Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

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Jazz
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Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Jazz » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:49 am)

Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer'

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Drawing by Mengele. 'Could be of interest to neo-Nazis'

Published: 07.24.11, 08:49 / Israel Jewish Scene

[b]US auction house's sale of manuscripts written by Nazi doctor for $300,000 draws criticism from leader of Holocaust survivors, who says business profiting off sale of one of worst mass murderers in history. Buyer asks to remain anonymous (...)

Rosensaft thinks the consignor got the journals from Mengele's family. He said the journals should have been given to a historical archive for scholars.(...)

Rosensaft said Mengele "selected" his aunt for the gas chambers in 1944, and many other relatives were killed in the Holocaust. He said his mother, who survived, saw Mengele knock a young woman to the ground, put a boot on her chest and hum a song while keeping his foot in place until she died.(...)

Mengele was one of the most wanted Nazi war criminals, a doctor who conducted cruel experiments on twins and dwarves at the Auschwitz concentration camp and killed children with lethal injections. He selected prisoners who would be subjected to his experiments and sent others straight to their death in gas chambers. (...)

The 3,400 pages of journal writings sold Thursday cover 1960 through 1975 when Mengele was hiding in South America. [b]Excerpts from his diaries appeared in 1985 in the weekly German magazine Bunte, which reported Mengele was terrified of being captured and tormented by sleeplessness but remained a Nazi to the end.(...)

In promoting the sale, Alexander said the journals were only sparingly quoted.(...)

The buyer spoke on condition of anonymity, saying he didn't want his private life disrupted. He described himself as the son of a Holocaust survivor who has collected 5,000 original documents related to the Holocaust and plans to open a museum at some point. (...)

He said in the right hands the documents can be used as a force for good to counter Holocaust deniers and to reject any philosophy that leads to discrimination.


Full article: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 45,00.html

I don't know what they're trying to prove with the doodles out of Mengele journal. The anonymous buyer probably meant "in the right hands the documents can be altered and used as a force for good to counter Holocaust deniers" :downtown:

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Goethe » 8 years 2 months ago (Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:48 pm)

I have yet to see a single shred of proof that Mengele did what he is claimed to have done. The Mengele fraud is just more lies within the bigger lie.
The power of brazen liars resides in the fact that their lies are so brazen and that most people can't imagine others lying so brazenly. IOW, it's hard for many to imagine that some people have no shame, no ethics, and seem to revel in lying.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 2 months ago (Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:26 am)

I am willing to credit that the Germans may well have carried out medical experiments on prisoners. I also think it likely that that the extent and seriousness were exaggerated for propaganda purposes and that many normal medical procedures have been misrepresented. Getting at the truth, though, is so difficult that that it is best to keep an open mind, to dismiss nothing, but not to accept anything without adequate evidence either. I have looked at the Wikipedia article on Mengele and there seems to be little of substance: second-hand reports of single-source testimony.

The point I wish to make, though, is that this is yet another case where the Germans were held up as monsters for something that the Allies also did. Among the cases we know of is the deliberate infection of Guatamalans with syphilis, no doubt justified by similar sentiments of racial inferiority as the Germans are accused of.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/guatemala-victims-us-syphilis-study?INTCMP=SRCH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Zulu » 8 years 2 months ago (Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:36 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:I am willing to credit that the Germans may well have carried out medical experiments on prisoners. I also think it likely that that the extent and seriousness were exaggerated for propaganda purposes and that many normal medical procedures have been misrepresented. Getting at the truth, though, is so difficult that that it is best to keep an open mind, to dismiss nothing, but not to accept anything without adequate evidence either. I have looked at the Wikipedia article on Mengele and there seems to be little of substance: second-hand reports of single-source testimony.

The point I wish to make, though, is that this is yet another case where the Germans were held up as monsters for something that the Allies also did. Among the cases we know of is the deliberate infection of Guatamalans with syphilis, no doubt justified by similar sentiments of racial inferiority as the Germans are accused of.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/guatemala-victims-us-syphilis-study?INTCMP=SRCH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment


I am afraid that the availability of an abundant cheap "human material" and, above all, the guarantee of privacy lead all kind of scientists towards the practice of their art without any ethical control. Such conditions are generally granted at hospitals, prisons or at prisoners camps not to mention the huge field of investigation offered by sub developed countries and their "ignorant" people.
There was no reason that Nazi Doctors behaved differently from their occidental or soviet colleagues. Nevertheless, I doubt that they had been particularly "barbaric" on their practices as it is usually reflected in testimonies of survivors who have all encountered Mengele. That "dramatic encounter" is the mandatory part of any recount of a survivor of Auschwitz. Incidentally, I am not sure if it was not Mengele himself who has worked on "borrowing" the tattoo of Irene Weisberg Zisblatt the famous eyewitness who amazingly escaped from her gassing..
Anyway, I read the trials' proceedings of the Nazi Doctors for their experiments on, for instance, cold water or low pressure and I would not be surprised at all whether the same kind of experiments were also conducted by the US Army to name a few. As an example, didn't they use human guinea pigs for the measures of atomic bombs radiations?

They were cheap and available: prisoners as research subjects in twentieth century America
by Allen M Hornblum, instructor, Department of Urban Studies, Temple University, Philadelphia, PA 19122-2585, USA
Published on 29 November 1997, British Medical Journal.

Introduction
On 20 August 1947 Gerhard Rose, one of Germany's most respected physicians, stood in the prisoner's dock at the Palace of Justice in Nuremberg, Germany, awaiting his sentence for “murders, tortures, and other atrocities committed in the name of medical science.” Dr Rose, the department head for tropical medicine of the Robert Koch Institute, was on trial along with 22 of his medical colleagues, for perpetrating “ghastly” and “hideous” experiments on concentration camp prisoners during the war.1

At one point in the trial when the chief prosecution witness, Dr Andrew C Ivy of the medical school of the University of Illinois, underscored the basic principle “that human experimental subjects must be volunteers,” Dr Rose and his defence counsel vigorously objected, arguing that the United States was guilty of similar medical practices and giving several examples to support this contention.1

..../

Summary points
- From the early years of this century, the use of prison inmates as raw material for medical experiments became an increasingly valuable component of American scientific research
- Testimony by American medical experts at Nuremberg allowed American physicians and researchers to believe that the Nuremberg Code was directed only at Nazi scientists.
- Postwar American research grew rapidly as prisoners became the backbone of a lucrative system predicated on utilitarian interests
- Uneducated and financially desperate prisoners “volunteered” for medical experiments that ranged from tropical and sexually transmitted diseases to polio, cancer, and chemical warfare.

.../
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. United States v Karl Brandt, et al. In: Trials of war criminals before the Nuremberg military tribunals under control council law.
Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1949: 718–10, 796:27-74.)

Full article (very interesting)
http://www.bmj.com/content/315/7120/1437.full


More

Tuskegee syphilis experiment

The Tuskegee syphilis experiment[1] (also known as the Tuskegee syphilis study or Public Health Service syphilis study) was an infamous clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama by the U.S. Public Health Service to study the natural progression of untreated syphilis in poor, rural black men who thought they were receiving free health care from the U.S. government.
“ For the most part, doctors and civil servants simply did their jobs. Some merely followed orders, others worked for the glory of science.”
— Dr John Heller, Director of the Public Health Service's Division of Venereal Diseases[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_s ... experiment

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Bonesy » 8 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:00 am)

Kingfisher wrote:I am willing to credit that the Germans may well have carried out medical experiments on prisoners. I also think it likely that that the extent and seriousness were exaggerated for propaganda purposes and that many normal medical procedures have been misrepresented.[/url]

The nail has been hit on the head with that analogy, Hannover. It's easy to see how smaller details get warped so wildly out of proportion. Especially when it's only one side telling the story.

Talk about "mountains being made from molehills".
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Charles Traynor » 8 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:37 am)

Josef Rudolf Mengele made medicine his profession because he was a sensitive and caring man who wanted to save lives. I’m sick of hearing Jews defame his good name with unsubstantiated slanders.

Thank goodness CODOH exists as a bastion of free speech where Jewish lies can be exposed in public for the vile deceptions they really are.
Rabbi Shlomo Risikin: "The [non-Jewish] world is divided into parts: those who actively participated with the Nazis and those who passively collaborated with them."

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Zulu » 8 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:25 am)

Charles Traynor wrote:Josef Rudolf Mengele made medicine his profession because he was a sensitive and caring man who wanted to save lives. I’m sick of hearing Jews defame his good name with unsubstantiated slanders.

Thank goodness CODOH exists as a bastion of free speech where Jewish lies can be exposed in public for the vile deceptions they really are.


Good articles to be read
Mengele’s unknown writings to be auctioned
by Thomas Kues
http://www.revblog.codoh.com/2011/07/me ... n-writing/

and
Mengele: The Complete Story, by Gerald L. Posner and John Ware (McGraw-Hill, New York 1986).
Reviewed by Thomas Kues
http://www.codoh.com/review/revmengele.html

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:19 pm)

Zulu wrote:Mengele: The Complete Story, by Gerald L. Posner and John Ware (McGraw-Hill, New York 1986).
Reviewed by Thomas Kues
http://www.codoh.com/review/revmengele.html

Thanks for that interesting link. I like Kues. He's objective, well-informed and easy to read.

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 2 months ago (Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:23 am)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the case that we do not know the contents of Mengele's writings, to this day?

WTF !

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 2 months ago (Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:41 pm)

SevenUp wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the case that we do not know the contents of Mengele's writings, to this day?

According to Kues that is correct,

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Re: Mengele journals sold to Jewish buyer

Postby Pappy Yokum » 8 years 2 months ago (Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:52 pm)

SevenUp wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the case that we do not know the contents of Mengele's writings, to this day?

WTF !


I believe that is correct. Some years ago I was told Mengele wrote a memoir titled "Let There Be Light" or the Latin equivalent. It has never been published.
Furthermore, Himmler kept a diary which is in the hands of the Israelis. I don't remember if it is in private hands or in possession of a public institution there, but it too remains unpublished and inaccessible.


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