German atrocities in Poland

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German atrocities in Poland

Postby montague » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:02 am)

[This is an interesting exchange from Dr Fred Töben's mailing list. The accusations and replies are separated into paragraphs.

A revisionist book needs to be written on the German war against, and occupation of, Poland. Nationalist Poles - equally as much as Jews - have been active in developing and spreading the Holocaust hoax, and what's more, Poles claim co-victim status with the Jews. (In the official Holocaust literature, the Nazis "gassed" 3 million (!) Polish non-Jews along with 3 million Polish Jews).

Rupert.]


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To: "Adelaide Institute" <[email protected]>
Subject: Fw: DEBUNKING DANA
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:55:04 +1030





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Subject: DEBUNKING DANA


Dear Dana

It was Elie Wiesel who chose to leave Auschwitz with the Germans instead of waiting for the Russians, not Simon Wiesenthal.
Russian soldiers raped German women, not Polish and not Hungarian. They had an order to behave in Poland but do what they felt like once they crossed to Germany.

Not true, according to the testimonies of many German women who had been raped and beaten by Poles, and then forced out of German territory (that had been stolen by Poland after WW1).
My mother-in-law was acting as a nurse in 1939 and looking after German refugees fleeing Poland before the war started, she told me that a number of women had been badly tortured by Poles, some of them had been nailed through their tongues onto doors and tables and had terrible wounds (before the war started!!!)

German soldiers raped too, but in a different way. They caught women to be prostitutes in hotels "for Germans only". These women were kept as prisoners, regularly checked by doctors for infectious diseases.

Dana there is a major difference between women who are paid and work as prostitutes (such as those who worked in concentration camps for 2RM per customer) and women who are gang-raped by hordes of men. These women were not forced to be prostitutes as a matter of fact many tried to get preganant so they could be freed from factory work....the Brothels in the concentration camps had radios, music, flowers on the tables, and their customers bought them perfume, fancy underwear and jazzrecords, one such brothel was THIS one in Buchenwald Camp (Foto courtesy of the Camp museum) in it you cann see the flowers, radio and ashtrays.

One such hotel/restaurant was the Hotel Astoria on 49 Chmielna St. in Warsaw. Probably in 1942, during a Russian air raid, the civilian Polish population that lived in another part of the building and the German soldiers from the hotel/restaurant all hid together in the cellars and all were frightened. The women hostages were left locked up in the hotel.
I remember standing next to a German soldier who was shaking with fright and I, frightened too, kept pulling at his arm asking when the air raid will end. At one time, during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944, some extremely gruesome photographs of sexual torture of these women by Germans in uniform were scattered out of that building when the building was hit.

During this time of the uprising many Poles put on German uniforms, I have seen many Polish films on TV here proving this, plus I have many original photos showing Czechs and Poles dressed in German uniforms shooting naked German prisoners in the neck after these partisans had stolen the uniforms...these photos were shown world wide as 'proof' of German brutality JUST as Stalins STAVKA order which required that Russian soldiers put on captured German uniforms and destroy Russian villages(ers) in order to stop the population welcoming the Germans.

Germans dropped bombs on civilian population in Warsaw right at the beginning of the War. I was there. I became sick with panic so that my Mother took me out toward Eastern Poland with the hope of escaping the bombs and also to connect with my Father who was then stationed in Brzesc on the Bug River.

What do you expect after Pilsudski had, in 1919, built 2 concentration camps and in 1826 another 2 camps, and the Poles imprisoned tens of thousands of Germans and Ukrainians and forced 50.000 Germans living in Schlesien, Prussia etc out of their homes.
I have friends who were children then, and whose whole family was MURDERED by Polish militia BEFORE the war started.
Ridz-Smigly was quoted by the Daily Mail August 6th 1939 as saying 'Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to!'
Radio Warsaw declared war on Germany at midnight of the 31st Aug 1939, and Dana tell us all what it says on this Polish placard printed in 1930 threatening Germany...in 1930 Germany was NOT threatening Poland was it???? So WHO was the aggressor????

As we, and thousands of other civilians with children tried to escape the city, German planes would come low and machine-gun. I remember, one day, already quite a distance East, my Mother and I hid in a field of carrots when we heard a German plane approaching. Next to that field was a field with stacks of harvested buckwheat. And to a side a little boy tending several cows. The German pilot kept returning to shoot at the buckwheat stacks and at the boy and his cows killing the child and the cows.
The writer, and other Germans who remind that it was the Soviets who killed Polish officers at Katyn, conveniently withhold that those soldiers were killed because, in the first place, Hitler attacked Poland. Secondly, they fell to the Russians because of the Hitler's pact with them in 1939. While the Russians were murdering Poles in the East, the Germans were rounding up Polish professors, teachers, doctors, lawyers, top of the society and murdering them.

Dana this is total rubbish, Hitler made a pact with Russia AFTER he tried to make friendly gestures to Poland remember it was GERMAN and AUSTRIAN troops that freed Poland from Russia in 1917...and 4 years later the Polish Govt stole large areas of German territory.

The stories of Poles murdering Germans in 1939 the Western borders is a known Hitlerian propaganda which has been debunked by historians, including German. That propaganda was in preparations years before 1939 in order to make the Germans soldiers better killers of Poles when the War would start. At the onset of the War, Germans who lived in Poland quickly became the Fifth Column. Those by the Western borders were shooting at Polish soldiers who then retaliated.

OH REALLY !! Then Dana you should write to the German Govt demanding this book be taken off the market because its got all the documentation in it regarding the MURDER of thousands of German civilians by Polish Militia in 1939 AND please tell my friend Siegfried who STILL has the bayonet wound in his arm that killed his grandfather that the Poles were NOT murdering innocent civilians (5700 in Bromberg alone)

When next you come here, I will show you German photographs of what the Germans did to Poland. The German claims to lands is almost amusing considering that Dresden is a Slavic name, Rostock (Rostok, roztoka) is a Polish word pertaining to water. Germans took part in the partitions of Poland. German terms as "Lebenstraum", - with the view to the East of course, and "Drang nach osten (spelling ?)" are proof of German historic intentions.

Poland did NOT exist before the year AD 966, we know that for sure by admissions made in 1956 by the Polish Bishops Stefan Wyszynski and Karol Woytyla, who had been commissioned to write an historical letter of "Reconciliation" The Polish language was only invented around 1466 and the Polish King Casimir spoke German and the first Polish books were printed in Germany in 1521.
Danzig had already been established by Germans in the year 740, which is therefore around 200 years before Poland was created and the so-called Polish names of Rostock and Danzig etc...well Polish was derived from German NOT the other way around...
Gute Nacht....Paul aus Hamburg

It is not a good idea to be so selective and convoluting history. In effect, you are doing the same as the Jews.
Have a good day or night, whichever applies.
Dana

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Re: German atrocities in Poland

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:54 am)

We have been reading an interesting book by Dr. Richard Giziowski entitled The Enigma of General Blaskowitz. A Wehrmacht General who was one of the successful commanders of the German attack on Poland, he tried on three occasions, before the end of 1939, to protest the actions of the SS and SD in that country.

We shall let Dr. Giziowski take up the story:

In these astounding circumstances - with Hitler and von Brauchitsch temporarily not talking to each other - Blaskowitz took the only action possible to a decent, honorable soldier. He informed his Commander-in-Chief in writing on 16 November of the horrible torture of Poland. Clearly there could have been little in the memorandum that was strikingly new to von Brauchitsch; only two days earlier, Major General Kurt von Tippelskirch had told him all that he needed to know. Von Tippelskirch, Chief Intelligence officer at OKH, had told von Brauchitsch of mass executions in Poland and that "women and children were put into large graves." The Army Commander-in-Chief's reaction was unfortunately not recorded, but he did at least forward Blaskowitz's written protest to Hitler through his adjutant.

Major Curt Siewert, von Brauchitsch's adjutant, passed the memorandum, which itself has disappeared, to Gerhard Engel, Hitler's Army adjutant. Engel submitted it to Hitler that very day. The memorandum expressed Colonel-General Blaskowitz's extreme alarm about illegal executions, his worries about maintaining troop discipline under those circumstances, the failure of discussions with the SD and Gestapo and their assertions that they were only following SS orders. The report was of a "highly objective nature."

Hitler's reaction was predictably explosive. The methods of the army leaders were "salvation army" methods; their ideas "childish." "This was no way to conduct a war." He admitted to "never having trusted Blaskowitz and having nursed an aversion to him for a long time." Hitler concluded by asserting that "Blaskowitz could not command an army, [and] was not actually suited to do so and should be removed."

Engel informed von Brauchitsch of Hitler's hostile reaction to Blaskowitz's report. Blaskowitz never learned of Hitler's response or received any other official response. He submitted his first report on atrocities after only three weeks in office as Oberost, it was clear that he was a man of conscience, as well as a man of duty; a soldier of the old Prussian tradition who retained a sense of his own dignity and decency - qualities not subject to Hitler's or anyone else's command. His actions were reminiscent of the old Prussian General F.C. Saldern, who had refused to execute an order of Frederick II, declaring that "Your Majesty may send me to attack the enemy batteries, and I will readily obey. But to act contrary to my honor, oath and duty is something which my will and conscience do not permit me to do." Whether from conscience or duty, having had no official response to his first memorandum, he began to draft another; meanwhile, complaints from officers in his command continued to arrive at Spala.

[...]

Von Brauchitsch offered Hitler his resignation but it was refused. Matters became even more difficult for him when only a few days later he received a second report from Blaskowitz about further events and atrocities in Poland. Hitler had just told him that the army's "chivalry" in Poland must stop, but the memorandum from Blaskowitz arrived on 27 November 1939, just four days after Hitler's tirade.

Colonel-General Blaskowitz expressed his horror of conditions it Poland in a language that was without precedent in German military history. Unfortunately, only part of the memorandum has survived but it nevertheless forcefully expresses Blaskowitz's torment about the outrages the SS was practicing. He began by explaining that under Frank's authority, the situation in Poland had deteriorated, but at least the regular army soldiers refused to participate in the SS cruelties and executions. Indeed, the troops referred to the SS as an "execution command," and asserted that "the special police has done nothing but spread horror and fear ... [and] for the soldiers to see that this is done in the name of the German Army is inconceivable." Indignantly demanding that these things be corrected, he continued:

It must be said that the situation needs to be changed. Because if it is not drastically changed and rectified, there will be an insurrection, there will be no chance to do right by the occupied land and its residents, to be in peaceful coexistence with the citizens of Poland and to make them useful to our own nation. There is no way that we can continue to use force, brutality, and bestial actions in order to secure the order and tranquility that is said that we are fighting for.

The Army and the civilians, Blaskowitz argued, want to see "order and mutual respect." For this to happen, it was of "eminent importance that the population be nourished adequately and properly." The Polish people must be given the goods they need and their economy should be given a chance to prosper. This was indeed strong language but the timing of this second protest proved particularly inopportune.

While it is true that growing rumors of the SS atrocities in Poland contributed to the rekindling of differences between the generals on the one hand and Hitler and the SS on the other hand, more sensational issues, especially the Frauenerlass, or "woman's order," temporarily assumed center stage. The Frauenerlass was a decree by Himmler to the effect that war was a form of blood-letting in which the "best blood" was often lost. Therefore, to replace this loss it was the duty of married women, whose husbands were at the front, not to deny themselves to members of the SS. Another issue was the suppression of religion in the armed forces. It seemed that since no one could or would do much about the atrocities in Poland, attention turned to other issues.

[...]

Ironically, while Blaskowitz was in the process of sending yet another report to Berlin, Hitler was meeting on 5 December with Frank and Goebbels. The later had just returned from a speaking tour in German enclaves in Poland. After entering into his diary for that day his feeling that Hitler looked "wonderful," was in the "best of moods," and totally shared his opinion on the Jewish and Polish question. Goebbels added, "We must liquidate the Jewish Danger. But it will return in a few generations. There is no panacea against it. The Polish aristocracy deserves to be destroyed." Frank, Goebbels explained, "has an enor­mous amount of work to do and is framing a series of new plans."'

Three days later, 8 December 1939, General Jaenecke, Blaskowitz's Deputy Chief of Staff and Quartermaster-General, flew to Berlin with six copies of the new report. After his arrival at OKH showing it to officers there, and relating some personal recollections, "hell broke loose among the officers." Helmuth Groscurth, an intelligence officer at OKH, asked the obvious question: "Why does nobody interfere with these ongoing conditions?"

Most regrettably the document which so excited the officers at the Army High Command that day has not survived; it is, however, possible to reconstruct its essential content and flavor to some degree. According to Colonel-General Blaskowitz's own account of the memorandum, it contained a list of all the reports by his officers of incidents of unrest and of arrests in the East. In his list he detailed the arrests of Jews, the forming of Ghettos, and the resulting local unrest. Governor General Frank, he explained, "had begun arrests of different kinds in different cities, arrests which had been carried through with his own police force. As a consequence there was unrest in the entire territory where this took place ...." Even the troops who did not participate because of his orders not be take part, were nevertheless negatively affected. Objecting to the raids upon the Jews and their deportation by the SS, the report specified three grounds on which the objections were based: (1) that the discipline of his own troops was endangered by the SS activities; (2) that the security of the country was endangered since the population became restive; and, (3) that production was inhibited since the population would not work if it saw purposeless destruction.

The tone of the language used in the report may be surmised from two sentences, recalled by different sources. Von Hassell noted in his diary that the memorandum "contained a sentence to the effect that, judging from the conduct of the SS in Poland, it was to be feared they might turn upon their own people in the same way." The memoran­dum concluded with these most dramatic and forceful words: "Law, property and life are, in these circumstances, concepts which have ceased to exist." It was language without precedent in German military history; language previously considered to be outside the vocabulary of a German officer.

Blaskowitz felt that he could only submit such a memorandum at all in the context of making a case against Frank's policy "from the military standpoint." Since his orders strictly limited his responsi­bilities as OB East exclusively to the military sphere, Frank's policies were not technically within his realm. He could not, however, simply stand by and watch the perpetration of horrors beyond belief.

As his Chief of Staff, General Karl Hollidt, later stated, Colonel-General Blaskowitz gave to the ideas of military security, maintenance of troop discipline, and German interest in Polish war production, very generous interpretation, specifically so that he could report on the atrocities to higher command in Germany. It seems incredible tha­it was necessary at all to construct a premise for submitting a repor­t on widespread horrors and atrocities. Nevertheless, it was true. And to have any possibility of being effective, of receiving a real hearing by Hitler, the protest had to be couched in terms of Nazi-self-interest. Wide-sweeping protests argued in ethical and humanitarian terms would receive no hearing at all.

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Postby Kilroy » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:53 pm)

It seems to me that the questions that should be asked are basic.

Why haven't these "mass graves" ever been found?

Where are these "SS orders"?

The "Frauenerlass" is a smutty joke, no such decree existed.

Who is this Dr. Richard Giziowski?

The whole thing reads like the standard pulp smut-fiction that is so common when comes to WWII.

Kilroy

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:57 pm)

Kilroy wrote:It seems to me that the questions that should be asked are basic.

Why haven't these "mass graves" ever been found?

Where are these "SS orders"?

The "Frauenerlass" is a smutty joke, no such decree existed.

Who is this Dr. Richard Giziowski?

The whole thing reads like the standard pulp smut-fiction that is so common when comes to WWII.

Kilroy


Your posting style seems strangely familiar.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:47 pm)

Hebden wrote: Your posting style seems strangely familiar.

Why is it that I have the odd feeling that Mr. Hebden is thinking of me? :D

I have a whole book "Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen" (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes against Germans 1919-1939 according to Official Sources).

The book includes details and pictures of opened mass graves like in Katyn of murdered German civilians Simply awful!

Well known is the Bloody Sundy of Bromberg in 1939 with 5000 German civilians massacred.

fge

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:29 pm)

Sailor wrote:
Hebden wrote: Your posting style seems strangely familiar.

Why is it that I have the odd feeling that Mr. Hebden is thinking of me? :D


We said style, not content. Short staccato sentences, uneven grammar, damned impertinence.

Alles klar?

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:44 pm)

Hi,

I think the Frauenerlass is another one of those champagne cork popping Nazi orgy fantasies, sort of like the provisions Himmler made for unwed mothers which turned into SS breeder farms in the pulps.

Also I think it's clear the author has a severe jones for General Blaskowitz. "In language never before used by a German officer" must have been said about fifteen times.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:21 am)

Secret Anne X wrote:Hi,
I think the Frauenerlass is another one of those champagne cork popping Nazi orgy fantasies, sort of like the provisions Himmler made for unwed mothers which turned into SS breeder farms in the pulps.


Dr. Giziowski attributes the term Frauenerlass to General Halder, with reference to a postwar interrogation.

This from Mr. Peter Padfield's Himmler Reichsfuhrer SS:

Towards the end of October, as German forces were being regrouped for the lightning blow Hitler hoped to strike against France before the end of the year, Himmler broke his own rule about not proceeding too fast and too far ahead of opinion. He promulgated an SS order which not only provided grounds for ridicule but roused anger and concern, much no doubt genuine, much blown up by the generals in their running battle with him.

Set in old Germanic type, it was addressed to`the entire SS and police' , and opened with a favourite aphorism of Hitler's: `Every war is a blood-letting of the best blood.' The necessary death of the best men was not the worst aspect; much worse was the lack of children caused by soldiers not being able to propagate while at the front, while after the war children could not be propagated by those who failed to return.

The old wisdom that only he who has sons and children can die peacefully must in this war again become reality for the Schutzstaffel. He can die peacefully who knows that his Sippe, all that he and his ancestors have wanted and striven for, is continued in his children. The greatest gift for the widow of a man who falls in battle is always the child of the man she loved.

Next came the paragraphs that caused the rumpus:

But beyond the boundaries of otherwise perhaps necessary bourgeois laws and customs, even outside marriage, it can be a lofty task for German women and maidens of good blood, not lightly, but in deepest moral seriousness, to become mothers of children of soldiers called to war, of whom fate alone knows whether they will return home or fall for Germany.

Also the men and women, who serve the state in the homeland, have at this precise time the sacred obligation to become again mothers and fathers of children.


Did the juxtaposition of these two paragraphs signify that it was the duty of men at home to have relations with the wives and sweethearts of those at the front? it was asked. The assumption that that was the intended meaning was easy for those who had not seen the original order, those who wished to cause the Reichsfuhrer mischief, or those who were simply scandalised by the encouragement of the SS and police to sexual licence. Already rumours were circulating about the Lebensborn homes.

The order went on to assert that in past wars many soldiers with a sense of responsibility had not had children because in the event of their death they had not wanted to leave their wife to bring up the child in need 'You, SS men, need not have these doubts and worries'; Himmler pledged that 'for all children of good blood born in and out of wedlock whose father had fallen in the war' he would personally commission a representative as guardian 'in the name of the Reichsfuhrer-SS'. The SS would stand by these mothers and care for the education and material needs of the children up to maturity. Further, the SS would care for the mothers-to-be and for their children born during the war in or out of wedlock if they were in need; and after the war, if the man returned, the SS would guarantee financial aid a magnanimous scale upon a reasoned application.

He ended in grand style, difficult to render in English:

SS-Men and you, mothers of these children hoped for by Germany, show that you, in belief in the Fiihrer and in the will to eternal life of our blood and Volk, as gallantly as you are prepared to fight and die for Germany, are ready to transmit [future] life for Germany.

This stirring admonition to heroism on the field of Venus transcends his usual homespun or alternatively terse communications. Perhaps one of the more poetic experts of the Race and Settlement Main Office prepared the drafts; perhaps he was in a mood of temporary exaltation.

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:36 am)

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification about the so-called "Frauenerlass", however, Padfield's extended discussion, which I find higly speculative in its own right, does nothing to support the more hysterical sensationalist Giziowski who should have known better than to use Halder as an authority on anything.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:48 pm)

Sailor wrote:

I have a whole book "Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen" (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes against Germans 1919-1939 according to Official Sources).

The book includes details and pictures of opened mass graves like in Katyn of murdered German civilians Simply awful!

Well known is the Bloody Sundy of Bromberg in 1939 with 5000 German civilians massacred.

fge


From The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939-1945 by Professor Alfred de Zayas:

The evidentiary value of German white books during World War II varies greatly. Some consist almost exclusively of sworn witness testimony as compiled by the War Crimes Bureau; these can be said to be fairly reliable, whereas those white books including everything from newspaper articles to Gestapo reports must be taken cum grano salis.

The first two German white books dealing with the war in Poland represent a nadir of bad taste and cheap propaganda. On page 187 of "The Polish Atrocities against the Ethnic Germans in Poland" and on page 283 of the enlarged "Documents of Polish Cruelty" appears a "document" numbered 109 under the loud heading "In the Hell of Bereza-Kartuska." The editors simply reprinted a newspaper article from the Posener Tageblatt of 27 October 1939 - taking it at face value as the credible report of a Mr. Kopiera, the former director of the Schicht plant in Warsaw - purporting to establish the murder of 158 Germans at the Bereza-Kartuska internment camp.

This "document" was included even though a thorough investigation on the spot had disproved the allegations. In November 1939 a special commission - two military judges, a medical doctor, members of a propaganda company, and two foreign journalists - had been sent to investigate whether twelve to fifteen German pilots had in fact been killed at Bereza-Kartuska. Although the commission's report appears to have been lost, the files of the Foreign Office show that Gunther Altenburg had sent a representative to join the commission and report back to the Foreign Office. According to his account, the pilots were not executed at all but were sent on a transport to Pinsk. The commission further established that though many ethnic Germans at Bereza-Kartuska had been beaten and otherwise mistreated, only three had been killed. In his report of 6 January 1940, Altenburg summed up: "The conclusions of this official commission do not substantiate the allegation in Document 109 that 158 Germans were murdered at Bereza-Kartuska. I do not think it is possible in view of the commission's thoroughness and its method of interrogating witnesses that such an event as the murder of so many Germans could have escaped its attention."

In light of this finding several members in the Foreign Office pleaded for the removal of the document. On 10 January 1940 Ambassador Hans Dieckhoff wrote directly on the report: "Now as ever I believe that an official publication should contain only such documents as are absolutely correct....If the atrocities are true, they should be published; if they are not entirely true, then they should not be published." But a day later, Councilor Gunther Lohse of the Press Department contended that it would be too expensive to take the document out of the white book, and anyway, the Foreign Office had already pointed out in a footnote that an official investigation of the case was still in progress. Thus it was decided to keep the objectionable "document" 109 so as not to delay publication of the German-language version of the white book. Lohse did propose taking it out of all foreign-language editions, and in fact it is missing in the English version, titled "Polish Acts of Atrocity against the German Minority in Poland," which was published in New York in the spring of 1940.

Besides this kind of false information there were more serious manipulations and exaggerations. For instance, the original manuscript version of the white book spoke of 5,437 murdered Germans; the published edition claims 58,000 dead and missing - the "official" figure fabricated by Goebbels for his propaganda machine. In implementing this political falsification, the German Foreign Office had to telegraph its embassies in Washington, Buenos Aires, Rio de Janeiro, and elsewhere: "On page 17, line 10 from the top, insert the figure 58,000 instead of 5,000." This internal message did not become known until after the war, but in other countries there was so much skepticism about German allegations that the white book on Poland had little propagandistic success. Moreover, the Polish government-in-exile had been faster in publishing its own "black book" denouncing the widespread and indiscriminate killings perpetrated by German SS and SD soldiers in occupied Poland.

Other reasons why the German white books met with hostility in neutral countries include their racist tone: the clumsy attempt to make all Polish people and soldiers appear to be Untermenschen ("lower humans") or common criminals exposed the white books as reckless compilations of hate propaganda, not worth attention or discussion. Instead of letting documents speak for themselves, the editors added shrill absurdities: "After all this we should not be surprised that Poland in waging war failed to observe the simplest rules of international law and of humanity, for which the Poles substituted bestial terror and animal subhumanity."

Although not quite so extreme, the white book "Documents of British and French Atrocities" also contained a number of improbable allegations. Again, there was the problem of timing: alleged British and French "atrocities" had to be collected as soon as possible, even if more speed meant less accuracy. On 4 June 1940 Altenburg telegraphed the German consul in Holland: "The Foreign Minister has directed that a white book on cases of pillage, arson, evacuations, and other atrocities committed by British and French soldiers be immediately compiled. Testimony should be in the form of protocols and should be sent together with pictures to the Foreign Office immediately." The white book contains a number of sworn depositions, but the bulk of the published material consists of unconfirmed reports and allegations.

In the years 1941 and 1942 the Foreign Office published a white book on the war in Crete and three on the war in Russia. These consisted primarily of sworn witness testimony compiled and verified by the War Crimes Bureau and therefore may be taken more seriously as historical sources.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:02 pm)

It would seem the treament of the Germans by the Poles was no secret.

...”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
An immediate revival took place in the use of TERRORISM BY THE POLES [!!!] [emphasis added], especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which PLUNDERED THE VILLAGES, ILL-TREATED THE GERMANS, AND MURDERED MANY OF THEM [emphasis added].”

- 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”


Or, take into account this article which appeared in the POLISH newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht which appeared in October, 1930:
“A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…”

“Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that ***complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored***.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:14 am)

WE wonder if Mr. Sailor would be so good as to check his copy of Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen and relate for us the gist of document 109.
Last edited by Hebden on Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:06 pm)

Hebden wrote: WE wonder if Mr. Sailor would be so good as to check his copy of Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen and relate for us the gist of document 109.

I will do this, but it takes a while. The book contains about 300 pages plus 100 documents and photos.

Concerning document 109:
I did not find a reference to this number. But on page 283 of the book is indeed a chapter called "In the Hell of Bereza-Kartuska.", and a footnote saying:

"Since the official investigations of the internment camp of Bereza-Kartuska were at the time of the printing of the documentations not completed and the witness testimonies under oath were not yet available, we published this eye witness report from the "Posener Tageblatt" of October 27, 1939.".

So the statement made by Prof. Zayas checks out. I should buy a copy of his book

fge

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:36 pm)

From:
"Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939"
(Reprint from the year 1940)

Image
The caption: The German Catholic priest of the Herz-Jesu-Kirche in Bromberg in silent prayer before the corpses of the murdered "Volksdeutsche" (ethnic Germans) in Bromberg.

The 300 pages text of the book contain on almost every page detailed descriptions of wrong doings, torture and murder as committed by Poles to ethnic Germans in areas which were originally German but became Polish after WWI.

I simply do not have the time to go in great detail through all of this and reproduce it here. It is also not really related to the "Holocaust", but rather to the beginning of WWII.

The Versailles Treaty decreed in 1919, that vast East German territories, about 8% of the German land, 50,000 sqkm, with over 4 million Germans living there, were annexed by Poland.

And this became a problem.

The book deals essentially with the forceful attempt by the Poles, to change the Germans who were living in the new won territories to become Polish citizens, or to make life so miserable for them that they would leave the land on their own and migrate to the West, to Germany.

The situation for ethnic Germans living at that time in that part of the world must have been horrific. The areas involved were Upper Silesia, and the Provinces around Posen and Bromberg.

The reports in the book are mostly sworn affidavits made by eye witnesses and reports from German embassies to the Foreign ministry.

The methods used in the beginning were beatings or even murder of ethnic Germans.

German cultural organizations were prohibited, so were singing of German folk songs.

German cemeteries were desecrated, churches damaged, German school books were not allowed, German real estate was confiscated, German business, trades and commerce were suppressed.

Then after the war with Germany started in September 1939 the situation turned ugly: According to the book about 58,000 ethnic German civilians were killed during this time until German troops arrived, including about 5000 in Blomberg alone during the so called Bloody Sunday in Blomberg.

A sample of the text:

"The Germans were led off in groups of 40, 50 or 100 and slaughtered.

36 murders were committed in the settlement Eichdorf, 39 at the Jesuit Sea, and 53 were killed in Kleinbartelsee. In the suburb Jägerhof near Bromberg were 62 German civilians murdered in one day.

In the mass grave of Slonsk (southeast of Thorn) were the corpses of 58 ethnic Germans discovered. A large mass grave was found in October 14, 1939, near Tarnowa (north of Turek) which contained the bodies of over a hundred beaten, murdered Germans, mutilated beyond recognition, taken from a deportation train.

In a mass grave which was discovered close to Alexandrowo were 40 ethnic Germans from Thorn and vicinity, mutilated to such an extent that only three bodies could be identified. (picture included).

Between Klodawa and Krosniewice in the Province of Posen were three mass graves, each with 20 terribly mutilated bodies of German farmers discovered and close to the village Tencynek they found 20 ethnic Germans in a mass grave, with tied hands.

On the road between Kutno and Lowitsch was a mass grave with the bodies of 26 mutilated and murdered ethnic German civilians discovered.

And the body of a single murdered ethnic German was thrown into an air raid ditch and a latrine for Polish soldiers was erected on top of it (according to the Posen Center for the graves of murdered ethnic Germans)."

And so on, and so on, 300 long pages.

I find it odd how the Germans could find those puny mass grave sites and the Jews have problems to find their 6 million dead.

fge

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:53 pm)

Sailor, I found an online copy of the book in English. At least it seems to be. While the site itself may be questionable, the book is horrifying. It is at: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm


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