandant at Auschwitz, described the matter to me in a rather rose-colored way.

Yes, all day long with this "told me" and "described".
Yet he "wasn't involved", "didn't watch", "didn't know how it worked", etc.

For someone who was allegedly involved in wiping out the Jewish people in Europe, a practice that Hans insists was happening based on nothing more than hearsay but seems to be the foundation of all thing Holocaust, he never really did much of anything or even saw anything. Why is it that everyone seemed to "describe" things to him, but he can't seem to "describe" much of anything?




Hans wrote:But more detailed is his description of the homicidal gassing in Chelmno:


Later in that same winter Müller sent me to watch Jews being gassed in the Litzmannstadt [Lodz] area of central Poland.


You mean the same gassings that he can't describe? And couldn't watch?
Nonsense.

I must stress that the gassing was not done on his orders, but Müller did want to know about it. He was a very thorough government official.


Is this more "downplaying", Hans? Because it certainly seems like he knows who's giving orders all of a sudden.
And he even knows what other officers "want to know"!

But we do have more solid proof of the Holocaust right here...
Someone was "thorough"!

A revelation indeed. :?

Arriving at Litzmannstadt, I drove out to the designated place where a thousand Jews were about to board buses. The buses were normal, high-windowed affairs with all their windows closed. During the trip, I was told, the carbon monoxide from the exhaust pipe was conducted into the interior of the buses. It was intended to kill the passengers immediately.


There it is! He saw Jews in the camps! lol.
Just to lock things up, he also witnessed buses, which he could describe in great detail! At least, the outside of the buses.
Much like someone who toured the camp on occasion and happened to notice a bus used for transport on one of his trips and used this image due to a lack of any other information.

Obviously, more solid proof of a Holocaust, right Hans? lol

And notice yet another "I was told".
That seems to be commonplace with all this Holocaust nonsense, but no one seems to be the ones who actually performed these fables.
Weird.

Not only that, but Eichmann seems to be "downplaying" his role again by knowing the amount of time the prisoners would be killed.
Or is that another contradiction?
Based on a little something called "hearsay" in any modern day courtroom which would be stricken from the record immediately.

A doctor who was there suggested that I look at the people inside one bus through a peephole in the driver's seat. I refused. I couldn't look.


But he didn't!
More hearsay.

Or maybe he couldn't look because there were no gassings!
The simple solution is always the best.

This was the first time that I had seen and heard such a thing and my knees were buckling under me. I had been told that the whole process took only three minutes, but the buses rode along for about a quarter of an hour.


Buckling knees? From what? He didn't look at anything, he didn't know how anything worked, and he was supposedly downplaying.

Unbelievable.
Literally.

Hans wrote:The same description Eichmann gave in the manuscript Götzen he wrote in Israeli prison. The interesting thing is that both the Sassen-interviews and the manuscript Götzen contain elements of denial and relativization of the Holocaust, yet they both confirm the fact of homicidal gassings. So let aside that both sources can be traced back to Eichmann, it appears also unlikely they were fabricated to provide false evidence for the Holocaust.


What facts? Hearsay from a guy who apparently mimicked the "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" monkeys?

No, I don't think so.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby nathan » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:03 pm)

Hans informs us:

The Sassen tapes are held in the Bundesarchiv Koblenz and have been heard in full by at least one historian, Imtrud Wojak.


Imtrud Wojak must be she who interrupted and thereby edited the Youtube money quote about the 10,3 million. Apparently Dr Wojak was allowed to hear these tapes back in 2000 in order to compare them with the copy of the transcripts still held in Israel - to which she also had privileged access. Wojak was Fritz Bauer’s biographer and for some years has been deputy director of the Fritz-Bauer Institute in Frankfurt. She is a very respectable person. Unrespectable persons may have to wait longer before we can examine an exact transcript of these tapes. I saw in yesterday’s Jerusalem Post that Dr Wojack is at the moment in Israel, where the fiftieth anniversary of the 1961 trial is to be marked.


Audio recordings and an Israeli transcript of interviews – previously held under lock and key – with Adolf Eichmann, one of the main architects of the Holocaust, have surfaced.

Wojak’s groundbreaking research in Israel and Germany during 1999-2000 resulted in a comparison of audiotape interviews with Eichmann and a transcript of the interviews located in the Israeli state archive.....

Eichmann “did not hide his anti-Semitism” in the interviews, and talked about “transporting Jews to the slaughter,” said Dr. Irmtrud Wojak, founding director of the Munich Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism, during an interview with The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday


Some student of Wojak's work might be able to tell us how many of the legendary sixty-seven original tapes survived. Possibly the rest of Wojak’s TV show has been accessibly archived, in the way the BBC archives some of it serious programmes. Do we have any Dutch readers?.

Hans link to the Life Magazine article seems more complete than the popular online version from which I drew the quotation given in my previous post. That version does not include a remark I had never seen before:

After the war the Auschwitzers sprouted like mushrooms out of the forest floor after a rain. Hundreds of thousands of them are today in the best of health


This makes more sense of the claim he made in another Auschwitz section that “statistics” told against the use of Poison Gas

As far as I can gather, there seem to be at least 8 possible sources of quotations from Eichmann


Testimonies written (but not published) before his Capture in May 1960:

1 The surviving tapes of the Eichmann 1957 interview with Willem Sassen
2 Sassen’s 1957 transcript of these tapes - and presumably of some which did not survive - along with handwritten corrections by Eichmann himself
3 Extracts worked from this transcript published in Life Magazine in November 1960
4 The posthumous published memoir I, Adolf Eichmann, edited by Aschenauer, and apparently based on the Sassen transcripts


In captivity:

5 His Courtroom testimony
6 his pre-trial interrogations, sometimes confronting what was probably the 1957 transcript
7 His handwritten book My Memoirs
8 His Defence Notes prepared for his counsel Servatius

Those of us restricted to online sources can easily google the Jerusalem trial transcripts. Thanks to Hans we may have a reliable version of the Time Magazine article. I don’t know what other primary sources can be found online.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Blogbuster » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:29 pm)

Nathan,

I don't agree that HAN's sources are accurate and I find any links put forth from him to lack credibility.

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby nathan » 8 years 11 months ago (Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:58 am)

If any of Hans' information about sources for Eichmann is inaccurate, we need to know. Let Blogbuster specify these errors or stop trying to drive us off-topic. No dodging!

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Re: Eichmann tapes

Postby Hans » 8 years 11 months ago (Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:54 am)

nathan wrote: Possibly the rest of Wojak’s TV show has been accessibly archived, in the way the BBC archives some of it serious programmes. Do we have any Dutch readers?.




You can watch the Dutch documentary on Sassen and Eichmann here (thanks to Jonathan Harrison for the link):

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/kro/profiel/bb.20050511.asf

Note also the passage where Eichmann says that Höss told him he received the order for the mass gassing of Jews directly from the RSHA.


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