Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

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mikejohnson2006
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Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby mikejohnson2006 » 7 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:15 pm)

Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists are white racists/whitesupremacists/neo nazis/skinheads/ku klux klan members and or suppporters ? My question is can holocaust revisionists be of any race religion or from any nation and from any political views in other words can a holocaust revisionist be a democrat or a republican left wing or right wing or christian or jewish or muslim or white or arab or asian ? Are there any jewish holocaust revisionists ?

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby borjastick » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:30 am)

If the holocaust can be believed by any social, ethnic or religious group then so can it be questioned by the same types of people. Moreover they do. One of the best threads on this site is jewish revisionists. It is near the top, still page one I think. Read it carefully and you will enhance your knowledge hugely.
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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby JoFo » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:35 am)

Revisionists are frequently thought of as racists or neo-Nazis because that is what their opponents label them as. The answer to your second and third questions is essentially "yes". Anyone with an open mind and a desire for truth can be a revisionist. David Cole was a Jewish revisionist back in the 1990's and made some of the best arguments against the standard holocaust narrative before he was silenced. Check out some of his videos on YouTube.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Haldan » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:46 am)

People are conditioned to believe the worst of those who oppose the holocaust dogma. That's it really...
However once you get to know somebody who oppose this holocaust you quickly find that they easily can become your best friend. I have very rarely stumbled across somebody I'd label "racist" - in fact, I don't ever think I have really found a true racist.
Many "skinheads" and Hollywood-nazis actually believe the holocaust nonsense, and want it to be true as well.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:46 am)

Let us be honest on this. A large proportion of people who question the Holocaust are racist and/or neo-Nazis. I use the terms objectively not as insults. Carolyn Yeager, Fritz Berg and Eric Hunt, for example, would not reject this description. Support for Revisionism on the Web is largely from sites like Stormfront. This is what the public see. Mkk describes herself as a Nationalist and probably supports the BNP. Most of the people originally behind the IHR were White Nationalists. "Since "Holocaust Deniers" are a tiny proportion of the population as a whole and all right-wing racists are Deniers, racists obviously will make up a much larger proportion of Deniers.

This is not strange, when you think about it. You are hardly going to support a political group who murdered 6M people for no better reason than their ethnicity, so either 1) applying confirmation bias you will reject the Holocaust story because it is inconvenient to your support of a political grouping or 2) you will not be able to support that grouping until you have been convinced the Holocaust story is untrue. Even those of us who come from a completely different political background find that, once we have realised the reality of the "Holocaust", our perception of Hitler, the Nazis, the Jews (here I mean their political leadership rather than the ordinary people who suffered like ordinary Germans and Poles, etc.) and of the whole pre-war history undergoes a sea-change. The Nazis are no longer evil incarnate, but their actions are to be viewed as part of the larger picture that includes the Soviet Union, the British and French Empires, the aftermath of WW1, etc., and racial attitudes of the time.

It is probably fair to say that there are two types of Revisionist, though it is not a sharp delineation but more of a continuum. At one end is the type of person who makes pro-Nazi posts on YouTube spitting hate at all Jews as Jews with a handle such as "True Aryan". At the other is a liberal or socialist anti-racist who has simply looked at the facts and concluded that "it didn't happen as described". There is often considerable tension between these groups and we have seen it often enough on these boards, with hard-liners accusing moderates of not being proper Revisionists, and moderates accusing them of race hatred as opposed to rational criticism.

I like to point out to people that the first person to openly question the extermination-in-gas-chambers story was a French Socialist politician and Resistant who had been in Buchenwald and Dora and returned an total invalid.

There is nothing racist or anti-Jewish about Revisionism as such. It is about examining the facts of history. People's prejudices (either way) will affect their willingness to do this.

[Edit: Removed a reference to David Irving which I now think was not accurate and corrected punctuation.]

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Mkk » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:15 am)

Mkk describes herself as a Nationalist and probably supports the BNP.

Just to make this clear. I don't. But I am a Nationalist. :)

Kingfisher, I agree with your post. History is hopelessly tied up with Ideology nowadays; it is undoubtable that the Holocaust storyline is used as a pro "tolerance", anti-Right tool to debase all values used by the Nazi party, specifically racialism and anti-antisemitism, but anything else is often free game. For example, pro-gun advocates often say that Hitler - the evil incarnate to most people - had gun control laws, and since the opposite of evil is good, less strict gun control must be good. (BTW, Hitler did not ban guns at all, infact the period after WW1 saw a loosening of German gun control laws after the new constitution of 1919 banned them)

Anti-communists (and I'm not complaining about this) often use the alleged crimes of the Soviet Union and Communist China etc. to discredit communism, without even debating the inherent worth of the communist system.

Looking outside history, look at the whole debate over Race. Some of the most vocal race non-realists are know to have been Marxists or atleast on the left, such as Stephen Gould and Lewontin, both of which have been shown to twist science to fit their views. Meanwhile, books showing racial differences often include "policy" in this aspect. Certainly that is not to say they all do; the Cavalli-Sforza and Rushton books both affirming the existence of race feature no such things.


Just my two cents...
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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby JoFo » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:32 pm)

Many people who support the holocaust story could be considered racists as well. I found that out when engaging some of them in YouTube debates and the conversation veered to Israeli/Palestinian relations. The most important thing is to properly present your motivations for taking a side in this argument. The evidence is there to completely reject the gas chamber/extermination campaign premise without race ever entering the picture.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Hannover » 7 years 7 months ago (Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:36 pm)

People of true European descent are the only ones that not allowed to display pride in their people. For everyone else they call it 'unity', 'black pride', 'brown pride', 'anti-defamation', etc. If we say the same thing as they do it's 'racism'.

The 'holocaust' storyline is an attack upon and a vehicle to prevent the Europeans and the European diaspora from showing any signs of self preservation. The 'holocaust' is also a racist false narrative used to bolster Jewish supremacism and bring cash, power, and social deference to them. Simple as that.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Cloud » 7 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:56 pm)

mikejohnson2006 wrote:Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists are white racists/whitesupremacists/neo nazis/skinheads/ku klux klan members and or suppporters ? My question is can holocaust revisionists be of any race religion or from any nation and from any political views in other words can a holocaust revisionist be a democrat or a republican left wing or right wing or christian or jewish or muslim or white or arab or asian ? Are there any jewish holocaust revisionists ?

mikejohnson2006 wrote:Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists are white racists/whitesupremacists/neo nazis/skinheads/ku klux klan members and or suppporters ? My question is can holocaust revisionists be of any race religion or from any nation and from any political views in other words can a holocaust revisionist be a democrat or a republican left wing or right wing or christian or jewish or muslim or white or arab or asian ? Are there any jewish holocaust revisionists ?

It may have something to do with images like this:

Image

Also, the avatar selections of some of the forum members probably help reinforce this belief.

Concerning political views among revisionists, they do vary. I believe Germar Rudolf stated on his website that he's a "social libertarian." And Jurgen Graf I believe sympathizes with Palestinians and is anti-abortion and anti-homosexual. I can't remember the name of that paper that wrote where he revealed that.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Hannover » 7 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:09 pm)

Cloud:
It may have something to do with images like this:


Image

But who's to say that these guys are actually Klansmen?

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby fountainhead » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:05 pm)

Hannover wrote:But who's to say that these guys are actually Klansmen?

Do we have any reason to believe that they are anything else? What else would they be? I mean, I know that a couple of Jews have even been caught spray-painting swastikas on their property, but would they ever stage something as out in the open as what's in that picture?
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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Hannover » 7 years 7 months ago (Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:40 pm)

fountainhead wrote:
Hannover wrote:But who's to say that these guys are actually Klansmen?

Do we have any reason to believe that they are anything else? What else would they be? I mean, I know that a couple of Jews have even been caught spray-painting swastikas on their property, but would they ever stage something as out in the open as what's in that picture?

You don't believe that supremacist Zionists would engage in such staged activities? The 'holocaust' is as staged as it gets, so ....

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby jeffersonian » 7 years 7 months ago (Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:27 pm)

Cloud is basically correct. But the association stems more deeply from the fact that there is an overlap between people who perceive the truth of WWII history, and people who perceive the general problem of the Jews and the problems they have arranged for us via banking tricks and multi-racial immigration. The Holocaust is a special attack by the Jews against people of European descent, although of course anyone may take an interest. Similarly, international enslavement of Africans was a special attack by Jews against Africans, although anyone may take an interest in studying that. But mainly, we don't control the media. So the enemy puts out the associations that work for them. They vilify us, because they don't want their actions uncovered.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Hektor » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:03 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:Let us be honest on this. A large proportion of people who question the Holocaust are racist and/or neo-Nazis. I use the terms objectively not as insults. Carolyn Yeager, Fritz Berg and Eric Hunt, for example, would not reject this description....
There is no way one can use those terms "objectively" as they are designed to smear. Basically they are semantic fraud anyway since they aren't meaningful, but rather have the character of loaded language.
That some people don't "reject this description" doesn't make them more objective or scientific. They are vocabulary or political polemics and manipulation, that's why they are generally rejected.

Certainly I won't dispute the idea that many Holocaust unbelievers are holding positive views of National Socialism and have more realistic outlook on race, then the usual political correct ones. But why is that the case. I think there are mainly two routes to that. Someone interested in National Socialism will certainly also come across Holocaust related issue. He also will investigate this deeper then the ordinary guy. So it's far more likely he will support the Revisionist conclusion then the superficial Lemming that's spoon fed with propaganda in the school and media.
Then of course of course it works the other way round as well. Just imagine you are a more open minded normal guy that became interested in World War 2 history or you can see how the Holocaust issue is abused for cheap propaganda again and again. Finally you find out that the Holocaust is a big lie. Certainly you will be more open minded to political ideas that first were taboo due to the Holocaust dogma.

Then of course the "Holocaust Revisionism can't be right because neo-Nazis support it" argument is fundamentally flawed, since it is ad hominem. It doesn't matter how convincing lemmings do find it. And let's don't forget that most revisionist are actually cultural conservatives, libertarians and some times even people of the left.

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Re: Why do many people think that all holocaust revisionists

Postby Moderator » 7 years 6 months ago (Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:18 pm)

Nessie:
Stay on topic. Thanks.
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