Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

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Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Clem » 7 years 7 months ago (Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:49 pm)

This should add some fuel to the Treblinka debate:


First we had "father" patrick desbois' - "holocaust by bullets," now we have thomas kues' - "holocaust by train."



http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537


thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6804&start=60#p49361


Quote:
8 ) Sturdy Colls’s statement that “the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence [of mass graves] led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here” implies that the presence of mass graves itself would be enough to refute the “deniers”. However, it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed at Treblinka, even if it was in fact only a transit camp. Holocaust historian Dieter Pohl estimates that up to 5 % of the deportees to the Reinhardt camps perished en route due to suffocation, dehydration, crushing caused by panicking deportees etc.[19] Considering that the reception of transports at Treblinka during the intense initial months of operation is claimed to have been grossly mismanaged by the first camp commandant, Dr. Irmfried Eberl (who, apparently because of this reason, was fired and replaced by Franz Stangl), leading to the delay of transports at way stations [20] – and this in the summer heat of July and August – there is little reason to doubt this estimate with regard to Treblinka. Since some 800,000 Jews in total were deported to Treblinka during the camp’s period of operation (July 1942 – August 1943), this would mean a total of some 40,000 en route deaths. Moreover, there are reasons to assume that a smaller percentage of the deportees were subjected to “euthanasia” due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport. To this should be added a smaller number of deaths among the camp inmates caused by epidemics etc, as well as those killed by guards in connection with attempts at escape or uprisings.


Really? Well now, that is most certainly news to me. I would really like to get more information about these phantom "euthanized and DOA at the Reinhardt camps" jews.

Hopefully thomas has the courage, integrity and character to defend his allegations.


thomas, for each of the 4 alleged "holocausts within the holocaust" of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, please answer the following simple questions:


Part 1


A - Can you provide the name of - JUST ONE - jew - WITH PROOF - (i.e. - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that there isn’t even the slightest possibility that they could have died at a different time) who “perished en route” while being transited to this Reinhardt camp - Yes. - or - No. ??

B - What is - THE MAXIMUM NUMBER - of jew names that you can provide - WITH PROOF - who “perished en route” while being transited to this Reinhardt camp?


kues' answers:

1 - Belzec - ? - ?

2 - Chelmno - ? - ?

3 - Sobibor - ? - ?

4 - Treblinka - ? - ?


C - From your list of alleged "proven with 100 % DOA jews," what is - THE ONE NAME - of - THE ONE JEW - that you believe there is - THE MOST PROOF - that said alleged "DOA jew" - “perished en route” while being transited to one of the Reinhardt camps?


kues' answer: - ?


* * * * *

Part 2


A - Can you provide the name of - JUST ONE - jew - WITH PROOF - (i.e. - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that there isn’t even the slightest possibility that they could have died by some other means) who was “euthanized” after being transited to this Reinhardt camp - Yes. - or - No. ??

B - What is - THE MAXIMUM NUMBER - of jew names that you can provide - WITH PROOF - who were “euthanized” after being transited to this Reinhardt camp?


kues' answers:

1 - Belzec - ? - ?

2 - Chelmno - ? - ?

3 - Sobibor - ? - ?

4 - Treblinka - ? - ?


C - From your list of alleged "proven with 100 % euthanized jews," what is - THE ONE NAME - of - THE ONE JEW - that you believe there is - THE MOST PROOF - that said alleged "euthanized jew" - was “euthanized” after being transited to one of the Reinhardt camps?


kues' answer: - ?



Will holo-exaggerator thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues answer these simple questions - or will he show the world that so-called “revisionists” do not have any more courage, integrity or character than the holohoaxers?

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!


[...]

Let's take a closer look at what thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues, who believes that - "it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed" - at the Reinhardt camps, is trying to say here.



http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537


Mr. Kues answers to these questions should be very interesting.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Hannover » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:11 am)

Clem, if, as I understand your position, it's 'there's no sense in throwing them a bone', then I agree.

However, given the number of transports to Treblinka and to all the transfer & labor camps for that matter, and these transports were quite large, it's only logical that there would be deaths which would necessitate graves. Anytime there is a large number people, regardless of the circumstances you have deaths. Look at small towns, deaths everyday, sporting events, you name it, people die. Death is part of life.

No doubt at Treblinka there were deaths from natural causes, disease, executions of partisans/terrorists, those engaged in crime, saboteurs, etc, hence we would have graves, nothing 'holocaustic' about it. But claims as in the absurdly claimed '900,000 Jews in a few pits' category, no way. Not even close. Laughable.

I believe that Kues is perhaps going too far with his use of 'estimates' and conjecture. But it would make sense that were some deaths while in transport, WWII was disease ridden everywhere, under many circumstances, though I see no reason to exaggerate them via the likes of "Holocaust historian Dieter Pohl" and his "5%". It is certainly in a man like Pohl's interest to exaggerate, he makes a living off of the whole absurd affair. Hardly a reliable source of information.

And the latest fiasco at Treblinka doesn't even support that position. That is why it will be hushed, or quietly explained away since they found nothing at all to support the claims within the 'holocaust' storyline.

Throw them a bone? No way, concessions have not been warranted.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:57 am)

I don't think Kues is "throwing a bone" at all, and there is no reason why he should be expected to answer those absurd questions.

He is saying that even if relatively large graves, of several thousand, even into tens of thousand, bodies were found this would not be evidence of a holocaust as currently understood. It would be evidence at worst for criminal disregard for human life or at best for a breakdown of infrastructure leading to unintended loss of life.

Far from "throwing a bone", he is covering Revisionism against misrepresentation of possible superficially but falsely apparent damaging evidence.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Clem » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:09 am)

Kingfisher:

Far from "throwing a bone", he is covering Revisionism against misrepresentation of possible superficially but falsely apparent damaging evidence.



No he's not, he's alleging a Holocaust by train at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka. To the tune of over 100,000 Holocausted Jews.

Just like the Jews allege a Holocaust by bullets and gassing.

I agree with Gerdes: "He reminds me of of the turncoat david irving."

And I think the questions are fair and balanced:


First we had "father" patrick desbois' - "holocaust by bullets," now we have thomas kues' - "holocaust by train."

Let's take a closer look at what thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues, who believes that - "it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed" - at the Reinhardt camps, is trying to say here.

Using the 5% DOA figure that kues endorses and figures taken from the - http://nafcash.com/ - site (5 % of 1.9 million), plus the "smaller percentage of the deportees [who] were subjected to “euthanasia” due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport" - plus - "a smaller number of deaths among the camp inmates caused by epidemics etc, as well as those killed by guards in connection with attempts at escape or uprisings," we can figure that kues believes that over 100,000 jews died - en route to and at - the Reinhardt camps.

So of course this begs the questions - thomas:


#1 - How many of the fraudulently alleged 54 “huge mass graves” at - Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka - can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?

#2 - Do you have the courage, integrity and character to complete - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - “huge mass graves / just one gassed jew” questionnaire? ( http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=9&t=3453 )

#3 - Do you have the courage, integrity and character to accept - THE N.A.F.H. CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM ? ( http://nafcash.com/ )


Will holo-exaggerator thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues answer these simple questions - or will he show the world that so-called “revisionists” do not have any more courage, integrity or character than the holohoaxers?

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen!



My position on this is it looks like Thamas Kues, by refusing to answer some very simple questions regarding his claims, is showing the world that he does not have any more courage, integrity or character than the holohoaxers.


http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537
Last edited by Clem on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:07 pm)

Clem wrote:Kingfisher:
Far from "throwing a bone", he is covering Revisionism against misrepresentation of possible superficially but falsely apparent damaging evidence.

No he's not, he's alleging a Holocaust by train at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka. To the tune of over 100,000 Holocausted Jews.

You are misrepresenting what Kues said. He is saying that, based on an orthodox historian's assessment, even if they can demonstrate 40K plus deaths they do not represent a Holocaust but at worst criminal disregard for human life or at best the unintended result of a breakdown in infrastructure, neither of which supports the extermination thesis.

Clem wrote:And I think the questions are fair and balanced:

There is no reason whatsoever why Kues should know the name of someone who died in transit. The assertion that he should is absurd.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:45 pm)

Jews were gassed in trains as well:

Image

The Baltimore Sun - October 25, 1943
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/acc ... (1837-1985)&desc=HOME-FRONT+BREAK+IN+REICH+FORECAST&pqatl=google
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Clem » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:14 pm)

Kingfisher:

You are misrepresenting what Kues said.


Thomas Kues:

8 ) Sturdy Colls’s statement that “the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence [of mass graves] led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here” implies that the presence of mass graves itself would be enough to refute the “deniers”. However, it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed at Treblinka, even if it was in fact only a transit camp. Holocaust historian Dieter Pohl estimates that up to 5 % of the deportees to the Reinhardt camps perished en route due to suffocation, dehydration, crushing caused by panicking deportees etc.[19] Considering that the reception of transports at Treblinka during the intense initial months of operation is claimed to have been grossly mismanaged by the first camp commandant, Dr. Irmfried Eberl (who, apparently because of this reason, was fired and replaced by Franz Stangl), leading to the delay of transports at way stations [20] – and this in the summer heat of July and August – there is little reason to doubt this estimate with regard to Treblinka. Since some 800,000 Jews in total were deported to Treblinka during the camp’s period of operation (July 1942 – August 1943), this would mean a total of some 40,000 en route deaths. Moreover, there are reasons to assume that a smaller percentage of the deportees were subjected to “euthanasia” due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport. To this should be added a smaller number of deaths among the camp inmates caused by epidemics etc, as well as those killed by guards in connection with attempts at escape or uprisings.
Last edited by Clem on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Clem » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:18 pm)

Mr. Kues answers to these questions should be very interesting.

http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537

* Deconstructing thomas kues’ alleged - “holocaust by train” at Treblinka - story *

For each one of the 10 alleged "huge pits" that are claimed by thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues to exist at Treblinka, please answer the following simple questions:

Note #1: A brief description of each of the 10 alleged “huge pits” can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6804&start=60#p49361

Note #2: Provide ONLY the information that each question asks for - NOTHING more - NOTHING less.


A - Is it known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” actually / currently exists - Yes. - or - No. - ??

B - Has anyone ever claimed to have conducted a real / full excavation of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

C - Has anyone ever claimed to have conducted a geophysical investigation of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

D - Can you provide a photograph of the actual alleged "huge pit" itself that substantiates the claimed dimensions of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

E - Has anyone ever claimed to have physically / tangibly located so-much-as ONE bullet from within this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

F - It is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” currently contains __?__ bullets?

G - Can you provide a photograph of a bullet that was extracted from the inside of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

H - Has anyone ever claimed to have physically / tangibly located so-much-as ONE tooth from within this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

I - It is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” currently contains __?__ teeth?

J - Can you provide a photograph of a tooth that was extracted from the inside of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

K - Has anyone ever claimed to have physically / tangibly located so-much-as ONE bone fragment from within this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

L - It is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” currently contains __?__ pounds of bone fragments?

M - Can you provide a photograph of a bone fragment that was extracted from the inside of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

N - Has anyone ever claimed to have physically / tangibly located so-much-as ONE whole corpse from within this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

O - It is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” currently contains __?__ whole corpses?

P - Can you provide a photograph of a whole corpse, or even part of a corpse, that was extracted from the inside of this alleged “huge pit” - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Q - Can you prove - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that this alleged “huge pit” currently contains the remains of at least 4 bodies - Yes. - or - No. ??

R - Has your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” been posted on The Skeptics Society’s forum for Michael Shermer’s endorsement - Yes. - or - No. ??

S - Has Michael Shermer endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

T - Can you provide the name of a member of a skeptical organization who has endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

U - Can you provide the name of a professional forensic anthropologist who has endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

V - Can you provide the name of an employee of Archaeology Magazine who has endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

W - Can you provide the name of a member of The American Academy of Forensic Sciences who has endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

X - Can you provide the name of a PHD professor - currently teaching forensic anthropology and / or archaeology classes at a university in the United States - who has endorsed your alleged “proven with 100 % certainty huge pit proof” - Yes. - or - No. ??

Y - Can you provide a copy of a legitimate scientific paper which details the laboratory analysis that forensically proved - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that ANYTHING claimed to have been extracted from within this alleged “huge pit” is of human origin - Yes. - or - No. ??

Z - Of the 10 alleged “huge pits” claimed to exist at this alleged "holocaust within the holocaust" site, which one can you prove - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - currently contains the most human remains? (Note: To answer question Z - simply mark the appropriate space with an asterisk *)


thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answers:


"Huge pit" # 1: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 2: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 3: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 4: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 5: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 6: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 7: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 8: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 9: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

"Huge pit" # 10: - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?


* * * * *

Part 2


A - True. - or - False. ?? - During their extensive August, 1944 “crime” scene investigation of Treblinka II, Soviet Union investigators excavated “a great number of pits” in which they found - “personal commodities and documents” and “pieces of burned and destroyed passports” and “household objects” - “like, for example, violin parts, children’s toys, devices for waving the hair, books and the like” - but they found no graves.

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

B - True. - or - False. ?? - The Soviets did claim that they excavated 305 un-cremated corpses from 3 mass graves and 13 individual graves in the cemetery located between the Treblinka I and Treblinka II camps; however, the holohoaxers have never been able to account for these corpses or refute the theory that these are the un-cremated corpses that ended up in the alleged bomb crater allegedly located “in the northwestern section of the area” - i.e. - an area outside of the alleged burial area of Treblinka II.

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

C - True. - or - False. ?? - In reference to his November 9th & 10th, 1945 exhaustive excavation of Treblinka’s so-called “Lazaret pit” (to an alleged depth of 7 meters), in which “broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered,” Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz made the following admission: “There were no human remains found.”

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

D - True. - or - False. ?? - In reference to his November 11th, 1945 “series of test excavations” (to an alleged depth of 1.5 meters / length of 10-15 meters) in Treblinka’s alleged “extermination camp” area “where the [alleged gas] chambers had to have been located,” Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz made the following admission: “Undisturbed layers of earth were uncovered by this.”

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

E - True. - or - False. ?? - In reference to his November 13th, 1945 “opening of a pit” in the northeastern section of the camp (to an alleged depth of 5 meters) in which “there were no human remains found, Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz made the following admission: “During the course of the digging, broken pieces of all sorts of kitchen containers as well as a large number of rags were continually found. Aside from the coins discovered so far, Greek, Slovakian, and French ones were found, as well as documents in hebrew and Polish and remnants of a Soviet passport.”)

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

F -True. - or - False. ?? - In reference to his November, 1945 thorough forensic investigation of Treblinka, during which time it was admitted that numerous trash pits had been excavated, Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz made the following admission: “During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves.”

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

G - True. - or - False. ?? - If Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz mistakenly thought that east was north at Treblinka - as the holohoaxers spuriously and desperately claim, then that would mean that his infamously alleged “bomb crater” excavation “in the northwestern section of the area,” would have actually taken place in the northeastern section of the camp, which was known as - “the place for burning the rubbish.”

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

(Note: As even the dullest of morons knows and only a charlatan would pretend not to know; only a mentally ill pathological liar would shamelessly deny reality and answer - False. - to question G when a map drawn and published by Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz himself - showing east as north and labeling the northeastern section of Treblinka as: “The place for burning the rubbish” can be verified on this map here: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/Image155.gif

H - True. - or - False. ?? - Forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls’ geophysical investigation of Treblinka did not prove that any of the pits she claims to have located contain anything other than soil and/or trash, or prove in any way that said pits are actually “graves;” and she most certainly did not prove that any of the pits currently contain so-much-as one single bullet, shell casing, tooth, bone fragment or “whole corpse,” - i.e. - no human remains what-so-ever - NONE!

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

I - True. - or - False. ?? - Trying to deceive the public into believing that already discovered and well documented trash pits and admitted exculpatory excavations at Treblinka are instead “huge pits” filled with human remains is a shameless Big-Lie and a blatant Orwellian attempt at revising history by putting all previous forensic investigations down the memory hole (ala Colls, Kues and Shermer) and maliciously trying to create a new fraudulent cognitive illusion.

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

J - True. - or - False. ?? - Despite the fact that he claimed in his deluding book “Denying History” that his reasons for visiting Treblinka and other camps were to - “see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps” and to “take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims” and to “apply the tools of science;” and, after claiming that his investigations were conducted “like criminologists solving a crime” using “the same techniques used by geologists, paleontologists and archaeologists,” and his purpose for writing said book was to “show precisely, with solid evidence, how we know the holocaust happened,” - Michael Shermer has yet to prove that so-much-as one of colls alleged “huge pits” contains so-much-as one of kues alleged 40,000 + corpses - NOT ONE!

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??

K - How many of the over 40,000 corpses alleged to have been buried at Treblinka by thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues were discovered by Soviet “crime” scene investigators?

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ?

L - How many of the over 40,000 corpses alleged to have been buried at Treblinka by thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues were discovered by Polish forensic investigators?

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ?

M - How many of the over 40,000 corpses alleged to have been buried at Treblinka by thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues were discovered by Krege’s geophysical investigation?

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ?

N - How many of the over 40,000 corpses alleged to have been buried at Treblinka by thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues were discovered by Coll’s geophysical investigation?

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ?

O - How many of the over 40,000 corpses alleged to have been buried at Treblinka by thomas “there is little reason to doubt” kues were discovered by Shermer’s application of the tools of science?

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ?

P - True. - or - False. ?? - It is an irrefutable fact that not so-much-as one single holohoaxer or holohoax-light turncoat who espouses the alleged - “holocaust by train” at Treblinka - story has ever found the courage, integrity and character to dare answer the above simple questions - NOT ONE!

thomas "there is little reason to doubt" kues' answer: - ??


http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kurland » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:44 pm)

Clem wrote:Thomas Kues:

8 ) Sturdy Colls’s statement that “the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence [of mass graves] led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here” implies that the presence of mass graves itself would be enough to refute the “deniers”. However, it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed at Treblinka, even if it was in fact only a transit camp. Holocaust historian Dieter Pohl estimates that up to 5 % of the deportees to the Reinhardt camps perished en route due to suffocation, dehydration, crushing caused by panicking deportees etc.[19] Considering that the reception of transports at Treblinka during the intense initial months of operation is claimed to have been grossly mismanaged by the first camp commandant, Dr. Irmfried Eberl (who, apparently because of this reason, was fired and replaced by Franz Stangl), leading to the delay of transports at way stations [20] – and this in the summer heat of July and August – there is little reason to doubt this estimate with regard to Treblinka. Since some 800,000 Jews in total were deported to Treblinka during the camp’s period of operation (July 1942 – August 1943), this would mean a total of some 40,000 en route deaths. Moreover, there are reasons to assume that a smaller percentage of the deportees were subjected to “euthanasia” due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport. To this should be added a smaller number of deaths among the camp inmates caused by epidemics etc, as well as those killed by guards in connection with attempts at escape or uprisings.


My thoughts on the quandary that Kues now finds himself in have been communicated in the past. No need to expand on that here. As a crtical thinking historian I must request support for this statement: "there are reasons to assume that a smaller percentage of the deportees were subjected to "euthanasia" due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport."

What documents exist to support this alleged "euthanasia" policy of transports? If they were going to kill mentally unfit (which I do not see evidence of) it makes no sense to even send them for transport. If they were diseased they wouldnt even transport them either. This just makes no sense. And how were these groups euthanized? No details are presented in this article.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:19 am)

Clem:

You have simply repeated what you said earlier and which I have addressed.

If Kues thinks it probable that a considerable but unspecified number died in transit (an assertion that is supported by Rassinier's personal experience BTW) how is he supporting a thesis of extermination? Perhaps you think Revisionists in general propose a "holocaust by typhus"? Surely that is the analogy?

Reposting the same material is classed as dodging on this forum and is against forum rules. Answer the following point or leave the thread:

He is saying that, based on an orthodox historian's assessment, even if they can demonstrate 40K plus deaths they do not represent a Holocaust but at worst criminal disregard for human life or at best the unintended result of a breakdown in infrastructure, neither of which supports the extermination thesis.

In other words: deaths from unintended causes, or for non-genocidal reasons, do nothing to support a genocide. Ergo, the Revisionist position would not be damaged by the discovery of mass graves of 40K+ persons. For some reason you seem to have got it into your head that Kues is setting out to prove that number of deaths. He isn't. He is merely saying that it is not unlikely but would prove nothing. I don't read too much into the word "must": Kues has no interest in proving these deaths; they are a concession to the opposition which, he argues, does nothing to support their allegation of extermination of all arrivals. In this way he pre-empts any discovery of graves which, while large, could not contain more than a fraction of the numbers alleged.

Kurland:

The same logic applies to euthanasia. It could be an explanation for some deaths. Also (my point not Kues's) it might explain the presence in Treblinka of staff who had been employed in the euthanasia programme.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:28 am)

Kingfisher wrote:Kurland:

The same logic applies to euthanasia. It could be an explanation for some deaths. Also (my point not Kues's) it might explain the presence in Treblinka of staff who had been employed in the euthanasia programme.


I have a problem with "agreeing" with the holocaust historians too readily also. Because some personnel who are at Treblinka were involved in the earlier short-lived Euthanasia program, the holo historians claim this as "evidence" that gassing was carried out at Treblinka. To answer this by saying that no gassing was carried out but maybe some euthanasia was, is totally unnecessary and goes beyond "throwing them a bone" into giving them points they have not earned. I have noticed a willingness to go part-way in order to deny or contradict the worst of the charges.

In my work, I take the opposite approach. I give nothing and make my critics prove it, if they can. In this way, I am open to being proved wrong, which I am not afraid of since I don't see myself as a "big name" in the revisionist firmament. I do think the fear of being mistaken or shown to be "wrong" about anything is the reason that some revisionists who have a reputation to guard (as they see it) are overly "careful" or, from another perspective, give away far too much in advance with regard to how many Jews were killed and how badly they were treated.

Where is the evidence for euthanasia at Treblinka? Everything must be evidence-based ... not what fits the narrative. Because it's their narrative!
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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Clem » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:22 pm)

Kurland:

My thoughts on the quandary that Kues now finds himself in have been communicated in the past. No need to expand on that here. As a crtical thinking historian I must request support for this statement: "there are reasons to assume that a smaller percentage of the deportees were subjected to "euthanasia" due to contageous or mental diseases, or for being too weak for further transport."

What documents exist to support this alleged "euthanasia" policy of transports? If they were going to kill mentally unfit (which I do not see evidence of) it makes no sense to even send them for transport. If they were diseased they wouldnt even transport them either. This just makes no sense. And how were these groups euthanized? No details are presented in this article.



Carolyn Yeager:

To answer this by saying that no gassing was carried out but maybe some euthanasia was, is totally unnecessary and goes beyond "throwing them a bone" into giving them points they have not earned. I have noticed a willingness to go part-way in order to deny or contradict the worst of the charges... Where is the evidence for euthanasia at Treblinka? Everything must be evidence-based ... not what fits the narrative. Because it's their narrative!


Good points Kurland and Carolyn.

This whole "there is little reason to doubt euthanasia at the Reinhardt camps" is utter nonsense.

It's holohoax light and the people who espouse this nonsense should be looked at with a wary eye.
Last edited by Clem on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:30 pm)

Carolyn

This only tentative and exploratory, which is why I used "could" and both italicised and underlined it. I don't have any patch to defend:

The fact that a large proportion of the staff at Treblinka were nurses seems to support the transit camp thesis. But if some of these were in the euthanasia programme, the mainstream can, and do, allege it was so they could use their expertise for extermination. If, on the other hand, there was euthanasia selection at Treblinka, which might make sense as it would be pointless, from their angle, to have the terminally or seriously sick continue on an arduous voyage which would probably kill them, while they (the Germans) would be shielded from the pressures of public opinion and the Catholic Church which had forced the programme to be discontinued in Germany.

I did not suggest there was such a programme: only that if Thomas Kues's hypothesis is correct and there was, this would offer a valid alternative explanation to the presence of these people.

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kurland » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:16 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:Kurland:

The same logic applies to euthanasia. It could be an explanation for some deaths. Also (my point not Kues's) it might explain the presence in Treblinka of staff who had been employed in the euthanasia programme.


"Could be"? In the sense that alien abductions and Nazi gassings "could" happen? :alien:

Let us please skip the infinite theories and stick to realities please. You suggest "euthanasia" took place at the Treblinka camp, you think, maybe, perhaps, who knows, you say. What evidence do you have for this? Where are the orders? Where are the deliveries of material for the implementation of these killings? What "euthanasia" nurses served at Treblinka? Where in the camp did these killings take place? How did they take place? Most importantly where are the bodies and where are the graves of these tens of thousands of people?

http://www.air-photo.com/english/may1944.html

Do you see them? I am willing to be instructed but I dont entertain pet theories lightly.

Carolyn is absolutely right. No bones should be handed away to the industry. This should be strictly adhered to by those who view themselves as leading "revisionists".

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Re: Thomas Kues Holocaust by Train

Postby Kladderadatsch » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:39 pm)

True. - or - False. ?? - It is an irrefutable fact that not so-much-as one single holohoaxer or holohoax-light turncoat who espouses the alleged - “holocaust by train” at Treblinka - story has ever found the courage, integrity and character to dare answer the questions found on this thread: http://revisionistworkshop.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=4537


The questions were posted three days ago, lol.

:lol:
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