John Demjanjuk found guilty

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Charles Traynor
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John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Charles Traynor » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 8:44 am)

John Demjanjuk has been found guilty by a court in Munich and sentenced to five years imprisonment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12321549


This is a sad day for Germany and for all those who believe in fair play and justice. Five years is for all intents and purposes a death sentence for a man of Demjanjuk’s age and frailty.

The really sickening thing about this travesty is that the prosecutors had no solid evidence against Demjanjuk, and he was actually being prosecuted to keep the Holocaust Myth in the public eye.

The relatives of the dead, who were co-plaintiffs at the trial, were clearly satisfied with the verdict, although for some of them it was not the main aim, says the BBC's Stephen Evans at the court in Munich.

They wanted a court in Germany to hear the details of the machinery of industrial killing and to hear that history related in the city where the Nazi party was founded, our correspondent says.

[Emphasis mine]



Heartbreaking scenes showing brutal US immigration officers forcibly removing the frail 89 year old Mr. Demjanjuk from his family home. As far as I am concerned the loathsome creatures responsible for the persecution of this unfortunate man are the ones in need of some jail time. How many more innocent people must suffer before the Jewish madness and thirst for vengence is sated?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wrpGONvO_s
Last edited by Charles Traynor on Sun May 15, 2011 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rabbi Shlomo Risikin: "The [non-Jewish] world is divided into parts: those who actively participated with the Nazis and those who passively collaborated with them."

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Cloud » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 8:51 am)

I was just starting my own thread on this and you already posted it.

In a real trial, they would go back to the scene of the crime and comb it thoroughly for material traces. Here, all they had to do was dig up the ground and see what's really under there.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby The Warden » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 10:19 am)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110512/ap_ ... _demjanjuk

By DAVID RISING, Associated Press – 50 mins ago

MUNICH – Retired U.S. autoworker John Demjanjuk was convicted of thousands of counts of acting as an accessory to murder at a Nazi death camp and sentenced on Thursday to five years in prison, a groundbreaking verdict that closed one chapter in a decades-long legal battle.

Judges ordered him released pending appeal.

Demjanjuk was found guilty of 28,060 counts of being an accessory to murder, one for each person who died during the time he was ruled to have been a guard at the Sobibor camp in Nazi-occupied Poland.

Presiding Judge Ralph Alt said the 91-year-old was a piece of the Nazis' "machinery of destruction."

"The court is convinced that the defendant ... served as a guard at Sobibor from 27 March 1943 to mid September 1943," Alt said, closing a trial that has lasted nearly 18 months.

Demjanjuk sat in a wheelchair in front of the judges as they announced their verdict, but showed no reaction. He has denied the charges, but declined the opportunity to make a final statement to the court.

Demjanjuk's son, John Demjanjuk Jr., said the defense would appeal. He asserted that "the Germans have built a house of cards and it will not stand for long."

Alt later ordered that Demjanjuk be freed during his appeal — a process that is likely to take six months or more. Such a release is not unusual in Germany and Alt said Demjanjuk did not pose a flight risk because of his advanced age, poor health and the fact that the defendant, deported from the U.S. two years ago, is stateless.

Alt told The Associated Press that meant there were "no grounds" to hold him. "It's the law, and so it's justice," he added. "I say he's guilty but it's not a final verdict."

Demjanjuk is not allowed to leave Germany. Alt said that the issue of whether or not Demjanjuk died in a German jail had "nothing to do" with the decision.

Defense attorney Guenther Maull said it wasn't yet clear where Demjanjuk would go once he is freed, but he was likely to live with members of the Ukrainian community in Munich. The court noted that Demjanjuk, who suffers from a variety of ailments, needs daily medical attention.

Charges of accessory to murder carry a maximum term of 15 years in Germany, which does not allow consecutive sentences for multiple counts of the same crime.

There was no evidence that Demjanjuk committed a specific crime. The prosecution was based on the theory that if Demjanjuk was at the camp, he was a participant in the killing — the first time such a legal argument has been made in German courts.

Thomas Walther, who led the investigation that prompted Germany to prosecute Demjanjuk, said before the verdict that other low-ranking Nazi helpers could now face prosecution.

"It could be very soon that more are brought to the table," he said. "This case is a door-opener."

Integral to the prosecution's case was an SS identity card that allegedly shows a picture of a young Demjanjuk, and indicates he trained at the SS Trawniki camp and was posted to Sobibor.

Though court experts said the card appears genuine, the defense maintains it is a fake produced by the Soviet KGB.

The U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Special Investigations also has said the card is genuine, but documents unearthed by The Associated Press indicate that the FBI at one time had doubts similar to those aired by Demjanjuk's defense about the evidence — though the material was never turned over to them.

Rudolf Salomon Cortissos, whose mother was gassed at Sobibor along with thousands of other Dutch Jews, cried softly in a back row of the courtroom, wiping his tears with a white handkerchief, as Alt somberly read out the names of the brothers, sisters and parents of people who joined the trial as co-plaintiffs, as allowed under German law.

"It's very emotional — it doesn't happen every day," he said, adding that he was happy with the verdict and sentence. "For me it is satisfying," he said.

Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk has been stripped of his U.S. citizenship and has been in custody in Germany since his deportation two years ago.

Cornelius Nestler, a lawyer for co-plaintiffs, said he likely would serve three years at most, given the time he has already spent in German custody.

But he said he too was satisfied with the sentence, which came close to prosecutors' call for a six-year term. That call took into account the defendant's age, and time he already served in Israel in the 1980s.

The verdict won't entirely end more than 30 years of legal wrangling. Along with the German appeal, and legal proceedings continue in the United States.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's chief Nazi hunter, Efraim Zuroff, called the conviction "a very important victory for justice."

"The verdict sends a very powerful message that, even many years after the crimes of the Holocaust the perpetrators can be brought to justice," he said by telephone from Jerusalem. "We're hopeful that this verdict will pave the way for additional prosecutions in Germany."

Zuroff said later, however, that he was "very surprised" by the decision to free Demjanjuk pending the appeal.

"We don't think that that's appropriate given the heinous nature of his crimes," he said.

In the 1980s, Demjanjuk stood trial in Israel after he was accused of being the notoriously brutal guard "Ivan the Terrible" at the Treblinka extermination camp. He was convicted, sentenced to death — then freed when an Israeli court overturned the ruling, saying the evidence showed he was the victim of mistaken identity.

Demjanjuk (dem-YAHN'-yuk) maintains he was a victim of the Nazis — first wounded as a Soviet soldier fighting German forces, then captured and held as a prisoner of war under brutal conditions before joining the Vlasov Army, a force of anti-communist Soviet POWs and others was formed to fight with the Germans against the Soviets in the final months of the war.

Demjanjuk's son said in an E-mail to the AP that "my father has suffered as a result of German brutality for nearly 70 years."

But prosecutors said that after his capture, the evidence shows Demjanjuk agreed to serve the German SS and was posted to Sobibor in Nazi-occupied Poland.

Demjanjuk was accused of having served as a "Wachmann," a guard, the lowest rank of the "Hilfswillige" volunteers who were subordinate to German SS men.

In a 1985 report, the FBI's Cleveland, Ohio, field office concluded that: "Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB."

That revelation has led to new court action in the U.S., with a District Court judge in Cleveland on Tuesday agreeing to appoint a public defender to represent Demjanjuk there, raising the prospect of renewing the decades-old case.




Always nice to see the Jews railroading (pun intended) a 91 year old man to establish another 50 years of the victim industry. They'll stop at nothing to continue the flow of bricks on their foundation of lies and propaganda which enable their funding for Zionism.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 3:35 pm)

I've posted this before, but it bears repeating.

Let's assume (a thought experiment) that everything that is alleged about Demjanjuk, about the Holocaust and about Sobibor is true. What is then the moral difference between Demjanjuk, who helped murder Jews to save his own skin and Tomas Blatt who helped murder fellow-Jews to save his own skin, allegedly only temporarily? Is not Blatt's helping to murder his own people the worse crime? So why is Blatt a witness against Demjanjuk, and why does he have the world's sympathy?

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Ray Barren » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 4:41 pm)

I dont agree with attacks on Jews or Zionists that are posted in this thread, or in criticism of Jews forced to work at the camps, but the trial of Demjanjuk is justice gone to the extreme.

On the other side of coin, had the trial either not been conducted or had he been found innocent then revisionists would be celebrating it as proof of no Holocaust.
I am new to the Holocaust debate because I never knew anyone who questioned the event in history. Here for good and free exchange of ideas on Holocaust.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Hannover » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu May 12, 2011 6:47 pm)

Ray Barren wrote:I dont agree with attacks on Jews or Zionists that are posted in this thread, or in criticism of Jews forced to work at the camps, but the trial of Demjanjuk is justice gone to the extreme.

On the other side of coin, had the trial either not been conducted or had he been found innocent then revisionists would be celebrating it as proof of no Holocaust.

Say what? Revisionists had never heard of John Demjanjuk before this show trial farce.

And notice that Ray Barren calls criticism of Jews and Zionists "attacks" while ignoring the constant attacks on Christians and those that scrutinize the utter absurdity of the 'holocaust' as alleged. In fact, the 'holocaust' story is nothing short of a racist hate attack upon the goyim. Jewish supremacist / apartheid Zionist double standards abound.

Hey Ray, start a thread and tell us how the alleged 'gas chambers' supposedly worked. Here's your chance.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Jazz » 8 years 5 months ago (Fri May 13, 2011 4:40 am)

Nicely said Hannover.
I feel so sorry for John Demjanjuk and his family, being found guilty to a crime he didn't even commit. What a messed up world we live in.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby grettir » 8 years 5 months ago (Fri May 13, 2011 6:23 am)

This very sad. I wonder how many of Mr Demjanjuk's persecutors really believe the rubbish they spout. Maybe just more payback for the ridiculously exaggerated Kishinev pogrom.
And even had the man once done anything, how stupid it is to imagine that he is the same man he was seventy years ago.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 5 months ago (Fri May 13, 2011 10:15 am)

@ Ray

So, assuming etc., why is Blatt considered a victim rather than being also in the dock? Is it one law for Jews and another for Ukrainians?

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 5 months ago (Sat May 14, 2011 11:01 am)

Kingfisher wrote:@ Ray

So, assuming etc., why is Blatt considered a victim rather than being also in the dock? Is it one law for Jews and another for Ukrainians?


This very issue is getting some traction, I heard it on Jewish radio today.

First, the true answer - when it comes to dealing with the goyim, there are no laws for the Jews. Their contempt is total.

There is a radio station in NYC, 970 am, that features Curtis Sliwa, the Guardian Angles guy, as a drivetime talk guy, and he is incredible, New York personified, so I listen to the station. They also have a lineup of rightwing/Jewish hate jocks .... Dennis Miller, some others.

Today I turned on the radio to hear Jeffrey Licthman, a Sat. guy I hadn't heard before, railing about how the Palestinians were vile animals, literally that's what he said .... and after I went to the PO I was clicking him off when he introduced Fred Dannon, I think it was, who started talking about a Del Vecchio, a NYC cop who had written a book about the mob in the 80's/90's and Lichtman was a lawyer who was up on the case, and Sliwa had interviewed Del Vechhio a few days ago, and I wanted to hear Dannon, so I listened.

After finishing with Del Vecchio, Licthman says he wants to discuss another topic, Demjanuk ! Dannon says there's a connection, that being police misconduct. He reviews the first Demjanuk case ! saying that Demjanuk had in fact never been in Treblinka, and that after he was convicted due to US police misconduct !, no mention of the lying Jewish 'eyewitnesses', he relates that he was released. Oh, Lichtman chimed in, this shows the magnanimity of the Israeli court. He points out that under Israeli law they could have convicted him of being a Sobibor guard, but, honest and considerate as they are, they declined to do so.

Then Dannon gets to the current case, he notes that there is no evidence that Demjanuk committed any crimes, but he was just there. A 'small fish'. Then he dispairs over the conviction, noting that it cuts too close to home, and that Elihu Rosenburg, a witness at the first Demjanuk trial, had been forced to throw sand under the gas chamber door (! that's exactly what he said, I ain't makin it up).

Further, Dejanuk is OUT on appeal. Dannon says he should have been given credit for time served. Lichtman seems to agree.

This publicity may be hurting the Jews.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby nathan » 8 years 5 months ago (Sat May 14, 2011 11:48 am)

Warden quotes from the BBC report:

Prosecutors had argued he was recruited by the Germans to be an SS camp guard and that by working at a death camp he was a participant in the killings. No evidence was produced that he committed a specific crime.

It was the first time such a legal argument was made in a German court.


Perhaps not quite the first time. Between 1947 and 1949 German courts could operate under Allied Control Council Law number 10 of December 45, which criminalised mere ‘membership in categories of a criminal group or organization declared criminal by the International Military Tribunal”..... and deemed anyone to have committed an crime, as a crime had been defined by the Tribunal, if he “was a member of any organisation or group connected with the commission of such a crime....”
Despite this sanction for collective punishment, I don’t myself happen to know of any postwar tribunal where any camp guard was explicitly gaoled by the Allies purely and simply because he had been a camp guard.

Be that as it may, when the Basic Law of 1949 replaced the laws of the Occupation, I had understood that older principles of natural justice had been restored. Article20 of the Grundgesetz says that the punishment must be proportionate to the individual guilt of the offender. His individual guilt has therefore to be measured. Orthodoxy’s grievance against the 1964 Auschwitz trial, as expressed by Rebecca Widman and others, was precisely that the restored Penal Code required the prosecution to prove the "subjective motivation and individual initiative” for specific crimes. Those who carried out orders reluctantly were therefore guilty at most of abetting. Even to be guilty of aiding and abetting some crime, it had to be proved that you had been doing something, not just being something.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby stefanob » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed May 18, 2011 5:19 pm)

Being saddened and outraged once more from this unfair zionist justice, I found something that I liked in this article regarding Mr. Demjanjuk's conviction:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ailed.html

At the end the ritual Sobibor survivor is quoted. I'm sure that only 10 years ago she would just have said it was good to have justice upon all nazi criminals.

But not this time! She says
What is important is this verdict tells the world the Holocaust happened.

But if it is necessary that a verdict tells the world that the holocaust happened, this means that now the matter is in discussion!
I am not a native english speaker, so please forgive errors and weird syntax

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 4 months ago (Thu May 19, 2011 3:15 am)

stefanob wrote:At the end the ritual Sobibor survivor is quoted.


Not even a Sobibor survivor. Not even a survivor of anything. She's only 63. AFAIAA there is only one Sobibor survivor, the Blessed Tomas Blatt, who married a woman who believes there are aliens living here among us, which may tell us something of his critical attitude to fantasies.

stefanob wrote: I'm sure that only 10 years ago she would just have said it was good to have justice upon all nazi criminals. But not this time! She says
What is important is this verdict tells the world the Holocaust happened.

But if it is necessary that a verdict tells the world that the holocaust happened, this means that now the matter is in discussion!


Excellent point. Unfortunately, although it tells the world nothing of the sort it will be spun that way, but it is encouraging that they openly acknowledge the need. It is a surprisingly defensive attitude.

I see they trotted out Diesel exhaust from a submarine engine again. Good.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 8 years 4 months ago (Thu May 19, 2011 4:00 pm)

stefanob wrote:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ailed.html

But not this time! She says
What is important is this verdict tells the world the Holocaust happened.

But if it is necessary that a verdict tells the world that the holocaust happened, this means that now the matter is in discussion!



How does putting an innocent man in jail with a mock trial prove anything? They claimed the same thing with David Irving. "We threw him in jail, so we are right."

I don't think the matter is in discussion. Argentina just passed an anti-Semite law. http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/05/18/ ... na.google/

Expect the same in the USA. This means that more people might be waking up.

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Re: John Demjanjuk found guilty

Postby Hannover » 8 years 4 months ago (Thu May 19, 2011 7:12 pm)

How does putting an innocent man in jail with a mock trial prove anything?

Yes, that seems to be another tactic of desperation by the 'holocau$t' Industry ... They say: 'See, a court of law proved it.'

Of course, the fact that thousands of people were found guilty of witchcraft in official courts of law proves that witchcraft is "fact".

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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