Gas chamber at Majdanek with blue stains

[The Warden]

It appears Neander believes people wouldn't enter a room in a desperate attempt to survive an air raid even though the walls couldn't withstand a direct hit. And that's giving the people the benefit of the doubt that they even had the knowledge of the lack of resistance the walls would supply. Maybe he believes they simply stood in one spot and hoped they survived instead of taking cover, or perhaps they held their breath until the gas dissipated from the area?

[stefanob]

Joachim Neander says:

A peephole in the door makes sense if and only if the gassing process must be observed from outside.

Quite right.

For a delousing chamber, a peephole is never necessary: the exposition times are known,

For a gas chamber as well. Is it true or not that people were gassed in death camps at astounding rates of thousands each day? How much would it take to develop an expertise?

and an outside observer cannot see through the peephole whether all lice had died.

And for people? Victims would have been unconscious very soon, and then a peephole would have not revealed if they were still breathing.

I agree that a peep hole would have been handy for a gas chamber, even if not necessary. They could have needed it before they grew an expertise... I can't say a peephole makes no sense on the door of a gas chamber.
However, I believe it was very useful (if not more...) on a delousing chamber. I don't think only ONE person would operate it, there would have been a squad bringing clothes and mattresses and other items in... why not take a peek inside before releasing the gas? Hard to say it doesn't make sense.

To make up my mind about the Air Raid Shelter option, I just started reading an article by Carlo Mattogno against Samuel Crowell on the point. But I still vote for the delousing chamber. It has the peephole AND the window.

[Hannover]

Given the entire absurdity of the storyline, the complete lack of human remains, and even the lack of massive pits that the remains were supposedly dumped into, I definitely state that it's a delousing space which could have doubled as an air shelter, when not delousing, of course.

- Hannover

[Cloud]

For the so called HGCs, why did the Germans not choose a gas that would not leave behind any chemical residues whatsoever or choose to build the HGCs using material that would prevent the accumulation of these chemical residues? They were apparently so good at getting rid of all the other incriminating traces, yet failed to consider doing this..?

[joachim neander]

That's a good question, indeed. CO, for instance, which was also used at Majdanek in the beginning, IIRC, does not leave traces. Certainly when, since the fall of 1942, HCN was used, nobody in the SS thought (or better: was allowed to think) that Germany might lose the war, which could entail problems at sites such as Majdanek or Auschwitz.

[The Warden]

For the so called HGCs, why did the Germans not choose a gas that would not leave behind any chemical residues whatsoever or choose to build the HGCs using material that would prevent the accumulation of these chemical residues? They were apparently so good at getting rid of all the other incriminating traces, yet failed to consider doing this..?

Because they were delousing clothing.
Why would Germans feel the need to cover that up?

Leuchter agreed that he had designated one of the chambers at Majdanek a delousing facility. Asked why a delousing facility would require a peephole, he replied that it might be necessary to look into the chamber to see clothing being fumigated, but he could not know for what purpose the individual running the facility would be using the peephole. (32-9217) Leuchter pointed out that the standard procedure for delousing in most facilities was to place the Zyklon B material on the floor with whatever was in the room being deloused and then close and seal the door. The only provision for putting Zyklon B into this particular room was to place it on the floor by hand and close the door. He stated that it became very obvious that it could not have been an execution chamber because "no one is going to stand in a chamber while somebody with a gas mask puts poison gas pellets on the floor and then leaves." (32-9219) [Fred A. Leuchter] The 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988
http://www.whale.to/b/majdanek_h.html

Also recommended reading:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/

[HaaDeeCee]

The reason for the peep hole in the doors of the fumigation chambers may be due to the fact that these doors were, most likely, mass produced for use in air raid shelters.

And simply using an existing design and fabrication would be cheaper and faster than producing a new design.

[trevor]

Pressac published a photograph of a gas-tight door of the delousing gas chamber of Stammlager Block 1 with the caption:

"Gas-tight door of the gas chamber, of conventional design (made by the DAW) with its peephole and two locking bars..."
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0029.shtml





THE STAMMLAGER DELOUSING INSTALLATIONS chapter starts on page 23


Pressac is also publishing another photograph of the gas-tight door of the cyanide delousing chamber of Kanada I accompanied by this commentary:

"The gas-tight door of the Kanada I delousing chamber. Its construction, by the DAW, is very rudimentary. It had a peephole, a handle to open it and two iron bars..."
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0046.shtml

[Breker]

That's a good question, indeed. CO, for instance, which was also used at Majdanek in the beginning, IIRC, does not leave traces. Certainly when, since the fall of 1942, HCN was used, nobody in the SS thought (or better: was allowed to think) that Germany might lose the war, which could entail problems at sites such as Majdanek or Auschwitz.

Mr. Neander, please show us your proof of all of these allegations?
Breker

[Cloud]

Because they were delousing clothing.
Why would Germans feel the need to cover that up?

I know. The question was posed in order to cast doubt on the claim that those structures functioned as HGCs.

Also recommended reading:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/

I read that I believe last year. Many amusing parts throughout.

[Breker]

Neander said:

That's a good question, indeed. CO, for instance, which was also used at Majdanek in the beginning, IIRC, does not leave traces. Certainly when, since the fall of 1942, HCN was used, nobody in the SS thought (or better: was allowed to think) that Germany might lose the war, which could entail problems at sites such as Majdanek or Auschwitz.

Neander responded below, before it was pulled for not really answering, I assume.

"Allegation #1": CO does not leave traces.
Proof: Go to your library and look into an elementary textbook on chemistry.
"Allegation #2: Nobody in the SS thought (or was allowed to think) that Germany might lose the war.
Proof: The executions of so-called "defeatists" during the last weeks of the war. Go to your library and take a look into the many volumes of "Justiz und NS-Verbrechen," ed. Christiaan Rüter and Adelheid Rüter-Ehlermann, look under "Verbrechen der Endphase." (I presuppose that you, as seemingly an expert in Holocaust, know German and are able to read documents in their original language.)
"Allegation #3": Which could entail problems at sites such as Majdanek or Auschwitz.
Proof: The postwar trials of war criminals. These, indeed, created problems for the SS staff of these camps. Or would you like to deny this, too?

You have provided no proof that CO was used at Majdanek.
You have provided no proof that HCN was used at Majdanek.

Neander literally avoided answering my request for "proof of all of these allegations?"

Talk about disingenuous debate, well, Neander just enaged in it.
Breker

[joachim neander]

You have provided no proof that HCN was used at Majdanek.

Where did the "blue stains" mentioned in the thread's title come from, if not from HCN?
About the use of CO at Majdanek, I wrote "IIRC" (If I Remember Correctly). You can feel free to doubt my memory.
And please, Mr. (or Mrs. ?) Breker - be polite and address me by my full name. I'm not your recruit, and you aren't my sergeant.

[stefanob]

@HaaDeeCee
About gas tight doors being mass produced with peephole as a default
I had thought of this, it could explain these peepholes once and for all. Frankly, I don't find the peephole especially useful for any chamber, be it for killing lice or people, but photos by Pressac, posted by Trevor (Thank you Trevor!), demonstrate that delousing chambers DID have peepholes, as a matter of fact.

@joachim neander
I don't think one can demonstrate one point by mean of another point which is not proved as well (the use of CO)

[Breker]

You have provided no proof that HCN was used at Majdanek.

Where did the "blue stains" mentioned in the thread's title come from, if not from HCN?
About the use of CO at Majdanek, I wrote "IIRC" (If I Remember Correctly). You can feel free to doubt my memory.
And please, Mr. (or Mrs. ?) Breker - be polite and address me by my full name. I'm not your recruit, and you aren't my sergeant.

I protest your diversions.
I know and you know that the delousing area as shown in this thread was not the object of my question concerning HCN. Present proof of homicidal use of HCN at Majdanek.
On CO to kill Jews at Majdanek - 'if you remember correctly' ?? That's as bogus an excuse I have ever seen for avoiding answering hard questions.
What is your source for use of CO to kill Jews at Majdanek?
I've been away from this forum for some time, upon return I had hoped at least for a degree of sincerity from men like you. Neander, you do not deserve respect considering the disingenuous replies you are providing.
Breker

[Roadrunner]

Joachim Neander

That's a good question, indeed. CO, for instance, which was also used at Majdanek in the beginning, IIRC, does not leave traces. Certainly when, since the fall of 1942, HCN was used, nobody in the SS thought (or better: was allowed to think) that Germany might lose the war, which could entail problems at sites such as Majdanek or Auschwitz.

Breker

Present proof of homicidal use of HCN at Majdanek.

I find this very interesting as I believed there was agreement on both sides that no homicidal gassings happened at Majdanek.

Why no response from Mr. Neander?

Mr. Neander, would you please present the proof that Breker asked for?

I would very much like to see it if what you are saying is true.

Thank you.