Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

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Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Mkk » 7 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:53 pm)

*Points to title*

I certainly think it does - not just among non-Germans, but among Germans themselves.

On two separate occasions I have had people say to me they hate Germans because of "what they did to the Jews". The anti-Nazi propaganda that appears every day in the newspapers, on TV and so on permeates our whole view of history, and as everyone knows the view is unquestionably negative. Looking at some of these articles from a revisionist perspective, it is hard not to be taken over by the wording; of the "evil" and "atrocities" and "death camps" and "assembly line killings" and "gas chambers" - all so horrific and disturbing - all blamed on the "German Nazis". Am I reading too far into this, or is it just subtle propaganda? I think the latter. The principal tenants of the Nazi ideology (the main ones include racialism, and traditional roles for women, for example) are utterly rejected by most people today, perhaps leaving some people wondering how the Germans once believed all this?

We know what Ellie Wiesel once said: That ever Jew should hate the Germans. You could probably find simmiliar statements.

The Holocaust storyline also provokes feelings of guilt in the German populace. In no other country is a alleged genocide by it's people pushed so hard. Japan and Turkey often try to downplay or belittle their alleged crimes over 70 years ago. The Germans can only feel disillusioned with their past, unlike the patriotic histories of other countries. These feelings are echoed with the words of German politicians: We have heard Merkel apologise for the alleged events of WW2 many times over.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby JoFo » 7 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:25 pm)

Even if the holocaust had actually taken place, I don't believe our current perception of Germans--then or now--would be anywhere near its current stature were it not for the constant bombardment of negative imagery we get from the media. In my opinion, the holocaust legacy tends to single out Third Reich Germans as the "epitome" of all the worst in human tendencies: racism, militarism, brutality, etc. when in reality they were/are no different than anybody else in this world. People now have the luxury of saying "if you think this is bad, it's nothing compared to what the Germans did...". I wouldn't call it racism; more like a manufactured stigma.

After three years of reading up on this subject, I now have a profound sense of sympathy for what ordinary Germans have experienced--from the consolidation of their country under Bismarck to the destruction of their country after Hitler. I can't imagine what it's like to have made the sacrifices they did and now only be allowed to commemorate them with a sense of shame. It ain't right!

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby borjastick » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:55 am)

When I was growing up in sixties England us boys used to read war comics like 'Commando'. They were full of action stories about daring do by British troops outdoing the Germans. The language was always demeaning, words like Dumbkopf and Schweinhund were all over the place. These stories conditioned us. As did all the war films of the time that portrayed the Germans as krauts and dirty pigs. Though the holocaust was never mentioned as far as I recall.

I can distinctly remember being on holiday in ireland in the early seventies and coming into contact with a German family, also on holiday. I was petrified of them. For no good reason of course!

In the late seventies and early eighties I had the opportunity to visit Germany on business and pleasure. Imagine my surprise when I discovered a lovely country, with wonderfully friendly, educated, organised people. They worked hard, were pleasant to me, laughed a lot and drank very nice beer.

By this time I was well aware of the holocaust as my school indoctrination on the subject was well delivered into my little brain. In Germany on my many visits I grew more attracted to the country, to the point that about 7 years ago when my life changed I considered moving to Germany to live.

The racism and indoctrination of youngsters may have stopped now, but to a generation or two born after the war and of course those born in between the wars, who number probably 5 million in UK, the damage was done by the media.

Germans and Germany have had to live with a lot. Though some would understandably say they brought it on themselves.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby HaaDeeCee » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:09 am)

borjastick said:
"...Though some would understandably say they [Germans] brought it on themselves..."

Would you please elaborate on this? How exactly did the Germans bring this on themselves? I'm assuming here you mean WWII and the destruction of Germany?

If you believe that Germany brought this on themselves then you have learned nothing here.

HdC

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby borjastick » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:41 am)

HaaDeeCee, all I meant was that the agressor and instigator in any war, should they then go on to lose, will be blamed and ridiculed for it. It's not a direct comment on the Holocaust, but that Germany did start invading those around it which directly and indirectly led to the escalation of the war. I make no criticism of Germany. Germany was trying to redress the unfair balance after the treaty of Versailles.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Charles Traynor » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:58 am)

I had similar youthful experiences to borjastick re. comic books, television and cinema whilst growing up in Britain during the 1960s.

When I first arrived in West Germany during the mid 80s I was expecting to find a nation of militaristic psychopaths. Instead I came across some of the most decent and likeable people I have ever met.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:51 pm)

borjastick wrote:HaaDeeCee, all I meant was that the agressor and instigator in any war, should they then go on to lose, will be blamed and ridiculed for it. It's not a direct comment on the Holocaust, but that Germany did start invading those around it which directly and indirectly led to the escalation of the war. I make no criticism of Germany. Germany was trying to redress the unfair balance after the treaty of Versailles.

I grew up in much the same environment as Borjastick and took it for granted that Hitler was an evil madman who wanted to take over the world. I began to question the this some 10 to 15 years ago as I learned gradually that Hitler did not want war with Britain and that his attempt to invade Britain was a feeble ill-prepared business with little chance of success. I looked at how we declared war in support of Poland and then did nothing, leaving Poland to the horrors of war on its territory and two brutal occupations. I also realised that the accusation of world conquest was a) absurd, given Germany's geographical position and b) somewhat hypocritical from the power which ruled over the "Empire on which the sun never set". I thought that if Germany and Russia wanted to fight each other that was not something we should have got involved in. The "Holocaust" was not an issue, because whatever happened, happened. We hadn't stopped it. I later concluded that it had been either triggered or aggravated by the war, before finally concluding that it wasn't what it was generally believed to have been.

What first got me thinking seriously about the causes of the war was an article by Peter Hichens: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560700/Was-World-War-Two-just-pointless-self-defeating-Iraq-asks-Peter-Hitchens.html. Later I went on to read the book by Patrick Buchanan which had convinced him. It was an eye-opener, so I went on to read A J P Taylor's Origins of the Second World War. (I was by now open-minded on the Holocaust. It was a month or two later that I finally was convinced.) Taylor raised a storm in 1961 when he suggested that in foreign affairs Hitler and Germany had behaved no differently from other powers. I also read a more contentious book, David Hoggan's The Forced War. Hoggan is more one-sided (he even claims no one died on Crystal Night) but his book is packed with detail of the day-to-day events.

I have come to the conclusion that Hitler was seeking to reclaim lands lost by Germany or Austria that were mainly German-speaking, and that would all, given self-determination, have chosen to join Germany. He may have been seeking a confrontation with Russia in the longer term but he had renounced all ambitions in the West, even Alsace. Over Danzig he was offering to recognise the existing frontiers with Poland (something that Weimar had never done). He wanted self-determination for Danzig (90% German) but offered free access to the port for Poland. He wanted an autobahn under German control across the corridor and sought an alliance with Poland, that would have guaranteed Poland against attack from the Soviet Union. Poland, which had threatened to invade Germany as recently as 1932, would have negotiated, but was encouraged by Britain to remain intransigent. It is hard to avoid the impression that Britain was encouraging this intransigence in order to provoke Germany into the attack which would be the excuse for an Anglo-French declaration of war. As soon as Poland had been occupied Hitler sought to end the war and to hold a conference on the future of Poland. The occupations of Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, France, Yugoslavia etc. were part of the war, not invasions of conquest.

Churchill said something to the effect that whoever had been in charge in Germany we would have had to fight them. It was the traditional English/British Balance of Power that I learned in history at school. There was a strong faction in Britain looking to fight Germany from the mid-Thirties onward: the Left, Churchill and his entourage, the Jews. France was looking to contain Germany with alliances with countries to Germany's east. What others see as containment, the contained power may see as encirclement.

This was not "the war that had to be fought". It was however, by 1945, "the war that had to be justified".

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Hektor » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:17 pm)

There is definetley a correlation between Holocaust indoctrination and Germanophobia. I noticed this when discussiong the issue going like this. "You don't like Germans?" / "Why?" = "Because of what they did do to the Jews." Confront the caustians with this and you'll first get denial. Then they'll twist it to something in the sense that Germans deserve to be hated. The same people will tell you that "teaching the Holocaust is about tolerance". Bunch of hypocrites.

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby mikejohnson2006 » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:11 pm)

Yes it does promote Anti German Racism.

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Charles Traynor » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:08 am)

In order for the Jews to portray themselves to the world as the innocent victims of irrational Goy hatred there has to be a symbolic aggressor to point the finger at. I’m afraid that WWII has provided the Jews with the opportunity to target Germany.

The German people will continue to be the victims of racism for the foreseeable future unless Jewish control of the news and television industries in Europe and North America is broken.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Engel » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:49 pm)

I definitely believe that it does, in schools especially. I can tell you that from my personal experiences growing in school here in Canada, that being of German descent made any class on the topic of the "holocaust" particularly uncomfortable. Even more so because I have jewish family (not imediate family) so I would alwaysget the "You're german with jewish family? You must hate them" rhetoric from the other kids. It's sad that in this age of "political corectness" we teach our children hatred based on nothing.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby john p » 7 years 7 months ago (Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:42 pm)

There are some amazing essays available on line such as " nazi gassings.com" that say that Poland wanted to attack Germany as early as 1920? They believed Germany to be weak enough to be defeated easily.For some reason they didnt,but having said that they did mobilise their armies in March 1939 which in itself is an act of war against Germany.At the same time Russia was massing her army on the German borders,enough of a reason for Germany to react the way they did they attacked first as a defensive action.

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby Moderator » 7 years 7 months ago (Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:53 pm)

john p wrote:There are some amazing essays available on line such as " nazi gassings.com" that say that Poland wanted to attack Germany as early as 1920? They believed Germany to be weak enough to be defeated easily.For some reason they didnt,but having said that they did mobilise their armies in March 1939 which in itself is an act of war against Germany.At the same time Russia was massing her army on the German borders,enough of a reason for Germany to react the way they did they attacked first as a defensive action.

John,
That information from Fritz Berg is correct and is fairly easy to support with Russian sources and other factual information, but it is off topic to the subject of this forum. We do not generally discuss WWII military actions unless there is a direct tie-in clearly given to the so 'holocaust' story. I left the post because you are new here, but please read our guidelines.
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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby jeffersonian » 7 years 7 months ago (Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:06 pm)

I met a fellow in Europe once who spiced many conversations with comic/caustic anti-German remarks. It gradually became clear that he not only believed in the Holocaust, but was of the Jewish persuasion.

I think it is even more important, however, that the Holocaust has resulted in a severe and unnecessary psychological burden among Germans, who can't quite believe that they did that, but who are blamed for it so absolutely. Some of my relatives I know better than others. The ones I know well seem to operate in their lives at below their ability, as if they are subtly handicapped in some way. I think it has to do with this burden, of having 'caused' the war and of being related to those who 'killed all those Jews'.

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Re: Does the "Holocaust" story provoke anti-German racism?

Postby borjastick » 7 years 6 months ago (Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:52 am)

Bitter and angry from an early age, totally anti arab/muslim and filled with a total lack of ability to reason or think for themselves. A sad indictment but they have heaped great guilt and pain on Germany and Germans.

I think to those who know the truth, the 'holohoax' provokes more anti zion and anti semitism on jews, than does the other way around against Germany.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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