Autopsies

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:02 am)

This image gives away the Hadamar game.

Image
Herman Bolker supposedly performing an autopsy on a Hadamar euthanasia victim.

In spite of available Hadamar facilities notice that the corpses are simply placed upon the ground, not in an actual medical facility, not on an autopsy table surround by examination tools & staff. Notice that 'Bolker' is not even wearing a mask. The photo is staged.

real world examples that would certainly apply to the 1940s:
Image
and this:
Image
something like this:
Image
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy
and:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/autopsy4.htm

Rabbit points out another dead give away:
no actual autopsy reports were submitted as evidence
Of course not, the Bolker Hadamar 'autopsies' are a fraud.
Imagine going into a legitimate court of law and claiming autopsies were done while presenting no actual verifiable reports on the claimed autopsies. 'Laughed out of court' is the appropriate expression.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:43 am)

hermod wrote:Thank you very much for clarifying that, Black Rabbit. As useful and knowledgeable as usually, I see.


Thanks very much hermod.

Recently I got hold of a book in French that supposedly gives details of the Natzweiler autopsies. I'll try to find time to transcribe the relevant part and then perhaps you'd been kind enough to give us a transit/or the gist of what it says.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Autopsies

Postby hermod » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:56 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Recently I got hold of a book in French that supposedly gives details of the Natzweiler autopsies. I'll try to find time to transcribe the relevant part and then perhaps you'd been kind enough to give us a transit/or the gist of what it says.


No problem. I'll gladly do that.

Perhaps you could rather scan the relevant part and send me a pdf of it. That would be faster and easier for you.
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Re: Autopsies

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:49 am)

Hannover wrote:This image gives away the Hadamar game.

Image


The photo is staged.


Clearly you're not aware of the film footage of the autopsies being performed, despite the fact some of it features in the the newsreel footage hermod posted on this very thread. Didn't you watch it? Or didn't you put 2 and 2 together successfully.

Here's extended footage of the bodies being exhumed and Dr. Bolker performing the autopsies:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROSQvafGS-I

It also escaped your attention that the photo you lifted from the RODOH thread was taken at night, or at least at dusk. Whereas the photo from the Hadamar trial book (posted on the same RODOH post you took the photo from) shows Bolker at work on the corpses in daylight. Why would he have spent so long by the corpses if he was only there for a "staged" photo op?

Image



Hannover wrote:In spite of available Hadamar facilities notice that the corpses are simply placed upon the ground, not in an actual medical facility, not on an autopsy table surround by examination tools & staff. Notice that 'Bolker' is not even wearing a mask. The photo is staged.

real world examples that would certainly apply to the 1940s:
Image
and this:
Image
something like this:
Image
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy
and:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/autopsy4.htm


Are you claiming it's impossible to perform an autopsy outside of an autopsy room?

Is it also impossible for surgeons to perform operations outside an operating theatre?


Hannover wrote:Rabbit points out another dead give away:
no actual autopsy reports were submitted as evidence
Of course not, the Bolker Hadamar 'autopsies' are a fraud.


So you didn't bother reading his testimony I linked either! Bolker actually confirmed that no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due to the length of time of the corpses had been buried:


Prosecutor:—Assuming the morphine or scopolamine or a similar drug had been used in order to produce death, would you have expected to find traces of those those drugs in any of the bodies?

Bolker:—I would not; the length of time these bodies were buried [several months] was sufficient for the drug to have been broken down.

Prosecutor:—Did you nevertheless have an analysis made for the purpose of determining if there might be traces of morphine or scopolamine remaining?

Bolker:—Yes. Properly labeled specimens from those six bodies consisting of brain, stomach contents, and liver were sent to the 1st Medical General Laboratory, and a report returned to me marked negative.



Hannover wrote:Imagine going into a legitimate court of law and claiming autopsies were done while presenting no actual verifiable reports on the claimed autopsies. 'Laughed out of court' is the appropriate expression.


Imagine posting a purported debunking of Bolker's autopsies without even doing the minimum of background reading on his autopsies, even when the literature has been spoon-fed to you.

:lol:
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Re: Autopsies

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:50 am)

hermod wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Recently I got hold of a book in French that supposedly gives details of the Natzweiler autopsies. I'll try to find time to transcribe the relevant part and then perhaps you'd been kind enough to give us a transit/or the gist of what it says.


No problem. I'll gladly do that.

Perhaps you could rather scan the relevant part and send me a pdf of it. That would be faster and easier for you.


Thanks. Will do.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:18 pm)

The Black Rabbit posts some propaganda which I previously looked at and laughed. It is he who needs to supply proof of what he wishes to believe in.

But anyway, allow me to spoon feed him a takedown of the propaganda film he posted with challenges to him:

- We see that a 'gas chamber' is alleged without a shred of proof. Show us the gas chamber, Rabbit.

- We hear about an alleged "detailed listing of all clinical data", but where is it, Rabbit?

- We see a chubby guy with a pipe writing, what did he write? Anything? Why can't we see it, Rabbit?

- We see no real autopsies whatsoever. Please show us real autopsies at Hadamar, Rabbit.

- We do see a total of five corpses placed on the ground, not a real autopsy in a real medical environment, the cause of death of these five is not shown. Your best shot Rabbit?

- Narrator says "Investigating officers were told...." blah, blah. Really? Told by who? Proof?

- We're told that morphine was allegedly used in killings, so what happened to the gas chambers, Rabbit?

- We're told that bodies were "buried in piles of 20, 24 ... " So where are those piles to examine? Nowhere, it's all propaganda. Show us these "piles", Rabbit.

- We're hilariously told that the Hadamar judge said that 'when the 10,000th person died the Nazis held a celebration'. That's the Hadamar judge who could allege anything with impunity. There is no proof whatsoever for the bogus 10,000. Show us the graves of 10,000, Rabbit.

The propaganda film is so bad that one has to wonder if The Rabbit ever watched it. He must be a glutton for punishment as he obviously has stepped on a landmine.

Rabbit says:
It also escaped your attention that the photo you lifted was taken at night, or at least at dusk. Whereas the photo from the Hadamar trial book shows Bolker at work on the corpses in daylight. Why would he have spent so long by the corpses if he was only there for a "staged" photo op?
Photo at "night/dusk". So what? The body is clearly laying on the ground and clearly no real autopsy is being performed.
He stood next to corpses for "so long"? So what? You're making no sense. Standing next to a few corpses is not an autopsy. You're embarrassingly grasping at straws here.

Rabbit asks:
Are you claiming it's impossible to perform an autopsy outside of an autopsy room?
Is it also impossible for surgeons to perform operations outside an operating theatre?
It's impossible to perform autopises on the dirt without proper medical tables, tools, equipment, & staff. Yes indeed.
Of course autopsies can be performed anywhere, IF one has the necessary medical tables, tools, equipment, & staff. And shall I mention a verifiable report that is made available. Note there were no such reports brought into the trial. But I said that previously.

Rabbit falsely states:
So you didn't bother reading his testimony I linked either! Bolker actually confirmed that no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due to the length of time of the corpses had been buried
In fact I did read it. Yes I saw "that no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due to the length of time of the corpses had been buried". Even without autopsies, which were obviously not done, Bolker or anyone else, could easily state "no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due the length of time of the corpses had been buried", it is no great feat to make such an assumption. A no brainer and a easy way to bluff a claim of autopsies.

Rabbit grasping at straws again:
Imagine posting a purported debunking of Bolker's autopsies without even doing the minimum of background reading on his autopsies, even when the literature has been spoon-fed to you.
Rabbit is not being factual again, I previously read the propaganda and it is obvious no autopsies were performed. Imagine someone like Rabbit putting his faith in propaganda which, as I have shown, is easy to debunk. To believe in Allied propaganda one must want to believe.

This was truly too easy.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Moderator » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:23 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé:
Your last post directed at Hannover consisted of so much trash talk & nonsense that I have moved & saved it elsewhere. The on-topic, less childish aspects have been sent to Hannover.
BTW, we will not change our standards for decent behavior here in spite of your inflammatory instigations.
Cheers, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:24 pm)

As stated, TheBlackRabbitofinle posted a response to me which was littered with personal attacks, but hey, here's my response to his on topic points.

I said:
- We see that a 'gas chamber' is alleged without a shred of proof. Show us the gas chamber, Rabbit.
Rabbit said:
And...Hannover doesn't know that this trial did not concern itself with alleged gassings during Aktion T4, but only the lethal injections to non-German nationals. This was due to International Laws that the Allies had yet to circumvent, but I won't get into that.
So IOW, the film YOU posted, which you believe to be credible, which claims 'gas chambers' at Hadamar is BS. Ah!

I said:
- We hear about an alleged "detailed listing of all clinical data", but where is it, Rabbit?
Rabbit said:
So you do lie [see below] when you claim to have read Bolker's testimony, because he detailed much of it at the trial.
No, it appears that you are the 'untruthful' one ... inflammatory behavior from you as usual. Anyway, a la the nonsense at Nuremberg we have seen no actual 'detailed clinical data list' prepared at the supposed time of examination, only Bolker's claims. Hardly the same, Rabbit.
Imagine in a legit court of law saying to the court: 'We made a list at the time, but sorry there is no list to show the court, just believe me.' Laughable.

I said:
- We see a chubby guy with a pipe writing, what did he write? Anything? Why can't we see it, Rabbit?
Rabbit said:
You can't see it because the camera doesn't focus closely enough on it.
Why then isn't the supposedly all important writing published in original form? Well, because it doesn't exist and you cannot show it. Simple as that.

I said:
- We see no real autopsies whatsoever. Please show us real autopsies at Hadamar, Rabbit.
Rabbit says:
You're not qualified to judge what is and isn't a real autopsy.
Yes I am, actually read the links I sent you previously about real autopsies. Anyone who can read what's required for a real autopsy.

Rabbit asks:
You want a list of defendants at the Hadamar trial too!
No, already know it. You want a list of the defendants at Nuremberg? Ah!

I said:
- We're told that bodies were "buried in piles of 20, 24 ... " So where are those piles to examine? Nowhere, it's all propaganda. Show us these "piles", Rabbit.
Rabbit said:
I don't have to substantiate claims that I didn't make. I posted the video to show to you that Bolker is featured performing his work than in more than your *staged hoax photo*.
Yet rabbit posted an Allied propaganda film which claims that corpses were "buried in piles of 20, 24 ... ", he cites the film as credible, but now he rejects the contents in the film. Crazy stuff to be sure. As for 'Bolker performing his work', bingo! Performing is spot on. The entire phony autopsies are laughable. I mean, alleged autopsies performed on the dirt? Now that's the stuff of 'holocaust' propaganda. And indeed, the photo is staged, ahem ...'performed'.

I said:
- We're hilariously told that the Hadamar judge said that 'when the 10,000th person died the Nazis held a celebration'. That's the Hadamar judge who could allege anything with impunity. There is no proof whatsoever for the bogus 10,000. Show us the graves of 10,000, Rabbit.
Rabbit said:
No surprise to see you think that all were supposedly buried, and are not aware that they are claimed to have been mostly cremated.
"Mostly"? So where are the others?
Cremated? So what? Apparently Rabbit is not aware that cremation leaves a lot of human remains, which he nor anyone else can produce. Ah! I welcome Rabbit to 'holocau$t' Revisionism 101 which has established that fact rather clearly.

I said:
- We do see a total of five corpses placed on the ground, not a real autopsy in a real medical environment, the cause of death of these five is not shown. Your best shot Rabbit?
Rabbit desperate for something, anything says:
You can't even count now; there are six corpses.
Wow six corpses out of an alleged 10,000. I suggest to Rabbit that when he's in a hole, stop digging.

I said:
The propaganda film is so bad that one has to wonder if The Rabbit ever watched it. He must be a glutton for punishment as he obviously has stepped on a landmine.
Rabbit says:
Your review of it is certainly terrible. But that's mainly due to the fact you don't know anything about Hadamar because of your renown reluctance to read books to learn about a topic before posting your opinions online.
It's not meant as a "review", but a takedown of the debunked nonsense contained in what RABBIT posted. See above. After much reading I apparently know more about Hadamar than Rabbit and do not accept the propaganda marketed about it, but Rabbit faithfully believes in what he cannot prove. Curious.

Rabbit said:
It also escaped your attention that the photo you lifted was taken at night, or at least at dusk. Whereas the photo from the Hadamar trial book shows Bolker at work on the corpses in daylight. Why would he have spent so long by the corpses if he was only there for a "staged" photo op?
I said:
Photo at "night/dusk". So what? The body is clearly laying on the ground and clearly no real autopsy is being performed. He stood next to corpses for "so long"? So what? You're making no sense. Standing next to a few corpses is not an autopsy. You're embarrassingly grasping at straws here.
Rabbit now says:
No surprise Hannover's feigning not to understand a question he can't answer.
Indeed, a very confused question from Rabbit to begin with.
Rabbit says:
Here it is again:
Why would Dr. Bolker have spend so long with the corpses if he was merely there for a quick scene in a hoax film and staged photo op?
And why did they bother using a real pathologist in this film at all, why not use an actor, or a squaddie in a white coat, if it was all just an elaborate hoax?
Is Dr. Bolker also a propaganda hoax?
Who said anything about "quick"? You did, not me. The staged photo is just one of many.
Rabbit attempts to deflect by raising the use of "a real pathologist"?
Anyway, it's simple. It's an attempt to make everything appear on the up & up. It's what is claimed about Hadamar that is the issue, not about "a real pathologist". Like at Nuremberg, people said what they were essentially instructed to say. Want to discuss Nuremberg, Rabbit? No doubt you find those Show Trials believable like the Hadamar Show Trial, which was a precursor to Nuremberg.
Rabbit asked:
Are you claiming it's impossible to perform an autopsy outside of an autopsy room?
Is it also impossible for surgeons to perform operations outside an operating theatre?
I said:
It's impossible to perform autopsies on the dirt without proper medical tables, tools, equipment, & staff. Yes indeed.
Of course autopsies can be performed anywhere, IF one has the necessary medical tables, tools, equipment, & staff.
Rabbit said:
A worthless opinion from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
IOW, he has no answer to my rebuttal, very funny.

Rabbit falsely states:
So you didn't bother reading his testimony I linked either! Bolker actually confirmed that no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due to the length of time of the corpses had been buried
I said:
In fact I did read it. Yes I saw "that no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due to the length of time of the corpses had been buried". Even without autopsies, which were obviously not done, Bolker or anyone else, could easily state "no trace of the substances used to kill the sick prisoners was discovered due the length of time of the corpses had been buried", it is no great feat to make such an assumption. A no brainer and a easy way to bluff a claim of autopsies.
Rabbit deflects again:
No you didn't read it, otherwise you would have pounced upon the extract I quoted to prove that the autopsies found no proof of poisoning.
You're now stuck with this convoluted conspiracy claim about the autopsies being a staged hoax and propaganda which didn't find proof of poisoning.
No, it is Rabbit who is stuck trying to defend the absurd Hadamar 'gas chambers, the laughable '10,000', the utter lack of verifiable autopsies, the complete lack of mass graves for the 10,000 supposedly cremated, and well, those not cremated.

As usual, taking down Believers in things they can produce no proof for is a piece of cake.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Atigun » 4 years 1 month ago (Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:13 am)

We have an assumption that may be false. Bolker said he found no morphine due to the length of time the bodies had been buried. After an admittedly cursory search for post mortem opiate detection, I found that it's apparently possible to determine the presence of opiates in decomposing cadavers. Determining quantitative levels is much more difficult rather than just the qualitative presence of opiates due to something called Post Mortem Redistribution (PMR). In the film, the bodies being pulled from the graves appeared remarkably whole rather than decomposed. Perhaps, too, the technology for such an analysis didn't exist in the mid 1940s.

However, it would be nice to know if the claim that morphine becomes undetectable by autopsy after a body has been interred is bogus. From what I did read it seems that the presence of opiates can be determined even in fairly late stages of decomposition.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby ginger » 4 years 1 month ago (Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:11 pm)

Thanks BlackRabbit for posting the material showing Dr. Bolker performing autopsies. I had posted questions about Hadamar and gas chambers about 2 years ago ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5314&hilit=hadamar ) and asked about the autopsies. It is very likely that people were euthanized by lethal injections of morphine or other chemicals and not in gas chambers.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 1 month ago (Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:35 pm)

ginger wrote:Thanks BlackRabbit for posting the material showing Dr. Bolker performing autopsies. I had posted questions about Hadamar and gas chambers about 2 years ago ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5314&hilit=hadamar ) and asked about the autopsies. It is very likely that people were euthanized by lethal injections of morphine or other chemicals and not in gas chambers.

But what autopsies, Ginger?
Autopsies done on dirt, without a mask, without medical tools, and without autopsy equipment?
Show us the claimed autopsy reports.
Answer the questions and rebuttals I put to Rabbit about the ridiculous "autopsies", Allied propaganda film, and the Hadamar Show Trial.

Thanks, Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Autopsies

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 6 days ago (Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:48 pm)

Atigun wrote:From the same poster, a quote from the "Wichita Eagle" interview with Dr. Larson.

Concentration Camp Conditions Killed Most Inmates, Says Doctor By Jane Floerchinger – Staff Writer

Dr Charles Larson followed General Patton’s troops into Southern Germany at the end of WW2. In the following months, he conducted autopsies on as many as 100 concentration camp victims from mass graves in a single day. The Tacoma, Wa, physician, who in his post-war career came to be called the “crime Doctor” because of his medical detective work, was in Wichita Monday for a dedication ceremony of a crime archive exhibit named after him at Wichita State University.

Larson has talked little publicly about the war experience, One reason for his silence had been that his autopsy findings conflicted with the widely held belief that most Jews in Nazi camps were exterminated by gassing, shooting or poisoning.

“What we’ve heard is that 6 million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax.” Larson said. There were mass murders in concentration camps as Germany fell in an attempt to cover up atrocities, but most inmates died as a result of conditions in the camps, he said.

When the war ended Larson served as a forensic pathologist investigating Nazi war crimes for the Judge Advocate General’s Office. He was the first pathologist to enter Dachau, only hours after German troops surrendered. His investigations took him to more than 20 camps. Larson said in an interview Monday that certainly hundreds of thousands, even millions of Jews died at the hands of Nazis. But most died as a result of the conditions to which they were subjected rather than mass exterminations.

“They worked these people to death.” He said. Fed on potato peelings, inadequately clothed and packed into shacks, they died of every known disease, he said. “In one camp, 90% died of TB. It went from shack to shack.” Larson said that in Southern Germany, where he served, autopsies showed that death by gassing and shooting were rare. Never was a case of poisoning uncovered, he said.

Just curious but if there were no autopsy results showing poison gas as the cause of death, how was it determined that "...death by gassing [...] were rare."


Here is the article:

Image
Image
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