George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

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Pappy Yokum
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George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Pappy Yokum » 6 years 5 months ago (Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:11 pm)

There is a documentary called THE SOVIET STORY about the history of Communist Russia. In it is a quote from the Irish playwright (Pygmalion) and Fabian Socialist George Bernard Shaw from February 1934. At around 20:30 into the film, a recording of Shaw describing how people need to justify their existence to society: Those who are a burden should be disposed of. Then at 21:44 the quote appears: "I 'appeal to the chemists to discover a humane gas that will kill instantly and painlessly. Deadly by all means, but humane, not cruel....'" Then the film proclaims that Zyklon B was that gas.

This, of course, is nonsense since, firstly, HCN was being used in executions since 1920, and, secondly, Zyklon B was developed as a fumigant and was not for use in murdering society's burdensome members.

This documentary highlights the murderous history of the Communist Russia and how mass murder is a feature of socialism from its very start as a political philosophy.
Emphasis on the close relationship between Socialist Russia and National Socialist Germany up to the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 is also repeated made.

What I found interesting, among other things, is that the idea of gassing large numbers of people to death at one time was bouncing around socialist circles years before the war started. Shaw, of course, made is musing about humane mass murder not long after Stalin had starved seven to nine million Ukrainians to death.
That being the case, it is not surprising that all one has to do is scan through some socialist's writings to find an endorsement of mass murder. Euthanasia, eugenics, and mass murder are all part of the socialist package. However, saying something doesn't make it so. Shaw endorsing the idea is not evidence the Irish or the English sent millions of their citizens to be gassed.
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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 5 months ago (Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:28 pm)

I watched some of this on YouTube. Holocaust apart, it perpetuates the myth that Hitler wanted a World War, that I'd have thought even most mainstream historians would find over simple today.

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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby mincuo » 6 years 5 months ago (Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:56 pm)

Interesting. I can add what I know about the subject "gas" and Bolshevism. The only two real episodes that I know concerning gassing are:

1) The orders signed by General Tuchachevsky in 1921, (some people, so called bandits, refugee in the woods were gassed. There were the top and operatives orders).
2) The invention of the gas vans. Those weren't invented by Nazis, but in USSR (dushegubki) by Isaiah Davidovich Berg (Jew) in 1936. They were generally black and disguised with the writing "bread delivery". Anyhow they didn't serve for mass-executions but more properly for targeted executions in the cities, just for not attracting too much attention.

May be the story of German gas vans have something to do with with the dushegubki (gas van) invented by Berg and used during Bolshevism. I was a little surprised that not one Revisionist studied that issue. Documents related to Berg were found some years ago.
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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Hans » 6 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:24 am)

mincuo wrote:Interesting. I can add what I know about the subject "gas" and Bolshevism. The only two real episodes that I know concerning gassing are:

1) The orders signed by General Tuchachevsky in 1921, (some people, so called bandits, refugee in the woods were gassed. There were the top and operatives orders).
2) The invention of the gas vans. Those weren't invented by Nazis, but in USSR (dushegubki) by Isaiah Davidovich Berg (Jew) in 1936. They were generally black and disguised with the writing "bread delivery". Anyhow they didn't serve for mass-executions but more properly for targeted executions in the cities, just for not attracting too much attention.


So can you show us these "top and operatives orders" with proof they are authentic at all and not planted by anti-communists? Can you show us the autopsy reports of those alleged gassed victims, forensic proof and physical evidence?

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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby stefanob » 6 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:09 pm)

Indeed, after considering how the supposed "mountains of evidences" about nazi crimes turned into faint suspicions, I only believe in every kind of "atrocity" when I really see evidences with my eyes. So what about these Soviet gas vans? Are there REAL proves or is it like the nazi ones?

Because the concept itself is not very likely... I mean, why the hell one would craft these modified vans? If one wants to execute somebody without making too much noise all he has to do is take him in some underground cellar (dictatorships usually have a few available) and shot/strangle/hang him.
I am not a native english speaker, so please forgive errors and weird syntax

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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby mincuo » 6 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:15 pm)

Perhaps due to my poor English I was a bit misunderstood. But I said: first: "what I Know about Bolshevism and gassing" not what is the Bible about that, nor I was claiming for a new law that will forbid any discussion about General Tuchachevsky, and his orders, because The General Tuchachevsky orders is a fact generally known that we cannot discuss. I'm not sure I said that. Secondl: I said "I am a little surprised that Revisionists didn't look into some of these issues" partucularly about Berg. Just because I'm more interested to see better into than to apply immediately a pro / contra view Mr Hans. Sry, my language is not English, as you see. I continue to read your arguments with respect and curiosity anyway.
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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Pappy Yokum » 6 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:19 pm)

stefanob wrote:Indeed, after considering how the supposed "mountains of evidences" about nazi crimes turned into faint suspicions, I only believe in every kind of "atrocity" when I really see evidences with my eyes. So what about these Soviet gas vans? Are there REAL proves or is it like the nazi ones?

Because the concept itself is not very likely... I mean, why the hell one would craft these modified vans? If one wants to execute somebody without making too much noise all he has to do is take him in some underground cellar (dictatorships usually have a few available) and shot/strangle/hang him.


Considering how stories about atrocious behaviour attributed to enemies in any conflict get recycled -such as the babies on bayonets story - I view Soviet gas van stories with the same suspicion I have for the Nazi ones. There is an argument that a gas van overcomplicates accomplishing mass murder. In circumstances where the goal is only to end a human life, then there is no point in going the custom van route. But, as I observed to an anesthesiologist who was critical of how complicated the state makes an execution of a criminal, making the condemned dead was not the only goal. Plausible deniability for the executioner is also needs to be achieved. If there was some reason a simple killing would not do, perhaps it would motivate going to the effort.

On the other hand, actually having to build a special gas chamber on wheels would not be necessary. Occassionally, the media reports groups of aliens being smuggled in a sealed truck cargo area being accidentally smothered while they were being transported. In a recent war situation, there is a story from the war in Afghanistan where prisoners were sealed in cargo containers where they suffocated. The trucks were then driven to a remote location where the containers were emptied into mass graves. Introducing a poison gas or engine exhaust is totally unneeded.

Back to the original point, Shaw has in his plea to chemists a goal other than finding a practical method of killing groups of people who can't pull their own weight. He wants a humane way to kill so that the idea of mass murder by "society" of undesireables would become acceptable. He wanted to make improvement of mankind through a culling of the population a painless process that would not weigh on his conscience.

The SOVIET STORY documentary falsely makes the argument that the Nazis took Shaw's prayer and answered it with the gas chambers at concentration camps. This being an example of a story about being careful of what one wishes for because the wish may come true, but not in the way the wisher invisioned it.

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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Hektor » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:32 am)

Kingfisher wrote:I watched some of this on YouTube. Holocaust apart, it perpetuates the myth that Hitler wanted a World War, that I'd have thought even most mainstream historians would find over simple today.

Indeed, a felt 40% of the movie deal with National Socialism and supposed NS-crimes, which are simply assumed without any evidence. This weakens the documentary character of it tremendously. It may however explain a certain degree of acceptance as we can read in the wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story

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Re: George Bernard Shaw and a humane gas

Postby Reviso » 2 weeks 14 hours ago (Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:09 pm)

Here is another source about Berg's gas vans :
" Valentin Kovalev quotes a statement from Isaiah Davidovich Berg, the former head of the administrative economic department of the Moscow oblast' NKVD, that he had participated in the construction of gas -vans ('dushegubki') in 1937 in order to gas to death those sentenced to be shot. Further confirmation is needed concerning this sensational claim. See Valenlin Kovalev, Dva Slalinskikh Narkoma (Moscow, Univers, 1995), p. 241.

It is here :
http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/WCR-German_Soviet.pdf


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