question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

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borjastick
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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby borjastick » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:13 am)

Whether we find the individuals in the holocaust myth interesting or not is sometimes not as important as we might think. Many people in the general public, those whom we seek to inform about the holocaust myth, have never heard of Elie Wiesel or John Demjanuk. They only know of Hitler, six million and gas chambers etc. It is these big lies we need to change and not whether Wiesel was real or not, there in auschwitz or not. Though I do agree with both sides in this thread, and I find the Wiesel story completely fascinating and absorbing.

When discussing this issue with anyone who HAS heard of him I think there are just a few simple points to make. Why did he not mention gas chambers in his book? Why when he constantly goes on about his tattoo, has it mysteriously disappeared and why does he talk in such riddles, avoiding any straight answers???
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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:59 am)

borjastick wrote:Whether we find the individuals in the holocaust myth interesting or not is sometimes not as important as we might think. Many people in the general public, those whom we seek to inform about the holocaust myth, have never heard of Elie Wiesel or John Demjanuk. They only know of Hitler, six million and gas chambers etc. It is these big lies we need to change and not whether Wiesel was real or not, there in auschwitz or not. Though I do agree with both sides in this thread, and I find the Wiesel story completely fascinating and absorbing.

I have some sympathy with Borjastick's point, here. I'm not sure whether I had, myself, ever heard of Wiesel before reading what Finkelstein had to say about the misuse of the Holocaust (I did not disbelieve the story at that time). However, it may be different for the younger generations, with Night being pushed down their throats in "Holocaust education" propaganda lessons.

On the other hand, if he is a key figure in the promotion of the story, showing him to be a fraud ought to make a big dent in it. Certainly, in this case, having one person devote herself full time to the investigation should be very valuable and I fully respect the effort and energy Carolyn Yeager puts into this project. The main issue that arises, though, is that she could demonstrate Wiesel's fraudulent status with all the certainty that we now reject the geocentric universe and nobody out there would ever know. The tattoo is the obvious case in point. He has declared he has one; this has been challenged by Revisionists but he won't show it and the idea of asking him to is treated as sacrilege. Simon Wiesenthal's credibility has been put in question even by mainstream figures, but this doesn't get through to the world as a whole and it would be much the same with Elie Wiesel. A further issue is that the main critics of Wiesel do not agree among themselves. Carolyn Yeager and Eric Hunt have exchanged quite heated words on these boards.

borjastick wrote:When discussing this issue with anyone who HAS heard of him I think there are just a few simple points to make. Why did he not mention gas chambers in his book? Why when he constantly goes on about his tattoo, has it mysteriously disappeared and why does he talk in such riddles, avoiding any straight answers???

I do agree, but I'm pessimistic about getting anywhere as Wiesel has been granted a status close to that of Messiah.

Many scholars labour in anonymity without their results shaking the world. If Carolyn Yeager is destined to be one of these her work will still be valuable. Like Borjastick, I follow with fascination.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:14 am)

Kingfisher wrote:On the other hand, if he is a key figure in the promotion of the story, showing him to be a fraud ought to make a big dent in it. Certainly, in this case, having one person devote herself full time to the investigation should be very valuable and I fully respect the effort and energy Carolyn Yeager puts into this project. The main issue that arises, though, is that she could demonstrate Wiesel's fraudulent status with all the certainty that we now reject the geocentric universe and nobody out there would ever know. The tattoo is the obvious case in point. He has declared he has one; this has been challenged by Revisionists but he won't show it and the idea of asking him to is treated as sacrilege. Simon Wiesenthal's credibility has been put in question even by mainstream figures, but this doesn't get through to the world as a whole and it would be much the same with Elie Wiesel. A further issue is that the main critics of Wiesel do not agree among themselves. Carolyn Yeager and Eric Hunt have exchanged quite heated words on these boards.


Do you understand that what you're saying (and also Borjastick) that very few people care about or follow revelations about Elie Wiesel can be said equally about the holohoax as a whole? So if one part is pointless, why aren't all efforts so? And if no one knows about the work I'm doing, it's because you people aren't doing your job in making it more widely known :P ... instead you're questioning its value to begin with, without knowing enough to be qualified to do so.

Further, Eric Hunt is not a "main critic of Wiesel." He has little to say about him and is not an expert on EW. He only read the book Night and took off from there. Those that come to my mind who have researched and written about Wiesel are Robert Faurisson and Carlo Mattogno, and also Prof. David O'Connell (who unfortunately stopped right on the threshold of his Wiesel biography being published), and some who are in the liberal community like Alex Cockburn. These men have made valuable contributions, and would not express disapproval with what I am doing, as Eric Hunt has. In fact, I have received messages of encouragement.

Elie Wiesel has been a topic of intense interest to revisionists all along. He is the most important single figure of the hoax. To say most people don't know or care about him is just wrong. There is simply a media cover-up in that, as you say, asking him to explain anything is treated as sacrilege. He is the one who has nurtured this attitude toward all " H. survivors" -- that they are a special martyr class beyond criticism. He is in fact a key, key player in the Holohoax, not a peripheral figure of little importance.

Borjastick says:
I do agree with both sides in this thread,
How can that be? In that case, you are "on the fence."
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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:37 am)

Except for a small handfull of approved "experts" (approved and "qualified" by Carolyn, of course) such as Robert Faurisson, Carlo Mattogno, David O'Connell, and Alex Cockburn--all the rest of us ordinary humans should never, ever, criticize anything Carolyn has to say on the subject of Elie Wiesel--not even in a wide open discussion forum such as CODOH. Do I have Carolyn's position right on this, folks?

Although I admit to NOT being an expert on Elie Wiesel generally--I do know how to read. Some of the things I have read, over and over again in NIGHT, are absolutely stunning--and so I have presumed to pass some of my thoughts on to whomever might read them. I know I have sinned terribly in doing this--but perhaps, I will be forgiven.

Although Elie certainly could have been "liberated" by Soviet forces in January of 1945 as were several thousand other Auschwitz inmates, Elie and his father both "chose," according to Elie''s own words in his most famous book, to remain under German control and custody instead. They even made a long. extremely arduous winter trek to do so. If they had simply sat on their butts in Auschwitz, they would have been "liberated" by America's greatest ally.

In Auschwitz, the inmates were living on a kind of death row; sooner or later, they were all to be killed--according to the holocaust mythology. Would the death row prisoners in Huntsville, Texas or on any other death row waiting for execution NOT "choose" to run from their guards if they had the opportunity? Of course, not!

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The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby twila » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2012 5:15 pm)

Kingfisher

A further issue is that the main critics of Wiesel do not agree among themselves. Carolyn Yeager and Eric Hunt have exchanged quite heated words on these boards.


Would you expound on that please?

What are the main points of disagreement?

Shouldn't Carolyn be considered a much more authorative source than Eric?

And aren't the "heated words" exchanged mostly a result of Eric's ad hominem's hurled at Carolyn?

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Moderator » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2012 9:07 pm)

twila wrote:Kingfisher

A further issue is that the main critics of Wiesel do not agree among themselves. Carolyn Yeager and Eric Hunt have exchanged quite heated words on these boards.


Would you expound on that please?

What are the main points of disagreement?

Shouldn't Carolyn be considered a much more authorative source than Eric?

And aren't the "heated words" exchanged mostly a result of Eric's ad hominem's hurled at Carolyn?

Kingfisher:
The fact that some Revisionists do not agree, on what IMO is somewhat small beer, is healthy for Revisionism.
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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby borjastick » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 2:53 am)

I have great admiration for Carolyn, her work and her tenacity are the stuff of revisionist legend. Some people though do plough their furrow too deep in their search for proof. The details they focus on are perhaps not too important. Carolyn always sticks to the main big issues. For me though Wiesel is perhaps one of the biggest liabilities of both sides. If he was at Auschwitz then the tattoo thing is one hell of an issue. But if he wasn't at Auschwitz, and there is enough doubt on this, then the claims about tattoos etc fall apart perhaps. And as such consequently so would the book Night. He would then become a Wilkomirski type.I think speaking as a non expert on Wiesel, I am yet to be convinced either way on this man. What I do know is that i wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby twila » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 10:50 am)

That's all fine and good borjastick, but it doesn't answer my question:

What are the main points of disagreement "that the main critics of Wiesel do not agree among themselves"?

I assume that "the main critics of Wiesel" are Carolyn Yeager and Eric Hunt.

So, again - What are their main points of disagreement?

Anyone?

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby truth » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 10:57 am)

I never read this persons book. There is a video with Oprah online which makes gives further status to this person. I wonder, isn't such a person a waste of time?

http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-arch ... blood.html

The blood geyser story seems to be a particularly unnatural phenomenon which Eichman apparently witnessed. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, something which is never given to merely even only questioning Germans.

The World is filled with miracles in the midst of all this suffering, right? It must be all Gods Grace. Everything goes according to plan. The name Wiesel sounds like Weasel... perhaps it is the same pronunciation (coincidence?) when spoken, even when written differently, not that I would want to insult him at all but sound of names maybe having a magical effect on the psyche. See, somebody named "Kingly" :wink: may have a different sense of self than somebody named "Weasel." :?:

The urban dictionary says more here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weasel

Quote, "One who is particularly cunning, conniving, shifty, sneaky, scheming and down right sly. Weasels are known for their ability to adapt to any situation and to manipulate it to suit their own weasel ways." :book:

This quote is not meant to point to the well meaning witness's sad past and merely reminds how how sounds of words can point to different meanings, depending on context.
:dink: :sign6:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzJ3fcG9IkY[/youtube]


I sure do wonder, Is he, little Mr. Wiesel, giving some if not most the money he earns from this, whatever it is, to some good causes outside of his interest group? That would be nice move if the money he earned from the Holocaust would at least be used for the good and benefit of all people. In that case it would matter less what is true and what is false. People of this world need help from those who earn money with slick ease.
:toothy1:


There is a reason why the ancient people of the East say that this world is an illusion. Imagine those who win wars and own the press write their own history, force the fallen government to obey them blindly as they get the blame for everything 100% (it's easier this way as this covers up their own crimes), just like a gangster club they create laws for the benefit of the rich 99%, while giving crumbs to the poor, pretending to be all so disgustingly ethical. You think the history of the World is believable when all history seems to be for the most part to be nothing other than a never ending incredibly unjust scheme for money, power and control? We are almost reaching a point of a break down of civilization from these games of no return. The truth is, Humanity never in the history was able to build a well knit society for the good and benefit of all (hence, we are failing as humanity). We are being lied to daily - be aware! In war there are only loosers for the winners of war even more corrupt - so it seems.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 1:06 pm)

twila wrote:So, again - What are their main points of disagreement?

Anyone?

The main point of the disagreement is whether Wiesel wrote the book or not. Carolyn claims somebody else did, believing Grüner's story. Eric claims Wiesel wrote the book (based on the age of the young Wiesel in the original Yiddish version (14, although Wiesel would really be 15)) and that Grüner is lying.

At first Carolyn's theory was that somebody much older wrote the book, but now that Eric has shown the writer was the same age as Wiesel, I'm guessing Carolyn's new theory is that somebody a year younger than Wiesel wrote the book.
Last edited by Toshiro on Sat May 05, 2012 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby twila » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 1:35 pm)

Thank you very much Toshiro.

I assume that this:

At first Carolyn's theory was that somebody much older wrote the book, but now that Eric has shown the writer was the same age as Wiesel, I'm guessing Carolyn's new theory is that somebody a year older than Wiesel wrote the book.


means that you side with Eric.

If my assumption is correct, could you please tell me how it is known for a fact that Eric is right and Carolyn is wrong on this main point of the disagreement?

Thank you.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 2:27 pm)

I used to be of the opinion that Wiesel indeed stole somebody else's book, but now that Eric pointed out the age in the original Yiddish, Occam's razor tells me this is not so, and that Grüner is just your typical lying Holohoaxer, no better than Wiesel himself. Neither of them are to be trusted. Whether Wiesel actually wrote the book or not changes nothing. He and his book are still a sack of lies, however you take it.

Of course, there is always the possibility that Wiesel simply edited the original draft by someone else and changed the names, ages, etc. (still made himself a year younger for some reason), but we will never know. To me, it doesn't matter, because in the big picture of the "holocaust", he and his book are no evidence of anything. Just an annoying little weasel and his tale of lies.
Last edited by Toshiro on Sat May 05, 2012 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby twila » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Fri May 04, 2012 3:50 pm)

Thank you for your time and answers Toshiro.

Grüner is just your typical lying Holohoaxer, no better than Wiesel himself. Neither of them are to be trusted... To me, it doesn't matter, because in the big picture of the "holocaust", he and his book are no evidence of anything. Just an annoying little weasel and his tale of lies.


I don't disagree with you at all, however, this:

The main point of the disagreement is whether Wiesel wrote the book or not.


Is what I'm trying to figure out, and I now know that Eric says he did and Carolyn says he didn't.

From what I've read and know about the two (and about the weasel itself), I side with Carolyn.

However, I would like to see Erics "proof" so I can make up my own mind on this matter.

Does anyone know of a link where I can go and study Erics alleged proof?

Perhaps Eric himself can simplify things by presenting his proof right here and be available to answer questions about it?

Also, for what it's worth, I would like to know who's side Robert Faurisson, Carlo Mattogno, David O'Connell, and Alex Cockburn take on this issue.

Does anyone know?

Thanks.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Sat May 05, 2012 3:23 am)

twila wrote:Does anyone know of a link where I can go and study Erics alleged proof?

viewtopic.php?p=49124#p49124
viewtopic.php?p=48974#p48974

twila wrote:From what I've read and know about the two (and about the weasel itself), I side with Carolyn.

Don't side based on people's personalities, side with where the evidence points. You'd be surprised...

I'm not sure what Mattogno's position on who wrote the book is, but he believes there were two Wiesels, the one that got the number A-7713, and the imposter, Elie Wiesel.

Read more about it here and here.
Last edited by Toshiro on Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: question about Elie Wiesel's NIGHT ???

Postby twila » 8 years 2 weeks ago (Sat May 05, 2012 1:03 pm)

Thank you very much Toshiro.

I will check that information out.


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