What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"?

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu May 31, 2012 10:01 pm)

Respond to the question by simply saying: "No one was killed in gas chambers by the Nazis, no one!" Try to avoid those super boring discussions about the meaning of "holocaust" or "denial." Even if you win those super boring discussions, you accomplish nothing. No one really cares. Put some meat on the table instead.

One might also respond by saying: "The numbers of Jews who died in German-occupied Europe is minuscule compared to what is alleged!" Then you might be able to have an interesting and useful discussion.

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The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:43 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:One might also respond by saying: "The numbers of Jews who died in German-occupied Europe is minuscule compared to what is alleged!" Then you might be able to have an interesting and useful discussion.

But that's not the Revisionist position. That position is that however many died, it was as a consequence of war, not a deliberate policy of extermination using gas chambers. On your assertion, if they can prove that 3 million Jews died in the war you have lost your argument. On the formulation I suggest, they can prove that even 6 million died and our position can still be defended.

(I have no opinion on how many died, beyond that 6M is a gross exaggeration.)

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby twila » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:01 am)

Kingfisher:

I have no opinion on how many died, beyond that 6M is a gross exaggeration.


Then you have no business offering advise to anyone on how to debate the holohoax.


Kingfisher, is 5 million a gross exaggeration?

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby neugierig » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:20 am)

I’m no expert on anything, least of all the Holo and how to talk to True Believers. Some time ago we had a discussion about the gas vans at RODOH and I asked Roberto Muehlenkamp to pick one of the descriptions of a van and we’ll have a closer look at it. He refused, knowing that they could not have worked as described.

And that is what I meant when I wrote that I tell them that I believe in God, but everything else needs to be proven. I try to get them to tell me why they are convinced “it” happened and what they base it on. It works, for most don’t know anything about it. As for True Believers, get them to provide you with the ‘evidence’ but stay away from documents as much as possible, that part they have down pat. What I need to see to be convinced is substantial evidence, graves or a detailed description of a gas van.

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:38 pm)

All regular, nothing new. Revisionists didn't understand, they don't understand, they will not understand.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby The Warden » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:44 pm)

The best answer is an emphatic "Yes".

If more people took the time to research and get their facts straight instead of blindly accepting the story line, perhaps the sheer amount of people disregarding the stories would begin to have an effect. It's quite clear the masses have control, right or wrong.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:11 am)

The Warden wrote:The best answer is an emphatic "Yes".

If more people took the time to research and get their facts straight instead of blindly accepting the story line, perhaps the sheer amount of people disregarding the stories would begin to have an effect. It's quite clear the masses have control, right or wrong.

Hi Warden,

Few here would disagree with your second sentence. The only issue is whether the first sentence is the best way to achieve it. Mincuo, above, set out very well, very clearly, how 99% of people will not be hearing (let alone responding to) your answer on a rational level, but on an emotional one. Indeed this is how most people (and let's not exclude ourselves) respond to most things: on an emotional level.

The Holocaust Industry's great achievement has been a successful PR campaign that so surrounds this issue with emotion that rational initial responses to questioning it are rare indeed. People actually resist questioning the H because they have been conditioned to feel guilt if they do. This is the barrier we have to breach. Some of us feel it is best tackled with a sledgehammer, others by picking the lock.

[edited for clarity]

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:40 am)

Warden . You and me are walking, and
A) We see a woman across the street. You ask me, "do you know her?" I say, "just barely, only by sight". You say :" I know for a fact that she is a whore and a thief ". Now, I know that the entire neighborhood says that you are a liar and a bad guy, but I do not listen to gossip . However I am curious and ask you to tell the story of that girl . The level is rather rational (emotional is only due to the gossip and the contrast with your hard sentence on the girl. You should be careful with your explanation. It should be without any hate word (emotional) for her. Better if you find some (emotional) justifications for her.
B) We 're walking, and you say : "I know for a fact that your mother is a whore and a thief ".
No longer it is a rational level for me. In addition, you 're a bad guy, everybody says so.
Rational-emotional does not work. Rational-rational or emotive-emotive can work. So or you take me to a rationale level o you enter in my emotional level.
If i am in a emotional status, each added "fact " disturbs me more and more and it causes me pain. The pain could emerge rationally, but I forbid that. I defend myself unconsciously, not to feel pain.
Your "facts " will increase even more my emotional status, because they provoke a cognitive dissonance, namely pain. On a rational level, all that I need is to move from the "facts" to the person who says them. The facts don't matter, is the person who is bad (the link between emotional and rational).
And really the person is bad because everybody says so. Now everything fits, I save my emotional status and I have a rationale explanation. And that brings me back to a cognitive consonance. Now I'm fine, I feel relieved.

"Do you deny the Holocaust?" 1)"YEs, it is a Hoax, it never happened". 2) I don't believe it happened.
Reaction: 1) cognitive dissonance. Pain. I feel the urge to defend. 2) You are a bad guy, all the people say that. The End.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:20 am)

Try saying aloud the word "Jews " . Now ponder deeply. Ask yourself if it's a normal word, as " Protestant " or "Hindus" . It is not. Without you are noticing it has an unconscious component. While you're saying "Jews" something has moved in your unconscious attention.
Try saying " Nazi ". It is not a normal word that defines a specific political group (more or less bad). It's a word which has no boundary. Like the word “devil”.
Try saying " Holocaust " . It is not a normal word, which only defines a massacre. It has not a precise boundary. It's not a simple fact, it's religious, magic. (BTW Wiesel is correct on that).
Those words have been scientifically implanted in the unconscious, in the emotional sphere . Propaganda works in the unconscious sphere. So the unconscious deeply overwhelms the rational.
Normally you treat a sick person in a different way from a healthy person. You care more for him. But you do not pay any attention to treat carefully a person made ill by propaganda.
You want to deal with a person, say, with 80 % emotional and 20 % rationale and you pretend that a shock (the facts) will change that 20% in, say, 60 %. The normal result is that you destroy even the 20%.
You must firstly assure a person on an emotional level , you have to assure him that their emotions are also yours. And they are, it's not a lie. You are a human being, you feel mercy, pity, pain, love, respect......
This is the first requirement to obtain confidence.
Each increment on a rational level should not have serious consequences on his emotional, only increment the rationale, separating the fields.
That way is for normal people in good faith but with their brains washed. That has nothing to do with Muelhenkamp, Mathis, etc. .. It's a completely different situation. You aren't dealing with persons in good faith.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby The Warden » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:24 am)

I don't concern myself with the emotion of the person asking me if I deny the Holocaust. Both of your responses (KF and mincuo) are methods used to tiptoe around the feelings of the same exact kind of person who is the problem. You'll note I did not go into an explanation in my answer, just a simple "Yes" said with conviction. The person who blindly accepts what they're told is of no value to me, nor is their opinion. Sure... most of us have been Believers at one point, but it wasn't someone I asked "Do you deny the Holocaust?" who turned things around for me. It was knowing there were others out there who did, and allowing my curiosity to find the information for myself. Giving value to the emotions and the opinion of a Believer is a waste of time. However, to reiterate, if more and more people made it known they didn't believe the story line as told by the Industry, more people would find themselves curious. People want the work done for them, and I'm not going to do it for someone who's more interested in guilt and shame controlling their every move. If they just want someone to yell at to make themselves feel better, they can find someone else.

My answer remains as a simple "Yes".
From there, they can watch me walk away.
Now, if they find themselves wanting to ask more questions, I'll ask them to be specific about their topic, and ask them for an email address so I can send them the links to get them started, or point them here directly. I feel it's very important to let them do the reading. One door opens ten more when reading about this topic, and that's the key to keeping them interested, not me throwing bullet points at them.

EDIT: Original sentiment corrected.
Last edited by The Warden on Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:30 am)

When a Revisionist is asked for (by a normal person) "Do you deny the Holocaust?" he automatically translates: "Do you deny the extermination plans, the 6 millions, and the gas chambers?" (which are what he denies, rationally). But that's really at the best only a part, successive, confused and not correctly separate, or even well known by the asker. The question really for him (unconsciously) now is: "Do you deny the suffering, the pain, the pity?". When you answer: "I 'dont believe in the Holocaust" or "the Holocaust is a Hoax" and so on, you are really answering (i.e. you are understood by him): "I don't care for pity, suffering, pain". Yes, I know, that wasn't your intention, but you did. Now, you were already perceived as bad (everybody knows that a Denier, are a very bad, cynic person) and now you are confirming what everybody knows at the very first step, with a person willing to listen to you, but who first wanted (uncounsciously) to be reassured on this basic point. Good job. Astute.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:36 am)

The Warden wrote:I don't concern myself with the emotion of the person asking me if I deny the Holocaust. Both of your responses (KF and mincuo) are methods used to tiptoe around the feelings of the same exact kind of person who is the problem. You'll note I did not go into an explanation in my answer, just a simple "No" said with conviction. The person who blindly accepts what they're told is of no value to me, nor is their opinion. Sure... most of us have been Believers at one point, but it wasn't someone I asked "Do you deny the Holocaust?" who turned things around for me. It was knowing there were others out there who did, and allowing my curiosity to find the information for myself. Giving value to the emotions and the opinion of a Believer is a waste of time. However, to reiterate, if more and more people made it known they didn't believe the story line as told by the Industry, more people would find themselves curious. People want the work done for them, and I'm not going to do it for someone who's more interested in guilt and shame controlling their every move. If they just want someone to yell at to make themselves feel better, they can find someone else.

My answer remains as a simple "No".
From there, they can watch me walk away.
Now, if they find themselves wanting to ask more questions, I'll ask them to be specific about their topic, and ask them for an email address so I can send them the links to get them started, or point them here directly. I feel it's very important to let them do the reading. One door opens ten more when reading about this topic, and that's the key to keeping them interested, not me throwing bullet points at them.


I repeat: if one is mentally prepared, and barely a bit curious, he doesn't need Warden to know the facts. He needs Google, Youtube, or some books. He can find hundreds.
The problem is different. But Revisonist are notoriously obtuse on this point and they want to stay in their ghetto.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby mincuo » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am)

The real task for a Revisionist is not to explain the facts. It is to make the persons mentally prepared to know the facts. The persons aren't prepared, they are sick. Not their fault.
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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby borjastick » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:50 am)

I think we are making a mistake by assuming joe public is interested and wants to know more. They don't. Our job is to get people to ask the question 'is what I have been told about the holocaust (gas chambers and six million dead) true?' Once we get people to ask that question we can provide them with a rational and calm analysis of the facts.

Most people don't give a toss about the Holocaust, we do of course, but most don't and it never crosses their minds to ask questions.

I see our task as making people question it. Only then can we move them forward to a safer place in the knowledge that we have.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: What is the best answer to - "Do you deny the holocaust"

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:49 am)

borjastick wrote:Most people don't give a toss about the Holocaust, we do of course, but most don't and it never crosses their minds to ask questions.

They will continue to not give a toss. We should target our efforts on those most likely to listen or those in positions of influence.

"Those most likely to listen" include those who already, knowing something of Finkelstein's arguments, already suspect and dislike the "Holocaust Industry". Perhaps I am just following my own path here but it seems logical.

Finkelstein himself will not come over, but his arguments provide a stepping stone for others.


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