BBC article on 'denial' by Lipstadt

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Mkk
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Re: BBC article on 'denial' by Lipstadt

Postby Mkk » 7 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:59 am)

After rereading my post here, I have a few other points to make:

For example, Otto Ohlendorf, commander of one of the Einsatzgruppen units, testified quite openly that between June 1941 and 1942 his Einsatzgruppe murdered 90,000 people.

I point the reader to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1182&hilit=Otto+Ohlendorf

Deniers dismiss confessions by German perpetrators that a 'Final Solution' to the 'Jewish question' was indeed a part of the Nazi programme - by saying the confessions were produced under torture.

I know of one specific example, that of Julius Streicher who said at Nuremberg that, in 1935 and the Nuremberg race laws, he thought the final solution had been put into place by then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct0cuJLHrvg

Rudolf Höss, who described the mass murders that took place in his camp in a document written after he had been sentenced to death.

I quote C. Mattogno:
In fact, the sentence in the Höss trial was pronounced on April 2, 1947, and
he was executed on April 16, but his notes date from the period between November 1946, and February 1947. It is really unbelievable that the author
is unaware of such basic dates in the historiography of the holocaust.


It also fails to account for Adolf Eichmann who, in the memoir he wrote during his trial, spoke of the gassing of the Jews.

In terms of Eichmann's testimony, a few points:
Adolf Eichmann testified during his trial in Jerusalem that he had visited three camps were carbon monoxide was allegedly used to exterminate Jews: Chełmno (Kulmhof), Treblinka, and an unidentified camp in the Lublin area commonly assumed to have been Bełżec. Only in regard to the first camp does Eichmann claim to have witnessed the bodies of the alleged victims. This is how Eichmann described the murder of Jews in “gas vans” at Chełmno:

“I went myself to a small wood and just as I got there the omnibus also arrived, it pulled up beside a pit which had been dug up, the doors were opened and out of them poured corpses, down into the pit. One upon the other. It was a ghastly inferno. No, a super-inferno. To me they looked as if they were still alive. But now each and all of them were dead.”[37]

Thus according to Eichmann the corpses of the victims looked the same way as when they had been alive. The vagueness of the description makes the testimony weak evidence in any case, but it might be safely assumed that Eichmann would have noticed and remembered large red discolorations on the corpses from the gas vans, if he had in fact seen any.

Adolf Eichmann, the wartime head of the SS Jewish affairs section, said in 1961 during pre-trial interrogation in Israel that during the war he "was told" that Jews were gassed at Treblinka "with potassium cyanide." (note 19)Jochen von Lang, ed., Eichmann Interrogated (New York: 1983), p. 84.; See also: R. Aschenauer, ed., Ich, Adolf Eichmann (1980), pp. 179, 183.

See this video: http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/mo ... 8_mov.html
And this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6479&hilit=eichmann

In the same letter the employee asked about preheating the areas that would be used as the gas chamber. If these were morgues they should be cooled, not preheated. Heating a gas chamber, on the other hand, would speed the gassing process by more quickly vaporising the gas from the Zyklon B.]

Lipstadt doesn't mention this heating system was never actually installed. in any case, that's in winter/early spring so there is still the possibility the corpses could freeze.

Deniers have said for years that physical evidence is lacking because they have seen no holes in the roof of the Birkenau gas chamber where the Zyklon was poured in. (In some of the gas chambers the Zyklon B was poured in through the roof, while in others it was thrown in through the windows.) The roof was dynamited at war's end, and today lies broken in pieces, but three of the four original holes were positively identified in a recent paper. Their location in the concrete matches with eyewitness testimony, aerial photos from 1944, and a ground photo from 1943. The physical evidence shows unmistakably that the Zyklon holes were cast into the concrete when the building was constructed.

The paper she is reffering to is, I believe, this one: http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/18-al.pdf See the chapter "the elusive holes of death". As for the photos etc., those have been refuted a thousand times by revisionists. Our poor Deborah either doesn't know of or ignores this paper.

David Irving, a man who has written many books on World War Two, a number of which deny the Holocaust.

Not that I can say much, but as far as I know Irving denied that Hitler had any knowledge of the Holocaust. That's it.

This, but all Irving really denies is the claim Auchwitz was used for extermination. He believes in everything else.

It is also an attack on reasoned inquiry

Debbie, you're the one who is against "reasoned inquiry" against the "Holocaust".

Holocaust deniers have, thus far, been decidedly unsuccessful in convincing the broader public of their claims

I direct the reader to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4161&hilit
About 1/3 of those polled say they don't believe the Holocaust happened, and another 15 percent are unsure. That was nearly 5 years ago, presumably the number is closer to 50 percent of skeptics now. Over a half don't want any more Holocaust teaching. Scroll down to the bottom of the thread for examples from other countries. Ofcourse, the myth of anti -Semitic revisionism fall's on it's face here, because I don't think half of Germany's population is Neo-Nazi.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: BBC article on 'denial' by Lipstadt

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:13 pm)

Good stuff, Mkk.

A few observations on some individual points.

Deniers dismiss confessions by German perpetrators that a 'Final Solution' to the 'Jewish question' was indeed a part of the Nazi programme - by saying the confessions were produced under torture.

Although it is generally agreed that torture was probably not used on the accused at the IMT, it was used on Hoess, and how can anyone believe that the Jews in the Polish Secret Police of notorious repute did not. Indeed, given what we know, I would have thought that the default position in most cases must be to assume torture in the absence of contrary evidence.

This is how Eichmann described the murder of Jews in “gas vans” at Chełmno:

“I went myself to a small wood and just as I got there the omnibus also arrived, it pulled up beside a pit which had been dug up, the doors were opened and out of them poured corpses, down into the pit. One upon the other. It was a ghastly inferno. No, a super-inferno. To me they looked as if they were still alive. But now each and all of them were dead.”[37]

Thus according to Eichmann the corpses of the victims looked the same way as when they had been alive. The vagueness of the description makes the testimony weak evidence in any case, but it might be safely assumed that Eichmann would have noticed and remembered large red discolorations on the corpses from the gas vans, if he had in fact seen any.

Eichmann would, of course, probably have said anything he was told to say, but seeing corpses delivered for burial is no evidence that the corpses were murder victims. In his recent book The Gas Vans Santiago Alvarez suggests that the vehicles described as alleged gas vans were probably for transporting dead typhus victims.

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Re: BBC article on 'denial' by Lipstadt

Postby Hannover » 7 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:15 pm)

When discussing the laughable 'gas vans', the question that needs to be asked of Lipstadt is, why would it be necessary to create fraudulent 'documents' to support the storyline? Read here as investigative research debunks the 'gas vans'.

'phoney gas vans / J. McCarthy & 'holocaust' Hist. Proj.'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73

as for Eichmann, excerpt from link given:
Adolf Eichmann also denied discussing gas chambers with Wetzel [a central character in the fraudulent 'gas vans' stories]. According
to Raul Hilberg (The Destruction of the European Jews, 1985, page 875, 24n):


"In Jerusalem, Eichmann declared that he had NOT discussed gas chambers with Wetzel. Eichmann trial transcript, June 23, 1961, sess. 78, p. R1; July 17, 1961, sess. 98, p. Bb1."


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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