Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

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Carolyn Yeager
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:46 am)

Eric Hunt wrote:A translation of the Yiddish version of Night would settle this by revealing the age of the author

Download the Yiddish version here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FHWGCIE6

One can use this site http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/trans.html?mode=hebrew and take it page by page. It's hard to get the exact characters right, and every word should be double checked via google.

The age of the author should be stated within the first few pages.


Eric, you are practicing dodging here, which is one of the rules of the forum: No dodging. You stated flatly that Elie Wiesel was the author of Un di Velt ....
I replied, Tell me how you know that. If you can't tell me how you know that, then take back your unqualified statement. Telling me to read a Yiddish book via some automatic translator (letter by letter) is not an answer, because you yourself don't know what is in the Yiddish book. YOU read the Yiddish book and tell me where in it you find the proof for what you say ... if that is all you have to point to.

At the end of my last blog on EWCTW, I wrote:
My challenge: I welcome any native Polish Yiddish speaker/reader who is also fluent in English to prove me wrong about what I have written above by providing an honest, accurate translation of Un di Velt Hot Gesvign into English so it can be compared with Night. Why hasn’t this already been done? It’s natural to be suspicious of what is kept hidden. Let’s put everything on the table so that the questions I have raised can be cleared up.

It seems reasonable to me that if Un di Velt ... proved the authorship of Elie Wiesel, someone would have already translated it. There may be numerous problems with it.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:25 am)

Zulu wrote:Other strange fact: at the USHMM site there is no record neither for Tzipora nor for Sarah Vizel/Wiesel. Elie Wiesel is not recorded there as a survivor while his sister Beatrice appears as so on the records. In fact there are 2 Beatrice Wiesel registered with very similar data, the difference being the war time locations and the birth's years 1925 and 1924 in the same town Sighet (Romania).
My mistake, the record for Beatrice Wiesel born in 1925
Beatrice WIESEL, 1925.gif
and 1924
Beatrice WIESEL, 1924.gif


Hi again Zulu. You came up with something good here. The only source I've ever seen for Beatrice and Hilda Wiesel's incarceration is Sharit Ha Platah, which as it's described here by the USHMM (a trusted source, LOL) is a list of survivors (the name is translated "Holocaust Survivors or literally "Counted Remnant") published in 1946 by the Central Committee of Jews in Bavaria. It was published as a book with the names of 61, 387 Jews who "survived the (whatever they called it then; now it's called Holocaust)." As is common with Jewish accounting, Beatrice Wiesel is listed twice with two different birth dates, one year apart. No Hilda? There were 3 years between the two sisters, and supposedly Hilda in in this listing too.

But consider -- this list is the result of a rabbi, Abraham Klausner, who went around the DP camps as the Jews gathered in them, taking down names and info. This is not from official documents or German documents. The title is Counted Remnant -- the Jews counted themselves!

Oberföhring and Feldafing are both in the southernmost part of Bavaria, close together. Feldafing has a Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldafing#cite_note-1 It says:
During the Nazi era, Feldafing was the site of an elite school of the Nazi Party, the "Reichsschule Feldafing", and of a subcamp of the Dachau concentration camp.[2] After the end of World War II, Feldafing became part of the American zone of occupation. The military administration converted the former Reichsschule and the subcamp into the Feldafing displaced persons camp, part of a network of displaced persons camps for Jewish Holocaust survivors in the US Zone in Bavaria.

So the idea that Beatrice and Hilda were at Dachau, or Kaufering subcamp, or Feldafing subcamp, working, comes from them, not from official Nazi documents. I'm not saying they weren't there, but it is not as much of a certainty as one would like it to be. These are self-statements, it seems to me. A lot of people came into those DP camps from a lot of places. It's a fact that Jews got top priority, and no questions were asked. If you were a Jew, you were given the best accommodations, food, treatment.

This is very helpful. I hope you keep up your investigating, Zulu.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Eric Hunt » 8 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:38 am)

Carolyn Yeager wrote: So the idea that Beatrice and Hilda were at Dachau, or Kaufering subcamp, or Feldafing subcamp, working, comes from them, not from official Nazi documents.


Wrong again. And you definitely did see the German records I posted a year and a half ago, so you are now deliberately ignoring evidence in order to fit your false theories -

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6080&p=42316&hilit=dachau+wieselid=6ffc8f2b1a5b91d7624e5018c1a4dc65#p42316

wieselsisters.JPG


This list is from captured German Records held at the National Archives.

And no, I didn't dodge the fact that Eliezer and Elie are alternate names for someone named Lazar.

But you are dodging the fact that the original Yiddish book will definitively reveal the Yiddish author's age. In the time you spent falsely denying that Wiesel's sisters were in Dachau, you could have translated half a page.

According to an email from someone who is translating it, there is no mention yet within the first 3 pages of the author's age. So, start on page 4 or so.

Translating the Yiddish book and finding the age of the author would provide you with the "smoking gun" you're looking for, all the proof that Elie Wiesel stole an older man's identity and book !

It's not surprising you don't want to do something that would probably disprove Gruner's stupid lies, about the author of about 50 books in multiple languages, Elie Wiesel stealing another Elie Wiesel's book, and assuming his name and identity.

You are guiding revisionists way off course on the Wiesel issue.

Instead of denying that he wrote Night, stole the book and identity of another Elie Wiesel, denying that Wiesel's sisters were at Dachau - all absurd, all not true -

Revisionists should be finding more records concerning Wiesel, should be writing page by page deconstructions of the fictional Night, a video version would be great - and paying for a Yiddish translation of the original book would be a good idea.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:57 am)

Eric Hunt wrote:
Carolyn Yeager wrote: So the idea that Beatrice and Hilda were at Dachau, or Kaufering subcamp, or Feldafing subcamp, working, comes from them, not from official Nazi documents.


Wrong again. And you definitely did see the German records I posted a year and a half ago, so you are now deliberately ignoring evidence in order to fit your false theories -

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6080&p=42316&hilit=dachau+wieselid=6ffc8f2b1a5b91d7624e5018c1a4dc65#p42316

wieselsisters.JPG


This list is from captured German Records held at the National Archives.


Let's take one thing at a time. This record that you displayed IS from Sharit Ha Platah, and yes, you made it available to me. I have had it for about the time you say. As I recall, it was found thru a search at Ancestry.com. At the time, I went there and copied it, and wrote down in my notes that the source of the chart was Sharit Ha Platah. http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... 5&uidh=000 For me, even at that time, this was a questionable source, but I accepted it.

I don't think it is from "captured German Records" as you say. The National Archives may have it as part of "German records", I don't know (did you see it there?), but German records are not usually dressed up in shades of Lavender. :)

What Zulu found at USHMM has put this into place for me ... as of now. If there were "German records" listing Beatrice Wiesel the USHMM would certainly publish them. So would other sites. Instead, they only refer to Sharit Ha Platah. Bea's name in Romanian (or Yiddish?) was Batya. When did she start being called Bea? Would she not be listed in German records as Batya? I'm only wondering. If she chose to use the name Bea, she is the one who gave that information on herself ... to the rabbi. Be careful with your "Wrong again" comments, Eric. You have not yet shown me to be wrong at all.

For what it's worth, from Wikipedia: Beatrice (English pronunciation: /ˈbiː.ətrɪs/, Italian: [be.aˈtriːtʃe]) is a name derived from the Latin name Beatrix. It is a feminine form of the late Latin name Viator which meant "voyager, traveler". It was also a common name amongst early Christians, though the spelling was altered by association with the Latin beatus, meaning "blessed". The French form is Béatrice and the Spanish form is Beatriz. The popularity of the name spread because of Dante Alighieri's poetry about Beatrice Portinari.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:45 am)

Eric Hunt wrote:And no, I didn't dodge the fact that Eliezer and Elie are alternate names for someone named Lazar.

But you are dodging the fact that the original Yiddish book will definitively reveal the Yiddish author's age. In the time you spent falsely denying that Wiesel's sisters were in Dachau, you could have translated half a page.

According to an email from someone who is translating it, there is no mention yet within the first 3 pages of the author's age. So, start on page 4 or so.

Translating the Yiddish book and finding the age of the author would provide you with the "smoking gun" you're looking for, all the proof that Elie Wiesel stole an older man's identity and book !


1. You are making way too much out of the fact that Eliezer is the formal name for Eli and Lazar. There is no dispute about that and I made that point back in my early articles on EWCTW website. Why don't you read it? This "proves" absolutely nothing. There are hundreds of Eliezer Wiesels in the world; there is not only one!

2. Don't play the game of accusing me of what I said you were doing. You said you knew Elie Wiesel was the author of Un di Velt ... , but you don't know that at all. Yet you won't retract your statement or correct it to saying that is what you believe. Instead you are putting the onus on me to find a way to translate that book. I am supposed to prove your statements for you?!

3. Why is finding the age of the author the "smoking gun?" Will the story as told in Un di Velt be anymore truthful than other survivor stories? It is a basically fictional account also, but maybe with some different facts in it. So can you tell the age of the real author by reading the story? Perhaps not. I'm not dodging, but saying I want to see the whole book and judge it as a whole compared to Night. Why is there no author information in this book?????? Nothing! Just a name and then the story. No background information at all. That is very strange.

4. What we already know: The ending was changed dramatically to show a very different person. The Un di Velt author had already begun writing his memoir of his year in the camps as soon as he recovered from his life-threatening illness, while he was still in the Buchenwald hospital. He was far more political than Elie in Night. Only an older man could be so political, not a 16 year old.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:17 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:
It's not surprising you don't want to do something that would probably disprove Gruner's stupid lies, about the author of about 50 books in multiple languages, Elie Wiesel stealing another Elie Wiesel's book, and assuming his name and identity.

You are guiding revisionists way off course on the Wiesel issue.

Instead of denying that he wrote Night, stole the book and identity of another Elie Wiesel, denying that Wiesel's sisters were at Dachau - all absurd, all not true -

Revisionists should be finding more records concerning Wiesel, should be writing page by page deconstructions of the fictional Night, a video version would be great - and paying for a Yiddish translation of the original book would be a good idea.


Wow. You are hung up on Grüner, and defend Elie Wiesel so you can hurt Grüner and my findings. Instead of doing that, you should be looking for information about Wiesel, including his family and what happened to them.

I am the one who has been publishing newly found records and photos of/about Elie Wiesel on my website. You are working on other things, that's fine.

Instead of denying that he wrote Night,
Again, I do not deny he wrote Night, but that he wrote Un di Velt. Can you not appreciate the difference?

"Paying for a Yiddish translation" (you mean English) is not the only problem. It's finding someone who would do it ... honestly. Only Jews know Yiddish, so who would guarantee that the translation was accurate? You see the problem? It's probably not impossible, but very, very difficult to know where to turn.

I have done more deconstruction of Night (read it!) in several of the articles that appear on Elie Wiesel Cons the World, than you or any revisionist, I would wager. Don't preach to me about deconstructing Night.

Stand back and think all this through. I don't question your sincerity and integrity.
Last edited by Carolyn Yeager on Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Eric Hunt » 8 years 1 month ago (Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:27 am)

The list I posted was actually taken from captured German records, http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Holocaust/0050_DachauIndexing.html

The sisters didn't lie about being in Dachau or Auschwitz. And yea, in a sane world, this would be enough to put a stop to CODOH repeating the Gruner lies / madness as "truth."

You want the two sisters to have not been in Dachau either, because of course the whole family would have (and was) been taken to Auschwitz at one time - The sisters with the brother. Too bad, they were there. This should be enough to totally put a stop to this bogus theory.

But I'm sure you want us to believe those two sister Wiesels, (who look to be releated, especially the vindictive face on the one sister) ALSO stole identities (and were never in camps)? Or are playing a role?

And ELIE WIESEL wrote Night, the novel it's based on and the close to 50 books after in multiple language. Not a non-existent "LAZAR WIESEL" who has no record of being a writer.

Elie = LAZAR.

This is a total waste of time denying Wiesel and his sisters were at Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald, and it's way wrong. Totally false. And it's a very bad first impression to give people first becoming interested in revisionism.

Elie Wiesel Cons the World - "Elie Wiesel, is not Elie Wiesel, but stole a "Lazar Wiesel's" story, name, and identity! His sisters were never in any camps!"

You fell for the Cons of Gruner.

Why is CODOH, the world's largest Revisionist site pushing and desseminating scat-man Gruner's dumb lies as truth?

The lie, from Gruner, a Jew who was in the camps, and (is jealous of Wiesel),

- Is that

"Wiesel didn't "survive" the horrific, satanic Nazi "Death factories" Auschwitz and Buchenwald. He was never there, suffering alongside us Jews! In fact, he isn't even a Jew! Wiesel stole the identity of my close, older friend "Lazar Wiesel" and I decided to keep this secret, even after meeting him before his Nobel Prize acceptance...until that is..."Wiesel...or whoever he is!"....decided to ignore my letters to him in the 80's and 90's to support my Holocaust survivor organization / guilt scam!

Revisionists should be pointing out the truth - that Wiesel's two sisters, whom he totally downplays in "Night", were deliberately kept alive until the end of the war by the Germans. Wiesel was deliberately kept alive by the Germans, even being sent to the hospital. Hospitals...in a death camp! Wiese'ls father almost "survived" but disease - AKA Wiesel's "God" - killed him. (Wiesel tries to claim a Nazi rifle butt really did the trick!

But Carolyn, if the Yiddish book has the author state his age, as Wiesel does in Night, and it is the same age, they are the same people. Your entier claim rests on "Lazar Wiesel" being much older.

But if the Yiddish book describes the author as Elie's age - If you want to deny it, even after that, well, then you're going into a realm of parallel universes, and frankly I don't think we should be involved with that kind of stuff.

From Gruner's holohoax book "Stolen Identity"

Jews pooped on Gruner for 24 hours...don't let Gruner poop on revisionists - with his stupid Wiesel lies...

I was aware that they were going to make soap out of my fat, and a torch out
the rest of my body. By sitting and crying, I became so deliriously scared that
I lost my mind and not knowingly I fell through one of the holes in the latrine
my feet down. When I came to myself, I was sinking down in the excrement.
All of a sudden I started to panic and tried to work my way up to the edge of
the framework. Finally I managed to get to the corner and I was able to hold
myself up by hanging on to the wooden framework.

The situation I was in, the smell of the faeces, and the thoughts of what was
going to happen to me, kept me occupied, unconscious of the time when the
SS would start to search for me. When the time was up, I could hear the SS
shouting, the barking dogs, and other voices making a terrifying noise as they
dashed into the washroom, the barking dogs and the only thing I remember
hearing was the orchestra playing, the moving trucks and I thought that I hed
heard people screaming.

I started to come to myself. As I was standing in the shit, I realised that the
danger was over but that I had to wait until the situation became normal again.

The rush for the latrine began at five a.m: and I was the only living person on
earth watching this tremendous spectacle from below. Because the volume of
the shit was rising considerably and the substance I was standing in became
relatively warm and easier to make slight movements in to change position in
order to get ready for the attempt to get out of the filth in which I was standing
deeply in. By six a.m. the latrine was back to normal again. However I was
forced to wait until the night when I could get my freedom.

At six o'clock in the evening the spectacle began once again and lasted for a
couple of hours. By that time however the ammonia had got to my skin and the
reaction on my skin became hardly bearable.

About eleven p.m. I made my first attempt to get free. I made an attempt to
lift myself up to the edge of the opening ring to pull myself out of the filth.
Because the latrine's bottom was sharp, and leaning towards the middle, I
couldn't reach the edge, and in my desperation I jumped time and time again
to grab the edge of the hole, in order to pull myself out. Finally the first joint
of my finger got hold of the edge of the ring and my attempt succeeded. As I
was covered in shit, I went to the round washbasin, in the middle of the room
6 x 6 m., which was about 0.75 cm. high. Using the running water, I took my
jacket, and placed it on the floor and started to splash water with both of my
hands over the jacket. Soon after I pulled my trousers off and placed it on my
jacket and started to tramp on it until I felt that I had tramped the shit out of it.
After a last rinse I wrung the water out of my clothes with my hands. Finally I
washed myself, wiped the water off my body, put my clothes on and went out
of the washroom. Without hesitation I went straight to the barrack and knocked
on the superior's window. When he saw me, he started to break out in violence,
waving his fists, and then he threw a blanket at me through the window. It took
him about five minutes to come to the back of the barrack. He grabbed my arm
and dragged me to the hospital. Soon after I had been pushed into a shower,
got a white shirt, a glass of milk and was put to bed.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:45 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:The list I posted was actually taken from captured German records, http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Holocaust/0050_DachauIndexing.html


Was it now. :? The first paragraph says:

This project was started as a result of discussions between Joyce Field and Peter W. Landé, a Holocaust researcher. The source of this list is five reels of film from the larger collection called "Captured German Records" (189 reels, equivalent to 189,000 pages) held at the United States National Archives (NARA) in College Park, Maryland, under the heading "Liste inter Dachau 1-5" (see description of reels 15 through 19).

When I click on “reels 15 through 19” I get this:

Reel 15 (Liste inter Dachau 1 at NARA) Alphabetical typed list of Dachau prisoners prepared after WWII. Includes survivors (befreit). Generally includes name, date and place of birth and last residence, type of prisoner and what happened to that individual. Extensive use of abbreviations for camps to and from prisoners were sent. This reel includes names from Babel to Bystrom.
Reel 16 (Liste inter Dachau 2 at NARA) Same format as reel 15. Includes names beginning with the letter A and C-G.
Reel 17 (Liste inter Dachau 3 at NARA) Same format as two previous reels. Letters H-K.
Reel 18 (Liste inter Dachau 4 at NARA) Same format as previous reels. Letters L-Q.
Reel 19 (Liste inter Dachau 5 at NARA) Same format as previous reels for remainder of alphabet. Letters V-Z appear in mirror image.

My comment: What is prepared after WWII is not “official German Records;” it is, in the case of the Wiesel sisters, seemingly the rabbi’s list from the DP camp, published in Sharit Ha Platah (Counted Remnant).

If you have a real captured German record with their names on it, please show it.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:14 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:And ELIE WIESEL wrote Night, the novel it's based on and the close to 50 books after in multiple language. Not a non-existent "LAZAR WIESEL" who has no record of being a writer.


Correction: Wiesel has written all his books in French and they are translated into English … not by him! He has never written a book in Yiddish or any other language. (He may have written a few shorter things in English.)

As to your “… a non-existent "LAZAR WIESEL" ... Lazar Wiesel, birth date Sept. 4, 1913, Auschwitz number A-7713 and Buchenwald number 123565, is documented as being at these two camps, and is on transport lists. He is hardly “non-existent.”

I repeat: You would do yourself a favor to spend some time reading what is at Elie Wiesel Cons The World so you will stop talking so foolishly.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Eric Hunt » 8 years 1 month ago (Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:37 pm)

I guess if a post war alphabetized list (of course it was created after the war, it was alphabetized from existing records) created from captured German records isn't enough to convince you that Elie Wiesel's sisters are not fictional characters playing elaborate roles in whatever conspiracy you / Gruner are selling us on that begins in 1945 with two Jewish women lying about being in Dachau, maybe you should do more research and double check their prisoner numbers and transport arrivals.

Wiesel is the first person you or Gruner have ever "researched". You have no idea how common - in fact, the norm - totally incorrect dates are in wartime records. You deliberately ignore all proof of a Wiesel born in 1928.

You have preemptively told us you will ignore / deny forthcoming proof from the Yiddish book, within the author will likely state his age at the time of events, much like Wiesel opens up Night by saying in 1941 he was twelve.

I guess now you're denying that Wiesel knew and wrote in Yiddish. Good one ! Guess you'll have to explain his work for the Yiddish paper Zion in Kamf as an invention too.

And yea, this Lazar Wiesel you claim is not Elie Wiesel, but the original author of the Yiddish Night IS Elie Wiesel, therefore "did not exist."

Lazar, Lazare, Eliezer, or whatever variations you want, is Elie.

To sum up, CODOH runs and heavily promotes a website claiming to be the truth, but falsely claims -

That Elie Wiesel stole the Yiddish version of Night from the real Elie Wiesel oops Lazar, and "Elie Wiesel" and his sisters were never in any camps, and Elie Wiesel isn't Elie Wiesel, but is someone else who never wrote in Yiddish, and the real Elie Wiesel had nothing to say about his book being stolen.

Is this the truth? No. Far from it. It's a horrifically stupid, jealous lie from scatman Gruner.

Typical idiotic psychadelic lies from a Jew who lies about falling in an Auschwitz latrine and being shit on for an entire day before climbing out!

Gruner used to end his calls with me with his calling card phrase "Stay out of the shit!" What a sicko!

That CODOH wants to promote these lies as truth, from the mind of a demented Jew who has scatological Holohoax fantasies, is incredibly disapointing.

From Gruner's book "Stolen Identity" - would easily win the Holocaust Historiography project's Most Macabre Halloween Holocaust Tale Challenge.

I was aware that they were going to make soap out of my fat, and a torch out
the rest of my body. By sitting and crying, I became so deliriously scared that
I lost my mind and not knowingly I fell through one of the holes in the latrine
my feet down. When I came to myself, I was sinking down in the excrement.
All of a sudden I started to panic and tried to work my way up to the edge of
the framework. Finally I managed to get to the corner and I was able to hold
myself up by hanging on to the wooden framework.

The situation I was in, the smell of the faeces, and the thoughts of what was
going to happen to me, kept me occupied, unconscious of the time when the
SS would start to search for me. When the time was up, I could hear the SS
shouting, the barking dogs, and other voices making a terrifying noise as they
dashed into the washroom, the barking dogs and the only thing I remember
hearing was the orchestra playing, the moving trucks and I thought that I hed
heard people screaming.

I started to come to myself. As I was standing in the shit, I realised that the
danger was over but that I had to wait until the situation became normal again.

The rush for the latrine began at five a.m: and I was the only living person on
earth watching this tremendous spectacle from below. Because the volume of
the shit was rising considerably and the substance I was standing in became
relatively warm and easier to make slight movements in to change position in
order to get ready for the attempt to get out of the filth in which I was standing
deeply in. By six a.m. the latrine was back to normal again. However I was
forced to wait until the night when I could get my freedom.

At six o'clock in the evening the spectacle began once again and lasted for a
couple of hours. By that time however the ammonia had got to my skin and the
reaction on my skin became hardly bearable.

About eleven p.m. I made my first attempt to get free. I made an attempt to
lift myself up to the edge of the opening ring to pull myself out of the filth.
Because the latrine's bottom was sharp, and leaning towards the middle, I
couldn't reach the edge, and in my desperation I jumped time and time again
to grab the edge of the hole, in order to pull myself out. Finally the first joint
of my finger got hold of the edge of the ring and my attempt succeeded. As I
was covered in shit, I went to the round washbasin, in the middle of the room
6 x 6 m., which was about 0.75 cm. high. Using the running water, I took my
jacket, and placed it on the floor and started to splash water with both of my
hands over the jacket. Soon after I pulled my trousers off and placed it on my
jacket and started to tramp on it until I felt that I had tramped the shit out of it.
After a last rinse I wrung the water out of my clothes with my hands. Finally I
washed myself, wiped the water off my body, put my clothes on and went out
of the washroom. Without hesitation I went straight to the barrack and knocked
on the superior's window. When he saw me, he started to break out in violence,
waving his fists, and then he threw a blanket at me through the window. It took
him about five minutes to come to the back of the barrack. He grabbed my arm
and dragged me to the hospital. Soon after I had been pushed into a shower,
got a white shirt, a glass of milk and was put to bed.
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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:48 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:I guess if a post war alphabetized list (of course it was created after the war, it was alphabetized from existing records) created from captured German records isn't enough to convince you that Elie Wiesel's sisters are not fictional characters playing elaborate roles in whatever conspiracy you / Gruner are selling us on that begins in 1945 with two Jewish women lying about being in Dachau, maybe you should do more research and double check their prisoner numbers and transport arrivals.


Uh yeah, I did. This has become embarrassing. :( I ask the moderator to inform Eric that he keeps setting up the same strawmen and knocking them down ... and that this is against the rules. I've had enough.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 1 month ago (Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:08 am)

A professional translation of Un die welt... would be prohibitively expensive, so unless there is a Yiddish-reading revisionist willing to have a go...

I tried doing an OCR of the PDF file, and then putting it into Google Translate. The result is not good but at least gives you an idea. It's a slow process as the demo version of the OCR program will only export a page at a time and only to a maximum of 50 pages. Here are the first two pages of the four I've done. I don't know how far the weaknesses are due to the OCR and how far to Google Translate. The PDF quality is not good and there are a lot of readings marked "doubtful". Also, although Google have made a lot of progress with machine translation of the major languages, Yiddish is probably not a priority for them.
קאפיטל אײנם[
ד ע ד ג י ר ו ש
אין אנהײב איז געװען די אמונה־ די נארישע אמונה־ און דער בטחון׳
דער פוםטער בטחוןן און די אילוזיע, די געפערלעבע אילוזיע.
מיר האבן געגלײבט אין גאט. געהאט בטהזן אין מענטש און גע־ לעבט מיט דער אילוזיע, אז אין יעדן אײנעם פון אונדז׳ איז סאראן א הײליקער פונק פון פייער פון דער שכינה, אז יעדער אײנער פון אונדז טראגט אין זיך, אין זײנע אױגן אץ אץ זיץ נשמה. דעם צלם אלהים.
דאס איז געװען דער קוואל — אויב נישט די סיבה — פץ אלע אמדזערע אומגליקן,
*♦
*
איך דערמאן זיך־
אין יאר 1942 האט די אונגארישע רעגירינג ארויםגעגעבן א געזעץ׳
אז אלע יידן׳ װעלכע װעלן נישט קענען אײפװײזן זײער אינגארישע ביר־ גערשאפט װעלן פארשיקט װעח פץ לאנד.
׳מיר האבן געוװינט אץ םיגעט — די װיכטיקםטע שטאט אץ דער גרעםטער ױדישער ישוב פץ דער מארמאראש־פראװינץ. ביז דער ערש־ טער װעלט־מלחמה האט םיגעט געזזעדט צו עםטרײד־אונגארן. דערנאד איז זי געװארן צוגעטײלט צו דער רומענישער מלובה. אץ 1940 איז זי פונדאסױי צוריקגעגעבן געװארן אינגארן.

Chapter eynm
D by D C. J. R., and S.
In the beginning was the faith - the foolish faith - and the confidence '
The fur confidence and the iluzye, the dangerous iluzye.
We have believed in God. Had bthzn in person and ge - alive with the iluzye that in every one of us is Siron a holy point of fire of the divine presence, that every one of us bears in himself, in his eyes and and sit soul. The photographer God.
This was the source - if not the reason - fts all amdzere aumglikn,
* ♦
*
I remember to -
In year 1942, the Hungarian government issued a law
That all the Jews' which will not be able eyfveyzn their Hungarian beer - shop will sent when fts country.
"We have clothing and Migues - the major city and the largest oydisher City fts the marmarash - province. To the cradle - Tear world - war has Migues gezzedt to emtreyd - Hungary. Then she became assigned to the Romanian lender. And 1940 is fundasoyi back up Hungary.

די גזירה־רעה האט ארײנגעכראכט א טומל און א מורא אין די הערצער פון א סך יידישע משפחית. װי קען מען עפעס אויפוױיזן בירגער־ שאפטל קודם־בל דארף מען ברעגגען געבורטש־צײגענישן׳ אד מ׳איז גע־ בוידן געװארן און דװקא אין אוגגארן. װער אבער האט עס אמאל געהזןלטן פאר נײטיק צו פארשרײבן זײן בן־זכר אין אפיגיעלע רעגיםטערס נאך פאר ברית־מילהי
די צײט׳ װעלכע איז געגעבן געװארן די ילדן׳ בדי זיך צו פארשאפן די נײטיקע דאקומענטן, איז געװען א ביז גאר באגרענעצטע. אזױ, אז א סר ילזץ — ספעציעל פין די אתמיקע דערפער — האבן גארנישט גע־ קענט ברענגען צום ױם־הדין,
זענען זײ פארמשפט געװארן צו גירוש.
א ױנגל בין איך נאך דעמאלט געװען — קױט געװארן בר־מצוה —
אבער די גירוש־בילדער זענען אייף אײביק מיר פארבליבן אײנגעקריצט אין זכרון•
הונדערטער יידן זענען געבראכט געװארן צו אונדז אין שטאט. וױי־
ניק געפעק מיט זיד געהאט. סארוױינטע, פארזארגטע. די קהלה האט אר־ גאניזירט אקציעס. צו העלפן די אומגליקלעכע. יידן האבן געגעבן געלט, פרױען האבן געזאמלט קלײדער, ױנגע בתורים און מײדלעך האבן גע* ברזזכט װאסער און ברויט צו דער באן־סטאציע,
די פארמשפטע זענען פארשלאסן געװארן אין א לאננן- שװארצן. פאראבלטן צוג, װעלכער האט זײ פארפירט אויף אײביק און איבערגע־ לאזט הינטער זיך א געדיכטן׳ שמוציקן רויך.
דער צוג איז אוועק, איז פארשװונדן און מער האבן מיר די פאר־ שיקטע ױדן נישט געזען.
פארשידענע קלאנגען זענען ארומגעגאנגען אין שטאט־ אז זײ גע•
פינען זיך ערבעץ־וװ אין גאליציע (אונדזער שטעטל ליגט נישט וױיט פון דער גאליצישער גרענעץ), אז ױי ארבעטן דארט און זענען צופרידן.
קײנער האט נישט געפרװום קאנטראלירן די ריבטיקײט פון די א קלאנגען. יעדער האט געגלײבט אין זײער אױטענטישקײט. לײכטער געװען אזױ. פארװאס װארפן דעס שאטן פון ספק אױף בארױקנדיקע היפאקרי- טישע ידיעות?

The cut - bad has tabled a noise and a fear in the hearts of many Jewish families. How can any show citizen - shaftl first - Bell must bring birth - tseygenishn 'Ed we are ge - bow up and only in Hungary. But did it once gehznltn necessary to impose his son - a male in official regimters yet to ally - word
The time, which is given to the Jews' bdi to cause the necessary documents, was a totally limited. So, when a sr Elites - especially pin the asmike villages - have nothing ge - can bring to oym - justice,
They were condemned to deportation.
A oyngl I still was - Coit up Bar - Mitzvah -
But the expulsion - images are forever we remained marked in memory •
Hundreds of Jews were brought to us in town. Alas -
Nick Peck with zid had. Sarveynte, furnished. The parish was for - ganizirt stock. To help the miserable. Jews were given money, women have collected clothing, oynge men and meydlekh have ge * brzzkht water and bread to the Ban - station,
The formed are closed up in a long - black. Parabolic train, which had them away forever and iberge - is back to a poem, dirty smoke.
The train is away, is gone and more we have the pre-sent and give not seen.
Different sounds are handled in town - when they ge •
Occur erbets - which in Galicia (our town is not far from the Gaelic border), that they work there and are happy.
None had not tried to check the accuracy of the A sounds. Each has believed in their authentic. Easily be so. Why throw the shadow of doubt on baroykndike hifakri - Genetic information?

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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:34 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:A professional translation of Un die welt... would be prohibitively expensive, so unless there is a Yiddish-reading revisionist willing to have a go...

I tried doing an OCR of the PDF file, and then putting it into Google Translate. The result is not good but at least gives you an idea. It's a slow process as the demo version of the OCR program will only export a page at a time and only to a maximum of 50 pages. Here are the first two pages of the four I've done. I don't know how far the weaknesses are due to the OCR and how far to Google Translate. The PDF quality is not good and there are a lot of readings marked "doubtful". Also, although Google have made a lot of progress with machine translation of the major languages, Yiddish is probably not a priority for them.


Thanks for offering this. "Prohibitively expensive" is a relative concept, so we would have to know just what kind of money we're talking about.

As you say, this translation is not satisfactory, but it does give "an idea." I notice there is as yet no mention of Moishe the Beadle (maybe he's coming up?) and this phrase: "A oyngl I still was - Coit up Bar - Mitzvah - But the expulsion - images are forever we remained marked in memory." Does this mean the narrator "I" (I will not say author) was coming up to Bar Mitzvah or had just been Bar Mitzvah-ed? A Jewish boy automatically becomes a bar mitzvah upon reaching the age of 13 years. In the original La Nuit (Night), Eliezer says of his age, upon arriving at Auschwitz, "I'm not quite fifteen yet." It was May 1944. Elie Wiesel, in May 1944, would have been "going on 16" or 15 years and 8 months of age. Therefore, the new 2006 translation by his wife Marion was changed to "15 years."
In La Nuit, the boy goes on to tell the SS officer that he was 18 years old. So the original 14 and 8 months-year-old passed himself off as an 18 year-old.

Kingfisher, will you please post the other two pages you have done? And how about doing some more? :D I will write to Norman Finklestein about getting a translation of the book and see where that leads.
Last edited by Carolyn Yeager on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 1 month ago (Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:45 pm)

I just remembered where I saw the translation of the beginning of Un di velt. It is in Elie Wiesel's preface to the 2006 new translation of Night. He presents it as:

In the beginning there was faith--which is childish; trust--which is vain; and illusion--which is dangerous.
We believed in God, trusted in man, and lived with the illusion that every one of us has been entrusted with a sacred spark from the Shekhinah's flame; that every one of us carries in his eyes and in his soul a reflection of God's image.
That was the source if not the cause of all our ordeals.


Compare this to your automatic translation:
In the beginning was the faith - the foolish faith - and the confidence '
The fur confidence and the iluzye, the dangerous iluzye.
We have believed in God. Had bthzn in person and ge - alive with the iluzye that in every one of us is Siron a holy point of fire of the divine presence, that every one of us bears in himself, in his eyes and and sit soul. The photographer God.
This was the source - if not the reason - fts all amdzere aumglikn,
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this the end of Elie Wiesel?

Postby Eric Hunt » 8 years 1 month ago (Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:19 pm)

The translation has to be done word for word here -

http://stevemorse.org/hebrew/trans.html?mode=yiddish

And then words that don't come out right need to be doublechecked via google, the right one is usually found.

I did this a long time ago, but have gotten better. I will do some pages, but don't want to repeat any other might want to do.

Of course these need to be edited -

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6146&hilit=yiddish+wiesel

a1.gif

This book is dedicated to the eternal memory of my mother Sarah, my father Shlomoh, and my little sister Tsiporah, who were murdered by the German killers.
159.gif

On January 15, my right foot began to swell. Probably from the cold. I felt horrible pain. I could not walk a few steps. I went to the hospital. The doctor examined the swollen foot and said: It must be operated. If you will wait longer, he said, your toes will have to be cut off and then the whole foot will have to be amputated. That was all I needed! Even in normal times, I was afraid of surgery. Because of the blood. Because of bodily pain. And now - under these circumstances! Indeed, we had really great doctors in the camp. The most famous specialists from Europe. But the means they had to their disposition were poor, miserable. The Germans were not interested in curing sick prisoners. Just the opposite.
If it had been dependent on me, I would not have agreed to the operation. I would have liked to wait. But it did not depend on me. I was not asked at all. The doctor decided to operate, and that was it. The choice was in his hands, not in mine. I really felt a little bit of joy in my heart that he had decided upon me.
244.gif

245.gif
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