Leuchter Report, question.

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Leuchter Report, question.

Postby Masonblazer » 8 years 6 months ago (Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:05 pm)

I have been reading over the Leuchter Report and i just have one question. As we know they found much higher traces of cyanide in the delousing chambers then were found in the "gas chambers". This of course goes against what you would expect if the stories were true. However, why would they have found "any" traces of cyanide at all in these buildings if they were just crematoriums? I am just trying to play devil's advocate here. I don't believe the "gas chamber" stories were even close to accurate. Of course the vast millions of people that are claimed to be, could not and would not have been done in such a haphazard way. In his report the evidence is shown that cyanide gas was present in these buildings. Both the delousing chambers and the crematorium buildings. Luechter's report shows there is not evidence to support that thousands or millions of people were being gassed in these chambers. Does his report show that these gassing could of taken place though? In drastically less amounts then were claimed, but nevertheless they may have taken place in some instances. Maybe that is why these stories started spreading around the camps to begin with. This is just what i was thinking after reading the report. If this topic was discussed i must have read past it and i do apologize if i did. Is there an alternate explanation as to why there is any trace evidence of cyanide in the supposed "gas chambers"?

I mean this would make more sense to me, if there were a few isolated incidences of people actually being gassed to death. One could see how the story could get out and then spread like typhus did through all the camps until the Jewish inhabitants themselves actually believed that this was going on everywhere.
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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby Hannover » 8 years 6 months ago (Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:36 pm)

Masonblazer wrote:I have been reading over the Leuchter Report and i just have one question. As we know they found much higher traces of cyanide in the delousing chambers then were found in the "gas chambers". This of course goes against what you would expect if the stories were true. However, why would they have found "any" traces of cyanide at all in these buildings if they were just crematoriums? I am just trying to play devil's advocate here. I don't believe the "gas chamber" stories were even close to accurate. Of course the vast millions of people that are claimed to be, could not and would not have been done in such a haphazard way. In his report the evidence is shown that cyanide gas was present in these buildings. Both the delousing chambers and the crematorium buildings. Luechter's report shows there is not evidence to support that thousands or millions of people were being gassed in these chambers. Does his report show that these gassing could of taken place though? In drastically less amounts then were claimed, but nevertheless they may have taken place in some instances. Maybe that is why these stories started spreading around the camps to begin with. This is just what i was thinking after reading the report. If this topic was discussed i must have read past it and i do apologize if i did. Is there an alternate explanation as to why there is any trace evidence of cyanide in the supposed "gas chambers"?

I mean this would make more sense to me, if there were a few isolated incidences of people actually being gassed to death. One could see how the story could get out and then spread like typhus did through all the camps until the Jewish inhabitants themselves actually believed that this was going on everywhere.

The slight traces found would have been due the occasional fumigation of the crematorium. You have to remember that lice infected typhus victims were cremated in those, well, crematoriums, hence the occasional fumigation leading to the traces found, which in comparison to the alleged homicidal use are absurdly low. The alleged 'gas chambers' would have revealed massive amounts of cyanide residue. They do not.
His report shows emphatically that the alleged gassing sites could not have been used as homicidal gas chambers, ever. The gassings as alleged are scientifically impossible, read on.

See this thread:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

Leuchter's findings are supported in The Rudolf Report, discussed in recommended thread above, and full text here:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
Contents:
The Rudolf Report
Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects
of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz

This Expert Report--online version-- is dedicated to Ernst Zündel who, at the time when this document was released, was held in jail as a result of his dissenting historical views.
Read more about this dedication.
Click on the cover to view a larger version

Table of Content
1. Prelude, p. 11
1.1. Slow Death in U.S. Gas Chambers, p. 11
1.2. Hydrogen Cyanide—a Dangerous Poison, p. 15
1.3. The Acid that Causes Blue Stains, p. 20
2. The Coup, p. 23
2.1. Fred Leuchter on Auschwitz and Majdanek, p. 23
2.2. Damage Control, p. 26
3. The Origins, p. 29
3.1. On the Problem, p. 32
3.2. On Politics, p. 36
4. A Brief History of Forensic Examinations of Auschwitz, p. 39
4.1. Introduction, p. 39
4.2. The Moral Obligation of Forensic Examination, p. 39
4.3. A Definition of Forensic Science, p. 41
4.4. Forensic Science and Auschwitz, p. 42
4.4.1. Forensics in the Courts, p. 42
4.4.1.1. The 1946 Cracow Auschwitz Trial, p. 42
4.4.1.2. The 1964-1966 Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial, p. 44
4.4.1.3. The 1972 Vienna Auschwitz Trial, p. 45
4.4.2. Forensics Outside the Courts, p. 46
4.4.2.1. In Search of Mass Graves, p. 46
4.4.2.2. Faurisson and the Consequences, p. 46
5. Auschwitz, p. 49
5.1. Introduction, p. 49
5.1.1. "Opera During the Holocaust, p. 49
5.1.2. On the History of the Camp, p. 51
5.2. Epidemics and the Defense Against them, p. 59
5.2.1. Danger of Epidemics, p. 59
5.2.2. Epidemic Control with Zyklon B, p. 60
5.2.3. Epidemic Control in Auschwitz, p. 65
5.2.3.1. Terminology Used and Responsibilities, p. 65
5.2.3.2. Procedures Used, p. 67
5.2.3.3. Results, p. 68
5.2.3.4. Basic Policy Decisions, p. 69
5.2.3.5. The Army Medical Officer, p. 70
5.2.3.6. Short-Wave Delousing Facility, p. 73
5.2.4. Disinfestation Installations BW 5a und 5b, p. 73
5.3. ‘Gas Chamber’ in the Auschwitz I Main Camp, p. 78
5.4. ‘Gas Chambers’ in Birkenau Camp, p. 88
5.4.1. Crematoria II and III, p. 88
5.4.1.1. Starting Situation, p. 88
5.4.1.2. The Obsessive Search for "Criminal Traces", p. 94
5.4.1.2.1. New Cellars Stairways, p. 95
5.4.1.2.2. Gassing Cellar, Undressing Room, and Showers, p. 96
5.4.1.2.3. "Gas-tight Doors" for Crematorium II, p. 103
5.4.1.2.4. Ventilation Installations, p. 107
5.4.1.2.5. Pre-heated Morgues, p. 108
5.4.1.2.6. "Cremation with Simultaneous Sonderbehandlung", p. 109
5.4.1.2.7. "Gas Testers" and "Indicator Devices for HCN Residues", p. 111
5.4.1.2.8. Zyklon B Introduction Holes, p. 113
5.4.1.2.9. Conclusions, p. 133
5.4.2. Crematoria IV and V, p. 135
5.4.3. Farmhouses 1 and 2, p. 139
5.4.4. The Drainage System in Birkenau, p. 141
5.4.4.1. Background: Eyewitness Accounts, p. 141
5.4.4.2. The Ground Water Table in Birkenau, p. 141
5.4.4.3. Open-Air Incineration in Pits, p. 143
5.5. Construction Conclusions, p. 145
6. Formation and Stability of Iron Blue, p. 151
6.1. Introduction, p. 151
6.2. Instances of Damages to Buildings, p. 152
6.3. Properties of Hydrogen Cyanide, HCN, p. 155
6.4. Composition of Iron Blue, p. 158
6.4.1. Overview, p. 158
6.4.2. Excursus, p. 158
6.5. Formation of Iron Blue, p. 159
6.5.1. Overview, p. 159
6.5.2. Water Content, p. 161
6.5.2.1. Overview, p. 161
6.5.2.2. Excursus, p. 161
6.5.3. Reactivity of Trivalent Iron, p. 163
6.5.3.1. Overview, p. 163
6.5.3.2. Excursus, p. 163
6.5.4. Temperature, p. 164
6.5.4.1. Overview, p. 164
6.5.4.2. Excursus, p. 167
6.5.5. pH Value, p. 168
6.6. Stability of Iron Blue, p. 170
6.6.1. pH Sensitivity, p. 170
6.6.2. Solubility, p. 171
6.6.2.1. Overview, p. 171
6.6.2.2. Excursus, p. 172
6.6.3. Excursus: Competing Ligands, p. 175
6.6.4. Effects of Light, p. 176
6.6.4.1. Overview, p. 176
6.6.4.2. Excursus, p. 176
6.6.5. Long-Term Test, p. 177
6.7. Influence of Various Building Materials, p. 180
6.7.1. Brick, p. 180
6.7.1.1. Overview, p. 180
6.7.1.2. Excursus, p. 181
6.7.2. Cement Mortar and Concrete, p. 181
6.7.2.1. Overview, p. 181
6.7.2.2. Excursus, p. 182
6.7.3. Lime Mortar, p. 185
6.7.4. Effects upon the Formation of Iron Blue, p. 185
7. Zyklon B for the Killing of Human Beings, p. 191
7.1. Toxicological Effect of HCN, p. 191
7.2. Evaporation Characteristics of Zyklon B, p. 194
7.3. The Gassing of Human Beings, p. 196
7.3.1. Eyewitness Testimonies, p. 196
7.3.1.1. Boundary Conditions, p. 196
7.3.1.2. Eyewitness Fantasies, p. 199
7.3.1.3. Quantities of Poison Gas, p. 208
7.3.1.3.1. Overview, p. 208
7.3.1.3.2. Excursus 1: Poisoning or Suffocation?, p. 211
7.3.1.3.3. Excursus 2: HCN Loss due to Adsorption, p. 216
7.3.2. Critique of the Eyewitness Descriptions, p. 218
7.3.2.1. Theatre of the Absurd, p. 218
7.3.2.1.1. Necessity of Co-Operation, p. 218
7.3.2.1.2. Failure to Separate the Sexes, p. 219
7.3.2.1.3. Towel and Soap, p. 220
7.3.2.2. Speed of Ventilation of the ‘Gas Chambers’, p. 220
7.3.2.2.1. Introduction, p. 220
7.3.2.2.2. Excursus, p. 220
7.3.2.2.3. Ventilation of the Morgues of Crematorium II and III, p. 223
7.3.2.3. Simulation Calculations, p. 227
7.3.2.4. Excursus: Capacity of Protective Filters, p. 230
7.3.3. Evaluation of Eyewitnesses, p. 233
7.3.4. An Expert on Cyanide Speaks Out, p. 238
7.3.5. Why Precisely Zyklon B?, p. 241
8. Evaluation of Chemical Analyses, p. 245
8.1. Test Sample Taking and Description, p. 245
8.2. Analytical Methods, p. 246
8.3. Evaluation of Analytical Results, p. 247
8.3.1. F.A. Leuchter/Alpha Analytic Laboratories, p. 247
8.3.2. Institute for Forensic Research, Cracow, p. 250
8.3.3. G. Rudolf/Fresenius Institute, p. 252
8.3.3.1. Samples 1-4: Crematorium II, Morgue 1, p. 253
8.3.3.2. Samples 5 to 8 and 23, 24: Inmate Barracks, p. 258
8.3.3.3. Samples 9 to 22: Disinfestation Building, p. 258
8.3.3.4. Samples 25-30: Tests, p. 265
8.3.4. John C. Ball, p. 268
8.4. Discussion of the Analysis Results, p. 269
8.4.1. Blue Wall Paint?, p. 269
8.4.2. False Method of Analysis, p. 270
8.4.3. The Memory Hole, p. 273
8.4.4. The Moon is Made of Pizza, p. 276
8.4.5. Anticipated Values, p. 279
8.4.6. Limits of the Chemical Method, p. 283
9. Conclusions, p. 287
10. Acknowledgements, p. 293
11. Hunting Germar Rudolf, p. 297
11.1. What Makes Revisionists?, p. 297
11.2. The Naiveté of a Young Revisionist, p. 316
11.3. Flaws of a State Under the Rule of Law, p. 330
11.4. Rudolf’s Thought ‘Crimes’, p. 345
11.5. The Media and the Case of Germar Rudolf, p. 383
11.6. Outlawed in the Federal Republic of Germany, p. 404
11.7. Biographical Notes on the Author, p. 421
12. Bibliography, p. 423
12.1. Monographs, p. 423
12.2. Periodical Articles, p. 428
12.3. Archival Documents, p. 434
12.4. Internet Documents, p. 434
12.5. Courts Files, Governmental Documents, p. 436
12.6. Video, Audio, and Unpublished Documents, p. 437
13. Lists
13.1. List of Tables, p. 439
13.2. List of Illustrations, p. 440
13.3. List of Graphs, p. 444
13.4. List of Abbreviations, p. 445
14. Index, p. 447

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:58 am)

Is the Leuchter report online?

Zyklon was used in two ways in the camps - to delouse clothing in specially designed rooms for that purpose, and also to delouse whole buildings by evacuating the building and treating it with Zyklon and then airing the building.

As I recall Leuchter tested not only the hoax gas chambers, but also other rooms in the camps for use as controls. A summary of these results would answer the question.

Leuchter also noted that the cyanide testing was only one aspect of his assessment of the hoax gas chambers, and that the rooms tested were prima facie not gas chambers for all sorts of reasons, e.g. no sealed doors, windows, no ventilation.

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby JoFo » 8 years 6 months ago (Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:12 pm)

MasonBlazer's question is one that has always bothered me as well. Is there solid documentary evidence that sanitary fumigations were carried out in the AHGC's of Auschwitz or is this merely a counter-hypothesis?

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby Hannover » 8 years 6 months ago (Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:04 pm)

JoFo wrote:MasonBlazer's question is one that has always bothered me as well. Is there solid documentary evidence that sanitary fumigations were carried out in the AHGC's of Auschwitz or is this merely a counter-hypothesis?

I think basic logic and the fact that the Germans did fumigate any and every place that where there was any possibility of typhus contagion speaks for itself, barracks were fumigated, as were clothing, machinery, you name it. Himmler himself explicitly ordered increased typhus counter measures. As for "solid documentary evidence", well that would be like asking for solid documentary evidence for rainfall at Auschwitz. To me it's a no brainer that a place where typhus victims were undressed, stored, prepared for cremation would mandate an occasional fumigation. It's pretty basic stuff.

In addition, as for the fantasy that the morgues could possibly have been used for homicidal gassings, I suggest JoFo read the first thread at this forum. It would have been scientifically impossible.
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111'

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby JoFo » 8 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:17 pm)

Don't get me wrong, Hannover; I am under no illusions that any homicidal gassings ever took place in those structures. I have indeed read the Cyanide Chemistry thread here as well as Leuchter's original report and Rudolf's follow-up analyses. They make perfect sense.

But I speak from experience when I say that the presence of any residual HCN in those areas affords the exterminationists a useful toe-hold to further confuse the issue. They go on to contrive all sorts of "reasons" why the remaining levels are so low. It would be very expedient to our case if someone turned up some sort of written order or memo that referenced planned fumigation operations in the camps outside of the delousing chambers. I'll bet something of that nature existed at some time or other.

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 6 months ago (Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:21 am)

JoFo wrote:Don't get me wrong, Hannover; I am under no illusions that any homicidal gassings ever took place in those structures. I have indeed read the Cyanide Chemistry thread here as well as Leuchter's original report and Rudolf's follow-up analyses. They make perfect sense.

But I speak from experience when I say that the presence of any residual HCN in those areas affords the exterminationists a useful toe-hold to further confuse the issue. They go on to contrive all sorts of "reasons" why the remaining levels are so low. It would be very expedient to our case if someone turned up some sort of written order or memo that referenced planned fumigation operations in the camps outside of the delousing chambers. I'll bet something of that nature existed at some time or other.


An alternative to written orders or memos - I see that Leutcher tested hoax gas chambers and real clothing fumigation rooms, but did not provide a control for rooms that had been fumigated using Zyklon that were neither hoax gas chambers or clothing fumigation rooms. That was a mistake, but easily corrected. All that is needed is a room that was fumigated but not claimed to be a hoax gas chamber, a good example would be the furnace room in Krema 1.

And, come to think of it, Leutcher did unwittingly test such a control surface. But, you have to get into the real details here .... so .. here goes ... the hoaxers now claim that the Russians removed a wall in the Krema 1 hoax gas chamber, and thus the unsealed door into what is now the hoax gas chamber was 'at the time of the gassings' a door to a waiting room and not the door to the gas chamber. However, were this the case then some of Leutcher's samples came from the waiting room which would be a control for a room that was not a hoax gas chamber or a clothing delousing room. I've even seen this argument presented before, I didn't come up with it.

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Re: Leuchter Report, question.

Postby trevor » 8 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:29 pm)

Rudolf tested the levels of total cyanide in several inmate barracks in Auschwitz:

8.3.3.2. Samples 5 to 8 and 23, 24: Inmate Barracks
"Samples 5 and 8 are from a large lump of plaster a few centimeters thick taken from the large room of the respective barracks (see Table 19, p. 254). A depth profile was not drawn up; the values must therefore be viewed as average values. Samples 6 and 7 are from the special room located at the west end of these barracks. Samples 23 and 24 are from the exterior wall of the large room of a third barrack.
Quantities of cyanide on the order of magnitude of those found by Leuchter in the alleged 'gas chambers' can apparently also be found in the wall material of the inmate barracks."

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/8.html#8.3.4.


He also took a control sample from a farmhouse in Bavaria. Nobody has ever suggested this farmhouse was used for homicidal or delousing gassings. The levels of total cyanide in the Bavarian house were the same as in the alleged gas chamber of Krema II:

"Rudolf cites the interesting case of a sample of building material taken from a farmhouse in the Bavarian countryside that showed a cyanide concentration of 9.6 mg/kg, which is of the same order as the 7.2 mg/kg found in the "gas chamber" of Krema II. This suggests that such low concentrations may well be a phenomenon of nature, or be below the practical detection level"
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n5p26_Zav ... html#52361


The study by IFRC Markiewicz et al. performed in 1994 says:

“Iron Blue (Prussian Blue) is extraordinarily stable in acids and is not destroyed by the influences of weathering, even over decades (chapter 6.6.).”

However, in both of the IFRC studies they tested their samples with analytical methods that were unable to detect the stable iron cyanide compounds (Prussian Blue).



SUMMARY:

IFRC Markiewicz et al.from 1990
Cyanide WITHOUT iron cyanide in mg CN-/kg
delousing chambers : 0.09 to 1.47
gas chambers: one sample contained 0.06 (the other samples did not contain traceable levels)


IFRC Markiewicz et al.from 1994
Cyanide WITHOUT iron cyanide in mg CN-/kg
delousing chambers: 0-0.8
gas chambers': 0-0.6


Leuchter:
TOTAL CYANIDE in mg CN-/kg
delousing chambers: 1025
gas chambers': 0-8


Rudolf
TOTAL CYANIDE in mg CN-/kg
delousing chambers: 1,000-13,000
gas chambers': 0-7


Ball
TOTAL CYANIDE in mg CN-/kg
delousing chambers: 2,780-3,170
gas chambers': 0-1.2

Germar Rudolf:
"In fact, the exclusion of Prussian blue from analytical detection must result in much lower cyanide traces for the delousing chambers, as non-iron cyanide compounds are not very stable and would therefore hardly be present after fifty years. The same is true for every room ever exposed to hydrogen cyanide. In fact, values close to the detection level must be expected. These are generally so unreliable that a proper interpretation is close to impossible. It can therefore be expected that the analysis of samples tested with such a method would deliver similar results for nearly every sampling of material that is many years old. Such an analysis would make it practically impossible to distinguish between rooms massively exposed to hydrogen cyanide and those which were not: all would have a cyanide residue of close to zero.
I believe that is exactly what the researchers from the Jan Sehn Institute wanted to achieve: values for both the delousing chambers and the alleged homicidal “gas chambers” with similar levels of cyanide residues"

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/8.html#ftn499


OK, so a random farmhouse in Bavaria has the same levels of total cyanide as the highest levels found in the gas chamber of Krema II where allegedly over 500 000 were gassed. (Enormous amounts of Zyklon B would have to be used to kill the victims within 5-20 minutes – as alleged).


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