Jewish "victims" and fat

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Jewish "victims" and fat

Postby Haldan » 8 years 6 months ago (Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:52 pm)

Roberto Muehlenkamp says often on the Internet that the Germans used to mass-murder Jews and that these same people almost burnt on their own without the additional adding of fuel, I therefore ask myself if this Michael Honey is wrong?

Michael Honey, Czech (this is a Jew and supposed member of Sonderkommando.
“Chief of Sonderkommando told me: “We have to empty gas chambers, the bodies will be transferred to the carriages, like these used on construction sites. We have to bear them, because they are not flat, they are dump. So first we have to load bodies on carriages, then transport them to Crematorium, where they’re burned. (…) He said that the hardest thing is to deal with the bodies of people who died of natural causes, because they are so starved, and have no fat at all. Their burning require more fuel, so Germans often leave the bones in the furnace to burn them with the next part of bodies.”
(Source: “Świadkowie – zapomniane głosy. Holocaust” (“Forgotten voices of the Holocaust”) by Lyn Smith, printed Publishing House RM, 2011.=

Any insight into this?

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Re: Jewish "victims" and fat

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:35 am)

Thank you for that.

It's not like we need any evidence to know that the inmates were mostly starved, and this is why I cannot understand how they can even claim these people burned on their own fat, when they themselves know at what physical state the mass majority of inmates were. It's an argument out of nothing, made only to support their claims of low fuel waste, but it simply does not hold and it is in fact contradictory to the claim that they were emaciated. You cannot have it both ways.

The ones with a normal weight would, according to them, be forced to work and thus not be gassed, so including these to claim people with average weight contain some fat is pointless. When they couldn't work any more, it would be because they got too weak and lost a lot of weight. So after the average weight Jews couldn't work any more, and were supposedly sent to the gas chambers and cremated, they wouldn't have a lot of fat themselves any more.

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Re: Jewish "victims" and fat

Postby six gun » 8 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:42 pm)

I think the idea that inmates were skeletal is very much influence by the photos from Belsen.
They had died of starvation or typhus.
For the Operation Reinhart camps such as Treblinka people came straight off the trains and into the gas chambers.
Were these people skeletal?

I don't think you can necessarily say they were all like this.
However the idea they were like some sort of paraffin fire lighter is just not right.

There I found a link to another site regarding burning corpses in the open.$EAFull?ID=67

This talks about the disposal of animal carcasses after slaughter.
This is the equivalent of the fresh kills in a gas chamber situation.

It says "After slaughter, animal carcasses may be completely destroyed to ash, at sites suitable for burning.".

Towards the end of the page cattle is the animal in question.

"Ash. Approximately 350 kg is produced per tonne of animal."

To destroy 250 carcasses the following are required:

-- 250 railway sleepers
-- 250 bales of straw
-- 6,250 kg of kindling wood
-- 50,750 kg of coal
-- 1 gallon of diesel oil per metre length of pyre

Pyres burn continuously for 2 to 3 days.

Now these are EU regulations, so there is likely to be some overkill.

A mature Holstein cow typically weighs 580 kg.

250 x 580 kg = 145 000 kg of flesh.


Railway sleepers will be dry and soaked in a preservative.
A traditional UK railway sleeper is of oak but they can be pine.
They weigh around 50kg.

250 x 50 = 12 500kg

Coal 50 750kg
Wood 6 250 kg
Sleepers 12 500kg

Total = 69 500kg

Let's ignore the bales of straw and diesel.

145 000kg of flesh according to the EU needs 69 500kg of pyre.

the ratio is 1: 0.48
Flesh: Pyre weight.

These numbers are the real thing.
"Over 950 pyres were built in England and Wales during the FMD [foot and mouth disease] outbreak to control the spread of the disease."

This is a long way from bodies burning of their own accord.

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Re: Jewish "victims" and fat

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 6 months ago (Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:36 am)

You have to also note that cows have a lot more fat which aids the burning process.

And the burning took 2-3 days, whereas for Treblinka only 5 hours are claimed. This is because, according to them, almost nobody got fully cremated, only carbonized, and then sent to a mill where the remains were ground into powder to be used as fertilizer. Supposedly there is a receipt of such a mill from Auschwitz arriving to Chelmno, but I have not seen it.

Walter Dejaco, Report on the Mission to Lodz:
“Purpose of Journey: Inspection of a special installation
Departure from Auschwitz was on 16 Sept. 1942 at 5 a.m. by car
of the headquarters of Auschwitz concentration camp.
Participants: SS-Obersturmbannführer Höss, SS-Untersturmführer Hössler and SS-Untersturmführer Dejaco.
Arrival at Lodz at 9 am. A visit to the ghetto took place, followed
by a trip to the special installation. Inspection of the special installation and discussion with SS-Standartenführer Blobel about the design of such an installation. The construction material ordered by
special directive Staf. Blobel from the company Ostdeutsche Baustoffwerke, Posen [Poznan], Wilhelm Gustloffstr., are to be delivered
immediately to Auschwitz concentration camp. The order results
from the attached letter of the W.V.H.,
and the request and allocation of the ordered materials is to be effected immediately by the local Central Construction Office in agreement with Ostuf. Weber of
Office C V/3. The required number of waybills is to be sent to the
above company.
With reference to the discussion of SS-Staf. Blobel with the company Schriever & Co., Hannover, Bürgermeister Finkstr., the reserved ball mill for substances which has already been reserved is to
be delivered to the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Return on 17 Sept. [19]42, arrival at Auschwitz at 12 o’clock.
SS-Ustuf. (F)
1 carbon copy
1 sketch.”

Biebow’s letter of 1 March 1943:
“To the
Secret State Police
c/o Mr. commissar Fuchs
027/1/Bi/Si 1 March 1943
Re.: Purchase for the special command Kulmhof
Attached I send back to you the documents about the purchase
from the company Schriever & Co., Hannover. The matter has been
regulated in the meantime, but for certain reasons I do not want to
keep this file in my administration, and ask it to be taken into storage there.
On behalf of:
Attachment: 1 file
(Biebow) head of department.”

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