Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

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Steven Willow
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Steven Willow » 7 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:53 am)

The point of the medical experiments is to portray the Nazis as callous and cruel, hence morally capable of genocide. Note that all the publicised, so called Nazi medical experiments were infamously focused on inflicting terrible pain and suffering - amputating limbs, inflicting gangrene, freezing, decompression - a virtual horror collection of torture, degradation and fear.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/holocaust/ ... .html#alti

We never hear about Nazis attempting to treat diabetes, cancer or heart disease in these experiments since the purpose of these tales is to paint Nazi doctors like Mengele and Rascher as sadistic monsters. Indeed, this portrait of Nazi doctors should be viewed as nothing more than props for the Hoax. We seldom hear of the far more cruel experiments conducted by Japanese physicians in WW II, or of the many cruel experiments undertaken by doctors in the USA.

One should ask two questions: who benefits from the lies about Nazi doctors and what unethical experiments have been conducted by our own medical authorities?

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Mkk » 7 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:12 am)

I sometimes wonder about the validity of these so called "medical experiments". I'm not saying that no such experiments took place, but as usual, what did happen needs to be put in context, both as to why the experiments were carried out and what experiments were carried out in other countries.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Steven Willow » 7 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:18 am)

Mkk wrote:I sometimes wonder about the validity of these so called "medical experiments". I'm not saying that no such experiments took place, but as usual, what did happen needs to be put in context, both as to why the experiments were carried out and what experiments were carried out in other countries.


Exactly. What the believers allege is far and away the most extreme distortion of the context of these so called experiments. In the following Hoaxter video, it is alleged that Dr Carl Clauberg (who appears to be very jewish looking) undertook the task of developing a mass sterilization program to ultimately be applied to Europe's Slavic population. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr0fwLux7WA If this were true, it would reinforce the Hoaxter notion that the big H was just one part of a gigantic Nazi racial program to enforce a program of genetic hierarchy.

The liewitnesses in this video are not jews, but show the power of the Hoaxters to distort and fabricate among people of wide ranging background.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Pappy Yokum » 7 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:33 pm)

Steven Willow wrote:The point of the medical experiments is to portray the Nazis as callous and cruel, hence morally capable of genocide. Note that all the publicised, so called Nazi medical experiments were infamously focused on inflicting terrible pain and suffering - amputating limbs, inflicting gangrene, freezing, decompression - a virtual horror collection of torture, degradation and fear.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/holocaust/ ... .html#alti

We never hear about Nazis attempting to treat diabetes, cancer or heart disease in these experiments since the purpose of these tales is to paint Nazi doctors like Mengele and Rascher as sadistic monsters. Indeed, this portrait of Nazi doctors should be viewed as nothing more than props for the Hoax. We seldom hear of the far more cruel experiments conducted by Japanese physicians in WW II, or of the many cruel experiments undertaken by doctors in the USA.

One should ask two questions: who benefits from the lies about Nazi doctors and what unethical experiments have been conducted by our own medical authorities?


No. That is not what I mean. If the Nazis were actually doing these experiments, what is it one might learn from suspending a person from the ceiling in a parachute harness until they died? I see this picture and the other picture, but why would anyone do that in the interest of science? I can see these pictures being faked by the British or Americans or Russians, but why would anyone hang someone like that? Other than getting one's sadistic jollies, what would the scientific justification for doing that? How could that enhance human medical knowledge? In what context do the Allies say these pictures were taken?

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 7 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:17 pm)

A bit more on parachute T-7

"Have you looked closely at the pictures? In addition to the four corner straps that meet at the central clasp, the American T-7 model you've shown us has a fifth strap that reaches in from the wearer's left side:"

Kladderadatsch ,please have a look.

Parachute Model T-7, Paratrooper
Image

T-7 Parachute and Harness, above left and right photo.
This T-7 Parachute and Harness was produced by Joshua DeJong in 2011. It is a one hundred percent
complete replica of the original T-7 Parachute Assembly produced during World War Two. All of the
material used in the construction: the webbing, hardware and olive drab fabric are original and were
produced during World War Two. Only the construction and assembly of this parachute assembly was
conducted after World War Two.
http://www.questmasters.us/Parachute_T7_Replica.html

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Steven Willow
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Steven Willow » 7 years 3 months ago (Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:01 am)

Pappy Yokum wrote:
Steven Willow wrote:The point of the medical experiments is to portray the Nazis as callous and cruel, hence morally capable of genocide. Note that all the publicised, so called Nazi medical experiments were infamously focused on inflicting terrible pain and suffering - amputating limbs, inflicting gangrene, freezing, decompression - a virtual horror collection of torture, degradation and fear.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/holocaust/ ... .html#alti

We never hear about Nazis attempting to treat diabetes, cancer or heart disease in these experiments since the purpose of these tales is to paint Nazi doctors like Mengele and Rascher as sadistic monsters. Indeed, this portrait of Nazi doctors should be viewed as nothing more than props for the Hoax. We seldom hear of the far more cruel experiments conducted by Japanese physicians in WW II, or of the many cruel experiments undertaken by doctors in the USA.

One should ask two questions: who benefits from the lies about Nazi doctors and what unethical experiments have been conducted by our own medical authorities?


No. That is not what I mean. If the Nazis were actually doing these experiments, what is it one might learn from suspending a person from the ceiling in a parachute harness until they died? I see this picture and the other picture, but why would anyone do that in the interest of science? I can see these pictures being faked by the British or Americans or Russians, but why would anyone hang someone like that? Other than getting one's sadistic jollies, what would the scientific justification for doing that? How could that enhance human medical knowledge? In what context do the Allies say these pictures were taken?


The problems are even worse than just parachute types or experiment format, Pappy. Supposedly, these high altitude experiments were designed to duplicate atmospheric pressure at up to 68,000 ft. At 30-35,000 ft temperatures are 70 degrees below zero with winds hundreds of miles an hour so that death by freezing would be nearly instantaneous for anyone equipped with less than a modern, pressurised space suit. Obviously, such experiments would only make sense if cutting edge technologically sophisticated gear were used, and whether or not these parachutes were American, German or Haitian, no sophisticated technology is evident in these flagrently fake pictures.

The other issue is, of course, security and secrecy. Can anyone in there right mind imagine that German authorities would allow photos of these experiments to be taken? The photos provide no scientific evidence and look like staged stills. According to the holo-narrative, the Auschwitz sonderkommandos had to smuggle a camera to take 3 poor quality, fuzzy, grainy snapshots at a less than optimal distance of so called cremations. And yet we have these perfectly clear glossies of experiments that made little sense but were damning to the German medical staff at several camps.

We all know that there are hundreds of phony photos of Einsatzgruppen executions, so why would we assume that these photos of Nazi medical experiments have any more authenticity than any other holo-shots? For the record, I would doubt that even the Americans would be stupid enough to use an American parachute to concoct phony stills. But it really is quite beside the point when one considers how senseless the whole Nazi medical experiment business is.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Kladderadatsch » 7 years 3 months ago (Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:18 am)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:A bit more on parachute T-7 . . .

Parachute Model T-7, Paratrooper
Image



Yes, Jerzy, now that really does look like the harness in the "high altitude experiment" pictures. (The side loops at the bottom are the deciding detail.) If you want to prove your case, however, I think that you'll have to find documentation in actual WWII pictures of the harness in use as well; otherwise, you'll have believers claiming that the reconstructed harness is not authentic somehow. (Also, I have to admit I'm still a little puzzled about the side strap in the American harness in the other picture you posted. Perhaps that wasn't a T7 after all? Or is there more to the harness than is pictured in the reconstruction? Perhaps a piece that's removable . . . which would explain why it's not in the "experiment" pictures as well?)

Anyway, if the picture you've provided above is accurate, then yes I do think you can make a case that the "high altitude experiment" photos are staged fakes on the basis of the harnesses used. But as I said earlier, it's the Luftwaffe harness that you have to use for comparison, not the Fallschirmjaeger. That doesn't make for as visually striking a contrast, of course, but if you look closely the differences are clear enough. If you just show the Fallschirmjaeger harness, however, people will think you're trying to trick them.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 7 years 3 months ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:42 am)

This time without parachute :D
From my holo-collection :
Popular on holo-ortodox sites few years ago :
"Vicitm of medical experiments inside the low pressure..high pressure... what ever... chamber" :D

Image

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Pappy Yokum » 7 years 3 months ago (Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:57 pm)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:This time without parachute :D
From my holo-collection :
Popular on holo-ortodox sites few years ago :
"Vicitm of medical experiments inside the low pressure..high pressure... what ever... chamber" :D

Image

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek


If I understand correctly, the point of the experiment is to test the limits of human endurance in extreme environments. This one was for high altitude and low temperature and atmospheric conditions. That is plausible, but I don't see the point of putting someone in a parachute harness and suspending him from pipes in
in a depressurized room. Put him in a chair. The effects from cold or lack of air are not going to change. Also, there is going to be wind to contend with in such situations. There would be no wind in a sealed chamber. Like with Mengele, I would like to see some documentation for these experiments - grant application/proposal, who funded it, when they experiments took place, who was involved, what was the results. A couple of photos don't count for much especially considering the people presenting them as evidence of something.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Zulu » 7 years 2 months ago (Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:36 am)

Steven Willow wrote:One should ask two questions: who benefits from the lies about Nazi doctors and what unethical experiments have been conducted by our own medical authorities?

Among some interesting postwar experiments, I would add this one led by the CIA: The Project MKULTRA
Project MKUltra, or MK-Ultra, was a covert, illegal human research program into behavioral modification run by the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Office of Scientific Intelligence. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and finally halted in 1973.[1] It controversially used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects.[2][3][4][5] MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[6]

The research was undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.[7] The CIA would operate through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions would be aware of the CIA's involvement.[8] MKUltra was allocated 6 percent of total CIA funds.[9
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1- Jo Thomas (03 Sep 1977). "C.I.A SAYS IT FOUND MORE SECRET PAPERS ON BEHAVIOR CONTROL: SENATE PANEL PUTS OFF HEARING TO STUDY DATA DOZEN WITNESSES SAID TO HAVE MISLED INQUIRY C.I.A. TELLS OF FINDING SECRET DATA". New York Times.
2- Richelson, JT (ed.) (2001-09-10). "Science, Technology and the CIA: A National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book". George Washington University. Retrieved 2009-06-12.
3- a b c "Project MKUltra, the CIA's Program of Research into Behavioral Modification. Joint Hearing before the Select Committee on Intelligence and the Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research of the Committee on Human Resources, United State Senate, Ninety-Fifth Congress, First Session". U.S. Government Printing Office (copy hosted at the New York Times website). August 8, 1977. Retrieved 2010-04-18.
4- "Chapter 3, part 4: Supreme Court Dissents Invoke the Nuremberg Code: CIA and DOD Human Subjects Research Scandals". Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments Final Report. Retrieved 2005-08-24.
5- "The Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, Foreign and Military Intelligence". Church Committee report, no. 94-755, 94th Cong., 2d Sess.. Washington, D.C..: United States Congress. 1976. p. 392.
6- Dick Russell (2008). On the trail of the JFK assassins. Skyhorse Publishing. p. 273.
7- a b Nicholas M Horrock (04 Aug 1977). "80 INSTITUTIONS USED IN C.I.A MIND STUDIES: ADMIRAL TURNER TELLS SENATORS OF BEHAVIOR CONTROL RESEARCH BARS DRUG TESTING NOW". New York Times.
8- a b http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nat ... KULTRA.pdf
9- The Rough Guide To Conspiracy Theories By James McConnachie, Robin Tudge 192

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby tyger » 7 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:59 am)

I understand that data from the cold water experiments has been used in later research into the development of survival suits. That would seem to indicate that the Germans did use prisoners as guineapigs.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Hannover » 7 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:10 pm)

tyger wrote:I understand that data from the cold water experiments has been used in later research into the development of survival suits. That would seem to indicate that the Germans did use prisoners as guineapigs.

May we please see this "data" and "later research"? Thanks.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Hektor » 7 years 1 month ago (Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:...
No doubt, if Mengele had been found alive in Brazil and had been put on trial, he would have been given a death sentence and no justice at all. He was not some minor Nazi but already a major subject in the Belsen Trial. Mengele was and still ia a kind of poster boy for Nazi, even German, fiendishness and utter depravity. That even today there is no shred of real evidence of any atrocious misconduct on his part--only shows how hoaky the entire "holocaust" hoax really is. Some day, Jews will be distancing themselves from shameless quacks like Lifton and Hilberg. "Lifton and Hilberg were merely figments of neo-Nazi ranting"--but their books may still remain to prove otherwise.
...

Here is an downloadable interview with Lifton:
http://archive.org/details/WitnessToAnE ... uceShapiro
After 30:00 and especially 39:00ff - 39:55 - 40:35 - 41:00 he admits his personal bias when dealing with "Nazi doctors".

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby astro3 » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:32 am)

Thomas Kues, book review Mengele: The Complete Story
http://codoh.com/library/document/484/
Joseph Mengele is an archetypal modern figure, as 'the most vilified doctor in human history' - Thomas Kues.
I don’t have anything to hide. Terrible things happened at Auschwitz, and I did my best to help. One could not do everything. There were terrible disasters there. I could only save so many. I never killed anyone or hurt anyone. I can prove I am innocent of what they could say against me. I am building the facts for my defense. I want to turn myself in and be cleared at a trial.

- Mengele, just after the war to a chemist in Munich (p.67) Explaining what he meant above by 'terrible things' (from Mengele’s autobiography) (p.73):
“It is natural and understandable that the camps were suffering very bad hunger after all the problems and therefore I saw what was to be expected.”

In another writing in 1945 (p.80-81) Mengele points out that the Allied newsreels depicting skeletal concentration camp prisoners and piles of corpses showed a situation caused by a breakdown of infrastructure due to Allied bombing.

In another piece (p.154) he notes, “The political lie triumphs and time and history have been warped and bowed.” Yes indeed, 'the political lie' has triumphed.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Hektor » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:22 am)

Would be great to get the text of "Mengele: the complete story".
Actually Mengele just states what any sober reasonable person would interpret the data like.


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