Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

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Eric Hunt
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Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Eric Hunt » 5 years 10 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:18 am)

http://www.holocaustdenier.com/birkenau-morgue-decontamination-room-gas-chamber-holocaust-lie-hoax/

Revisionists such as Arthur Butz and Samuel Crowell claim that the two large rectangular rooms of the Birkenau Kremas were not :

1) An “undressing room” where Jews took off their clothes for the last time, before going into

2) The homicidal gas chamber room, where fake shower heads were installed to trick Jews right before Nazis dropped the cyanide insecticide Zyklon B through openings on the roof.

But were actually similar to existing British WW2 gas decontamination / air raid shelters. Real, working showers were likely installed here as well - not the "fake" shower heads claimed by Holocaust promoters. They were -

1) An undressing room used for removal of decontaminated clothing in case of poison gas attack.
2) An air tight gas shelter, where people went for protection from poison gas after decontamination.

A British WW 2 Gas Cleansing Center -

2573535_4a21132a.jpg


RAF Charterhall – Gas Cleansing Centre – North Wall Signage

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2573535

I have read both sides of the dispute between Carlo Mattogno and Samuel Crowell. I believe Crowell wins, and more and more evidence will come out to prove Crowell and the air raid / gas decontamination thesis correct.

One of the points Mattogno tries to make, sounding more like a Holocaust believer than someone with an alternate revisionist theory from Crowell, (because as Crowell points out, Mattogno’s alternate theory would have the same problem) is that a morgue couldn’t possibly be used as an air raid gas decontamination shelter. Imagine the living people and corpses in the same room!

Mattogno -

From a practical standpoint, since Leichenkeller 1 and 2 were still two distinct morgue chambers containing corpses (p. 239) of which there were many as is known, the Crowell hypothesis would mean that sudden air raids inevitably resulted in live persons finding themselves together with corpses. It would not have been an inviting prospect to be enclosed for hours inside a gas-tight chamber with miasmic or infected corpses!


Here’s Crowell’s response -

ARGUMENT #11 Mattogno argues that the presence of corpses would make the use of these spaces as air raid shelters impossible.
COMMENT: If the presence of corpses would make the use of these spaces unsatisfactory for air raid shelters, the presence of corpses would make the use of these spaces equally unsatisfactory for sanitizing incoming inmates as Mattogno will ultimately argue. However, Mattogno ignores survivor evidence that indicates that prisoners were indeed taken to basements during air raids and moreover, according to Nyiszli, directly to the morgue in question. Indeed, Nyiszli specifies that the crematorium II Sonderkommando, 200 strong, took refuge in the “gas chamber” during air raids.


I believe Crowell is right, and here’s some modern evidence which supports the gas decontamination / gas shelter theory -

The American OSHA ( The Occupational Safety & Health Administration) wrote the following in their 1997 publication Hospitals and Community Emergency Response – What You Need to Know -
http://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3152/osha3152.html

Although areas dedicated solely to decontamination need not be set aside, hospitals need to take appropriate precautions to prevent the spread of contamination to other areas within the hospital. Decontamination should be performed in areas of the facility that will minimize any exposures to uncontaminated employees, other patients, or equipment. Morgues are often used as decontamination rooms because of the preexisting drainage and ventilation system. Morgues often have ventilation isolation to prevent mixing of airflow with other area systems.


Morgues were and still are perfectly suited to double as gas decontamination (undressing) rooms.

Mattogno assumed that common sense dictates that it would be absurd for morgues to double as gas decontamination / gas shelters for living people, but he was wrong, and Crowell is right. Even Hospitals, places we think to be one of the most sterile places around, "often" use their morgues as decontamination rooms in the case of a gas attack.

Morgues were used for this purpose during World War II, in Auschwitz / Birkenau, and "OFTEN" in modern morgues even today!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A gas decontamination / gas shelter in Britain with gas tight doors, labelled undressing room -

holocaust-undressing-room-hoax.jpg

gas-chamber-holocaust-jew-nazi.jpg


http://www.holocaustdenier.com/undressi ... aust-hoax/


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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:27 pm)

Another coffin nail in the 'holocaust gas chambers' storyline.This is huge. It utterly demolishes (again) the claims by those of the 'holocaust' Industry who claim that the morgues, that are laughably said to have been converted into homicidal 'gas chambers at Auschwitz/Birkenau, could not / would not have been used as air raid shelters. In fact it is logical that they would have been used as such. And the 'gas tight doors' & 'peepholes' fraudulently claimed to be proof of 'gas chambers' gets hammered again, and hard.

This also sets straight the otherwise excellent Revisionist, C. Mattogno, who said that people would have found being near cleaned and covered corpses uncomfortable. No doubt it would, but the option would have been death. During such an attack, 'Run for your life!' would have meant just that.

Eric has presented authentic documents and actual photos that are irrefutable proof that morgues were & could be used as such today as air raid shelters, for fear of poison gas usage, as in WWI by both sides, or fear of high explosive bombs. Read his information thoroughly.

One cannot help but refer to the work of Samuel Crowell, a must read here.
Technique and Operation of German Anti-Gas Shelters in World War II: A Refutation of J. C. Pressac's "Criminal Traces"
http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconpressac.html

and you must see this:
U.S. 'Holocaust' Museum busted in gas chamber fraud
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2205&p=14741

from that thread:
Image
Busted again!

also recommended:
Gas-tight doors and the German Air Raid Shelter Technology
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5488&p=36224

from that thread:
ImageImage
more here:
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DT/gcturen.html

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby SKcz » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:51 am)

Maybe it would be good to read more about this topic and not only the two articles mentioned in Eric´s link on his website.

Hers is Mattogno´s refutation of Crowell hypothesis.
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/CM/Crowell-final-eng.html

Here is Mattogno´s response to Crowell´s response mentioned in Eric´s link.
http://vho.org/GB/c/CM/reply.html

My opinion is that Mattogno is right. These installations were not conctructed or planned as shelters, they could have been used in the case of need for this purpose, Mattogno admited this too:

"Here I need to clarify an essential point. Crowell attributes to me the "conclusion that the crematoria could never have functioned as air raid shelters" which is true if referred to standard shelters, but is false if referred to improvised refuges. That the "Leichenkeller" of the crematoria could have been used as improvised "Luftschutzbunker" is obvious, and that would have also been possible for a brief time without mechanical ventilation, but that does not have anything to do with the planning of "Luftschutzbunker" in the "Leichenkeller", because only this matter could give Samuel Crowell the illusion of being able to explain Pressac's "criminal indications."

REPLY TO SAMUEL CROWELL'S "COMMENTS" ABOUT MY "CRITIQUE OF THE BOMB SHELTER THESIS" Carlo Mattogno
http://vho.org/GB/c/CM/reply.html


but they were not planned or constructed for this purpose as Mattogno´s wrote in his articles.

Basement in my house could be used in the case of need as a shelter, yes, but this can´t change that our basement was never constructed as a shelter and this is reason why our basement don´t even look as shleter or don´t have equipment for shleters or is not mentioned in plans or documents as a shelter.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:50 pm)

It would be helpful if Mattogno and Crowell could sit down and talk this one through. They cannot both be be right, and their conflict is an embarrassment to Revisionism. Unfortunately both seem to have invested too much in their entrenched positions and are interested only in evidence that confirms their bias. While this is understandable from a psychological point of view, it is not a very scientific attitude.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:53 pm)

SKcz:

What I find puzzling in Mattogno's view is: What would be the point of gas-proof doors on morgues? Does he think that they may have been intended for occasional emergency use, as Eric Hunt suggests?

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby SKcz » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:36 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:SKcz:

What I find puzzling in Mattogno's view is: What would be the point of gas-proof doors on morgues? Does he think that they may have been intended for occasional emergency use, as Eric Hunt suggests?


See Mattogno´s quote:

"In the context of the “Vergasungskeller” as an emergency disinfestation chamber, discussed in the preceding chapter, the presence of a gastight door in Leichenkeller 1 was a perfectly normal matter."

Auschwitz: The Case for Sanity, Carlo Mattogno, p. 70

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 pm)

Of course these morgues at Auschwitz / Birkenau were not planned and built as air raid, anti-gas attack shelters. They were morgues that could double as anti gas shelters if necessary, simple as that. Both kremas II & III were mostly underground, which assisted in keeping the disease victims bodies cool. Obviously they presented a convenient way to provide gas attack shelter, and even standard bomb protection. I see no big deal about this.

All one has to do is read what Eric posted and provided proof for, ex.:
Even Hospitals, places we think to be one of the most sterile places around, "often" use their morgues as decontamination rooms in the case of a gas attack.


Kingfisher said:
1. It would be helpful if Mattogno and Crowell could sit down and talk this one through. They cannot both be be right, and their conflict is an embarrassment to Revisionism. Unfortunately both seem to have invested too much in their entrenched positions and are interested only in evidence that confirms their bias. While this is understandable from a psychological point of view, it is not a very scientific attitude.

2. What I find puzzling in Mattogno's view is: What would be the point of gas-proof doors on morgues? Does he think that they may have been intended for occasional emergency use, as Eric Hunt suggests?


1. You are easily embarrassed, Kingfisher. I see nothing embarrassing at all, healthy debate is often how answers are found. Both Mattogno & Crowell certainly agree that the morgues were not homicidal gas chambers.

2, Yes, that is the logical answer.

And Crowell clearly stated in refuting Pressac's false claim of 'homicidal gas chambers':
http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconpressac.html
The design characteristics, layout, and equipment of the 'extermination' gas chambers Pressac describes match those of morgues altered to double as bomb shelters with anti-gas warfare features.

Therefore, in a material and documentary context, we must conclude that the 'extermination' gas chambers in the four Birkenau crematoria were designed and constructed as morgues with modifications for them to serve as anti-gas shelters, that is, they were not designed to keep gas in, but to keep gas out.

How these German bomb shelters or anti-gas shelters were actually used, in addition to their primary use as morgues, ...

My emphasis.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:01 am)

Hannover wrote:Kingfisher said:
1. It would be helpful if Mattogno and Crowell could sit down and talk this one through. They cannot both be be right, and their conflict is an embarrassment to Revisionism. Unfortunately both seem to have invested too much in their entrenched positions and are interested only in evidence that confirms their bias. While this is understandable from a psychological point of view, it is not a very scientific attitude.


1. You are easily embarrassed, Kingfisher. I see nothing embarrassing at all, healthy debate is often how answers are found. Both Mattogno & Crowell certainly agree that the morgues were not homicidal gas chambers.
My emphasis

Absolutely. Which is why I wrote " It would be helpful if Mattogno and Crowell could sit down and talk this one through." and "Unfortunately both seem to have invested too much in their entrenched positions and are interested only in evidence that confirms their bias."

I have considerable respect for both of them.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:11 am)

Hannover wrote:And Crowell clearly stated in refuting Pressac's false claim of 'homicidal gas chambers':
http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconpressac.html
The design characteristics, layout, and equipment of the 'extermination' gas chambers Pressac describes match those of morgues altered to double as bomb shelters with anti-gas warfare features.

Therefore, in a material and documentary context, we must conclude that the 'extermination' gas chambers in the four Birkenau crematoria were designed and constructed as morgues with modifications for them to serve as anti-gas shelters, that is, they were not designed to keep gas in, but to keep gas out.

How these German bomb shelters or anti-gas shelters were actually used, in addition to their primary use as morgues, ...

My emphasis.
- Hannover

Yes, that seems pretty clear. So now I'm puzzled as to what Mattogno disagrees so strongly about.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby SKcz » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:56 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Hannover wrote:And Crowell clearly stated in refuting Pressac's false claim of 'homicidal gas chambers':
http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconpressac.html
The design characteristics, layout, and equipment of the 'extermination' gas chambers Pressac describes match those of morgues altered to double as bomb shelters with anti-gas warfare features.

Therefore, in a material and documentary context, we must conclude that the 'extermination' gas chambers in the four Birkenau crematoria were designed and constructed as morgues with modifications for them to serve as anti-gas shelters, that is, they were not designed to keep gas in, but to keep gas out.

How these German bomb shelters or anti-gas shelters were actually used, in addition to their primary use as morgues, ...

My emphasis.
- Hannover

Yes, that seems pretty clear. So now I'm puzzled as to what Mattogno disagrees so strongly about.


From what I know, Mattogno disagree about planned character of shelter thesis, which of course means that Crowell cannot explain Pressac´s "criminal traces" because if this was not planned, these "gas-tight" doors "vergasungskeller" and etc. could not have to do anything with shelters. Mattogno also argue that Crowell has no documental basis for planning or constructing shelters in crematoria.

So no surprise that their debate is a little bit sharp since this means that Crowell is unable to expplain Pressac´s traces.

Of course, according to me Pressac is off with his "criminal traces" from the beginning, since my logic is "if crematoria were not planned with criminal purpose as they claims, how is possible to find criminal traces"? "And if the crematoria were planned with criminal purpose, do you want me to believe that Germans were the most dumbest peoples in the world with their ridiculous "factory of death"?

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:55 am)

SKcz

I don't understand all the detail of this and don't really want to go into it, but does Mattogno accept there were gas-tight doors or not? Hannover seems to think he does.
Hannover wrote:
Kingfisher wrote: 2. What I find puzzling in Mattogno's view is: What would be the point of gas-proof doors on morgues? Does he think that they may have been intended for occasional emergency use, as Eric Hunt suggests?

2, Yes, that is the logical answer.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby SKcz » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:11 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:SKcz

I don't understand all the detail of this and don't really want to go into it, but does Mattogno accept there were gas-tight doors or not? Hannover seems to think he does.


Yes, see Mattogno and Pressac

"The gastight doors for Leichenkeller 1 of crematoria II and III are described in the letter written by Bischoff to the DAW office on March 31, 1943. It refers to an order dated March 6 concerning a “gas door 100/192 for Leichenkeller 1 of crematorium III, BW 30a,” which was to be fashioned “exactly like the cellar door of crematorium II opposite in type and size, with peep-hole of double 8 mm glass, rubber seal and fixtures” (1989, p. 436). This description does not, in fact, mention the protective grid."

Auschwitz: The Case for Sanity, Carlo Mattogno, p. 70
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0436.shtml


But according to all information and to my knowledge, these doors were wooden as you can see them in delousing block, so not metal as you can see in shelters.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:58 pm)

Kingfisher, SKcz, I do think we're seeing a little cat fighting between Mattogno & Crowell, but in the scheme of things it's small beer.

My emphasis in this thread is to support Eric's position, which I feel is rock solid. And if Revisionists like M & C haggle over details, fine. Revisionists are not some monolithic, agree-on-every-last-detail block, or perhaps bloc is a better term.

IMO, there is no doubt that the morgues of Auschwitz-Birkenau were doubling as provisional gas attack & general air raid shelters. Eric has really rocked the 'holocaust' boat on this and confirmed what Crowell claimed in general.

Mattogno also argue that Crowell has no documental basis for planning or constructing shelters in crematoria.

There is now, as Eric has shown. The dual use phenomenon seems to have been and is quite common, why would the Germans be any different? And take a look at the gas-tight air raid shelter doors with peepholes I posted, straight out of WWII era German literature.

From what I understand, Mattogno is hung about the 'planning' part. No, the morgues were not 'planned' as gas attack, air raid shelters, but as shown, they certainly were adapted on a just-in-case basis. Remember Monowitz, part of Auschwitz/Birkenau was in fact bombed, repeatedly. Also in fact, at Auschwitz-Birkenau there were quickly improvised simple ditches which could also act as a measure of protection in an 'Air-raid! Run for shelter! scenario. No doubt about it, Auschwitz-Birkenau was subject to air attack, and recalling WWI, there was a fear of a gas attack. Once the Allies got within bombing range and realized that A/B was being used for German war materials needs, the bombers flew & bombed. They are aerial even photos of A/B with 'Allied' bombs in the pictures.

Image

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby SKcz » 5 years 10 months ago (Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:01 am)

Hannover wrote:IMO, there is no doubt that the morgues of Auschwitz-Birkenau were doubling as provisional gas attack & general air raid shelters. Eric has really rocked the 'holocaust' boat on this and confirmed what Crowell claimed in general.


In fact, they were "triple" functioning as morgues, emergency delousing chamber and air raid shelter, maybe someone will point out another using. I don´t think that confirmed Crowell or rocket boat. Only confirmed that morgue can be used as shelter, but was not constructed as shelter, but Mattogno did not denied this according to my knowledge.

Hannover wrote:From what I understand, Mattogno is hung about the 'planning' part. No, the morgues were not 'planned' as gas attack, air raid shelters, but as shown, they certainly were adapted on a just-in-case basis.


And that is the problem for Crowell, if they were not planned, how is able to explain Pressac´s traces?

Here is again Mattogno´s quote from my comments above.

"...but that does not have anything to do with the planning of "Luftschutzbunker" in the "Leichenkeller", because only this matter could give Samuel Crowell the illusion of being able to explain Pressac's "criminal indications."


I personally don´t care so much about what was these rooms, important is what these rooms wren´t, gas chambers.

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Re: Morgues Still Used TODAY for Gas Decontamination

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:29 pm)

SKcz:
I personally don´t care so much about what was these rooms, important is what these rooms wren´t, gas chambers.

I agree. But those of the increasingly desperate 'Holocaust' Industry Party members try to say that these morgues could not / would not have been utilized as air raid / gas shelters. Any way you logically look at it, that assertion is wrong. Eric Hunt has demonstrated that dual use was and is common. It's beyond reproach due to Hunt's efforts.

And that is the problem for Crowell, if they were not planned, how is able to explain Pressac´s traces?

Given the quotes from Crowell that I cited, I see no problem.
In fact, due to Eric Hunt, Mattogno & Crowell's little one on one concerning this particular issue is somewhat irrelevant, a side show.
And then the Pressac "criminal traces" themselves are so absurd as to be laughable. How in the world does the supposedly 'most documented event in world history' have to rely on "traces"? Plus, one has to read the backtracking by Pressac in the book that followed. Pressac has proven so bad for the The Holocaust Industry Party members that many believe he has done a snow job on them. The more The Holocaust Industry Party tries to buttress their unsupportable claims the worst it becomes for them. The recent Treblinka fiasco proves that as well.
The entire gas chambers claim has become so untenable that we are seeing more & more movement away from them to the 'holocaust by bullets' sham, which is as easily debunked.

The times, they are a changin'.

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