Red Cross Death Count

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borjastick
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Red Cross Death Count

Postby borjastick » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:47 am)

The document below purports to be from the International Red Cross and is dated 1979. The list it contains shows revised concentration camps death totals. These revisions date from 1973 to 1978. They show a total death rate of about 271,000. What were they doing thirty years after the war ended to be able to revise figures, up or down? On what basis?

Can anyone inform me of the role the Red Cross undertook this far after the war ended, 30 + years, and if this document could be real or fake? I would guess this document if real does not include speculative mass deaths by any means such as gassing etc. I also suspect the figure is based on 'real bodies' and not any claims of millions gassed and then burned. In other words actual corpses found at the end of the war.
holocaustredcross.jpg


I wonder what evidence these figures is based on. Given that I totally refure that millions or even any prisoners were gassed and as such the six million figure is, as we all know, a myth, this figure of 271,000 is about where I think the truth lies.
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:31 pm)

You're right, borjastick, that one can't get an answer from the Red Cross about this document. The Red Cross was taken over by the Jewish Holocaust Corporation (heh, heh) in the 1970's, like everything else, and the "new management" works to confuse the issue. The best they say is what you mentioned ... that this represents only the officially recorded deaths in the records that do exist (which is not all), but not the millions of those gassed immediately without registering them. So that's how they get around it.

The document does speak, I think, to people who "want the truth" and it remains as a thorn in side of the JHC (or HI) that they have to explain.
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby SKcz » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:21 pm)

This report is inaccurate propably because of year when it was released or they didn´t use all documents.

Revisionists put number of victims of important concentration camps to almost half a million.

Germar Rudolf (Ed.) Dissecting the Holocaust The Growing Critique of 'Truth' and 'Memory', pp. 283-309.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndGraf.html#ftnref72

I don´t know about "taking over" of RC by Jewish corporation in 70´s, this seems to be incorrect because letter from 1993 show slightly revised number which is only a little bit higher.


Officially certified deaths in German concentration camps*

Auschwitz 60,056
Bergen-Belsen 6,853
Buchenwald 20,687
Dachau 18,456
Flossenbürg 18,334
Groß-Rosen 10,951
Majdanek 8,831
Mauthausen 78,859
Mittelbau 7,468
Natzweiler 4,431
Neuengamme 5,785
Ravensbrück 3,639
Sachsenhausen 5,014
Stutthof 12,634
Theresienstadt 29,375
Others 4,704

TOTAL 296,077

* Letter of the Tracing Center of the International Committee of the Red Cross, data from Jan. 1, 1993

LECTURES ON THE HOLOCAUST, Germar Rudolf, 2005-2010, p. 40
http://holocausthandbooks.com/15/


According to Germar Rudolf, they simply stopped to publish these data because of critique.

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby borjastick » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:32 pm)

Thanks to both of you for your answers.

Frankly I am left with a conclusion that if these figures are acceptable, I think they are, then if one adds a reasonable number for ghetto deaths and those from actions by locals in the eastern territories and einsatzgruppen, I still cannot get to a figure of over 400,000.

Somewhat short of six million, and not a sign of a gas chamber...
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:25 pm)

borjastick wrote:Thanks to both of you for your answers.

Frankly I am left with a conclusion that if these figures are acceptable, I think they are, then if one adds a reasonable number for ghetto deaths and those from actions by locals in the eastern territories and einsatzgruppen, I still cannot get to a figure of over 400,000.

Somewhat short of six million, and not a sign of a gas chamber...


That is correct. SKcz is adding estimated "unofficial deaths" which is what Germar Rudolf and other revisionists were doing to come to the figures they do. But the question here is about the Red Cross document ... what it means.

From SKcz:
I don´t know about "taking over" of RC by Jewish corporation in 70´s, this seems to be incorrect because letter from 1993 show slightly revised number which is only a little bit higher.

These are still presented as only the officially recorded deaths. Today's Red Cross does not question the gas chambers or the figures in the millions. They blow smoke all over the issue. I know, I've looked through the applicable documents on their websites. In the 1970's the persons in charge developed Jewish names. Why don't you write to them and see what you can find out?
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby White Wolf » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:05 pm)

Thanks Carol and SKcz.

I've used those numbers from the RC on many sites and can willingly admit up to the 500,000 that many revisionists have used in the past.

It would be interesting to find out more about the judification of the Red Cross.
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby SKcz » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:24 pm)

Carolyn Yeager wrote:
borjastick wrote:Thanks to both of you for your answers.

Frankly I am left with a conclusion that if these figures are acceptable, I think they are, then if one adds a reasonable number for ghetto deaths and those from actions by locals in the eastern territories and einsatzgruppen, I still cannot get to a figure of over 400,000.

Somewhat short of six million, and not a sign of a gas chamber...


That is correct. SKcz is adding estimated "unofficial deaths" which is what Germar Rudolf and other revisionists were doing to come to the figures they do. But the question here is about the Red Cross document ... what it means.

From SKcz:
I don´t know about "taking over" of RC by Jewish corporation in 70´s, this seems to be incorrect because letter from 1993 show slightly revised number which is only a little bit higher.

These are still presented as only the officially recorded deaths. Today's Red Cross does not question the gas chambers or the figures in the millions. They blow smoke all over the issue. I know, I've looked through the applicable documents on their websites. In the 1970's the persons in charge developed Jewish names. Why don't you write to them and see what you can find out?


Germar Rudolf´s explanation sounds more plausible to me, they don´t publish these data becuase of strong critique, why to think about some Jewish taking over when we have more logical explanation? I am not aware of any questioning of gas chambers from Red Cross, so if they did not questioned them in the past, is logical that they did not question them even today.

Almost whole Final total figure from revisionists is based on documents as is written in link which I provided. Figure from Red Cross is underestimated.

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:00 pm)

SKcz wrote:why to think about some Jewish taking over


If there were not de facto control of the Red Cross by the Jews then the Red Cross would publish their data and the number of deaths that the data indicates.

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:11 pm)

SKcz wrote:
Germar Rudolf´s explanation sounds more plausible to me, they don´t publish these data becuase of strong critique, why to think about some Jewish taking over when we have more logical explanation? I am not aware of any questioning of gas chambers from Red Cross, so if they did not questioned them in the past, is logical that they did not question them even today.

Almost whole Final total figure from revisionists is based on documents as is written in link which I provided. Figure from Red Cross is underestimated.


SKcz, Do you think the Jews don't run the Red Cross? What is there that they are not a part of, behind he scenes if necessary. Name me something. They're even in all the Christian churches. And as soon as they are part of something, they begin to run it.

I said the Red Cross did not question the gas chambers, meaning they are silent about it. Even though they have no reports of their representatives seeing or hearing about gas chambers at the time they were visiting the camps, they don't stand up and say so. They cooperate. They also, since 2005 that I know of, explain away those figures as not the "real" numbers. You say Revisionists do also. Okay, but revisionists say why and give figures. The Red Cross doesn't. If you say they do, then publish what their final numbers are.
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:34 pm)

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/docum ... 020205.htm

ICRC in WW II: the Holocaust
02-02-2005

A brief account of events related to the holocaust and to ICRC activities during the Second World War. (It's all about Jews - cy) The last paragraph reads:

By taking part in the 1995 ceremony to commemorate the liber ation of the Auschwitz camp, the President of the International Committee of the Red Cross, Cornelio Sommaruga, sought to show that the organization was fully aware of the gravity of the Holocaust and the need to keep the memory of it alive, so as to prevent any repetition of it. He paid tribute to all those who had suffered or lost their lives during the war and publicly regretted the past mistakes and shortcomings of the Red Cross with regard to the victims of the concentration camps.


And, http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/19/us/re ... e-war.html

Red Cross Admits Knowing of the Holocaust During the War, written by IRVIN MOLOTSKY. Published: December 19, 1996

The Red Cross has long acknowledged its awareness of the treatment of Jews during World War II, maintaining that if it had disclosed what it knew, it would have lost its ability to inspect prisoner of war camps on both sides of the front.


''The International Committee of the Red Cross has shared responsibility for the silence of the world community,'' Georges Willemin, the organization's archivist, said today. ''Could we have gone further? Could we have done more? I don't know.''
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:41 pm)

The Red Cross can't say they saw gas chambers, but they can go along with everything else.

Red Cross apologizes for Holocaust silence
Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Oct. 8th, 1997

NEW YORK - Add the Red Cross to the list of groups that have recently apologized for remaining silent during the Holocaust.

The director of archives for the International Red Cross, George Willemin, acknowledged this week the organization's "moral failure" at a ceremony at the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. He also delivered 60,000 pages of Red Cross documents to be given to three Jewish museums.

The Red Cross apology came days after the French Roman Catholic Church issued a statement of repentance for its silence during the persecution of Jews in Nazi-occupied France.

The ICRC, which is based in Switzerland, discounted reports of a 1940 mass murder in Lublin, Poland, according to a statement from Yad Vashem. This was not its only failure.

As reports of extermination camps began to spread in 1944, the Red Cross visited the Theresienstadt ghetto in Czechoslovakia at the invitation of the Nazis. The Nazis cleaned up the ghetto by lessening overcrowded conditions by sending prisoners to Auschwitz and adding a bank, shops and schools.
The ruse worked. The Red Cross reported that allegations of extermination camps were unfounded. In the latter stages of the war, the Red Cross did work with Jewish organizations in rescuing Jews, according to Yehuda Bauer, the director of research at Yad Vashem.


Same story in the NYTimes:

World News Briefs; Red Cross Admits Failing To Condemn Holocaust
Published: October 08, 1997

The Red Cross handed over 60,000 World War II-era documents to an Israeli archive today and admitted a ''moral failure'' in not having spoken out against the Nazi genocide that killed six million Jews.

The Red Cross ''admits -- yes -- that it has kept silent with regard to the Holocaust, and I would say that this is the heart of the moral failure,'' said George Willemin, archive director for the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross.

The statement follows an apology by the Roman Catholic Church in France last week on its silence over French collaboration with the Holocaust.

The documents, on 30 reels of microfilm, were given to Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust memorial. They are also being given to the Holocaust Museum in Washington and the Jewish Documentation Center in Paris.
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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Inquisitor » 8 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:59 am)

Carolyn Yeager wrote:The Red Cross can't say they saw gas chambers, but they can go along with everything else.

Red Cross apologizes for Holocaust silence
Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Oct. 8th, 1997

NEW YORK - Add the Red Cross to the list of groups that have recently apologized for remaining silent during the Holocaust.

The director of archives for the International Red Cross, George Willemin, acknowledged this week the organization's "moral failure" at a ceremony at the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. He also delivered 60,000 pages of Red Cross documents to be given to three Jewish museums.

The Red Cross apology came days after the French Roman Catholic Church issued a statement of repentance for its silence during the persecution of Jews in Nazi-occupied France.

The ICRC, which is based in Switzerland, discounted reports of a 1940 mass murder in Lublin, Poland, according to a statement from Yad Vashem. This was not its only failure.

As reports of extermination camps began to spread in 1944, the Red Cross visited the Theresienstadt ghetto in Czechoslovakia at the invitation of the Nazis. The Nazis cleaned up the ghetto by lessening overcrowded conditions by sending prisoners to Auschwitz and adding a bank, shops and schools.
The ruse worked. The Red Cross reported that allegations of extermination camps were unfounded. In the latter stages of the war, the Red Cross did work with Jewish organizations in rescuing Jews, according to Yehuda Bauer, the director of research at Yad Vashem.


Same story in the NYTimes:

World News Briefs; Red Cross Admits Failing To Condemn Holocaust
Published: October 08, 1997

The Red Cross handed over 60,000 World War II-era documents to an Israeli archive today and admitted a ''moral failure'' in not having spoken out against the Nazi genocide that killed six million Jews.

The Red Cross ''admits -- yes -- that it has kept silent with regard to the Holocaust, and I would say that this is the heart of the moral failure,'' said George Willemin, archive director for the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross.

The statement follows an apology by the Roman Catholic Church in France last week on its silence over French collaboration with the Holocaust.

The documents, on 30 reels of microfilm, were given to Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust memorial. They are also being given to the Holocaust Museum in Washington and the Jewish Documentation Center in Paris.


What nakedly transparent politically motivated groveling THAT all is!! That otherwise sane people still keep playing this sick game is truly beyond comprehension!!

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby SKcz » 8 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:20 pm)

Ok, I must admit that there is something very rotten with Red Cross in later 90s and later years, it really looks like that some 180 degree turn did happen in Red Cross with all these claims that they "knew" and that they were incorrect about "victims" and other strange claims whic simply doesn´t make any sense and contradict everything else before when they simply didn´t see "elephant". They were frightened or taken over, I don´t see other reasons why to make such a claims.

You are right Carolyn and others, I agree.

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby astro3 » 7 years 11 months ago (Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:17 pm)

Exact Red Cross Arithmetic, 1978-91
So we’ve here looked at a 1978 Red Cross document totting up death totals for 13 camps. Then we’ve also seen a 1991 letter from Bad-Arolsen giving totals for 15 camps, plus ‘others.’ Let’s also add in, a 1983 document from Bad-Arolsen that likewise totted up deaths in the 15 camps.
You might want to read the comments by ‘Kladderedatch’ here about the 1983 Arolsen text, where he shows a picture of it: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6924&start=15

Its clear that a very careful counting has taken place by the 1RC over three stages: 1978, 1984 and 1991, let’s compare them. I give figures in thousands, to one decimal place ie to the nearest hundred. I compare the first four camp totals (in alphabetical order):
(this doesn't seem to take spaces so I've had to put hyphens insted)
---------------------------------1978--------------1983-------------1991
Auschwitz----------------------52.4k-------------53.6--------------60.1
Bergen-Belsen------------------6.5---------------6.8----------------6.9
Buchenwald 20k---------------20.5--------------20.7---------------20.7
Dachau-------------------------17.8-------------18.4----------- --18.4
Totals of all camps:------271k (N=13)----282k (15 + ‘others’)--296k (15 + ‘others’)

I suggest these show a careful and methodical counting going on, with a slow total increment as more data is acquired.

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Re: Red Cross Death Count

Postby Wings » 7 years 11 months ago (Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:45 pm)

Anyone have any links to period documents ( or if not that, then, at least, what we might hope to be credible research, ) which outline Cause of Death for these people?


Say, among the ( or a ) regular Population, of, however many million...over say, 10 years, how many will die of various causes? And, if famine, disease or privation occur to select populations, how many may be noted to have died?

Etc...


How many people, all tolled, had been the various Camps?

And, is there info which tabulated the deaths year by year, or, moth by month, along with attributiuon of cause?


How many of these deaths occurred at the close of the War?

Etc...


How many regular non interned Germans died? or How many per 100,000 say?


On and on...


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