Really? What is it about then?
Holding an entire people guilty for a crime that they did not commit.
Moderator: Moderator
Really? What is it about then?
Steve, did Lucy Dawidowicz accept Hilberg's claim?
Did Rosh and Jäckel?
Did Czeslaw Rajca?
Steven Willow wrote:As far as Rosh and Jackel, I never heard of them. Who are they?
Steven Willow wrote:Here is Eberhard Jackel who Twila cited on Majdanek death figures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberhard_J%C3%A4ckel. I confess to never hearing of him, and he is clearly one of a slimy pack of German panderers who all try to outdo one another in their devotion to zionist aims.
In 2003, Rosh was elected "most embarrassing Berliner of the year" (peinlichste Berlinerin) by the readers of Berlin city magazine Tip.
Kladderadatsch wrote:Steven, I see you've been following up your leads on your own. Maybe you'll be back to post about Rosh as well, but just in case you don't, I've been googling around a little myself, so I'll add the Wikipedia article on Lea Rosh to everyone's must-read list here
RonTor wrote:I don't mean to be rude skcz, but I'm only interested in facts. Can you provide an authorative source for your statement?
Do you know of one scientific report that substantiates that any single place was used as a gas chamber? If so, please name it, said Christie.
"What do you mean by a scientific report?," asked Hilberg.
I don't usually have to define simple words, said Christie, but by "scientific report" I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory. (5-968)
"I still don't quite understand the import of your question," said Hilberg. "Are you referring to a German, or a post-war -"
I don't care who -- German, post-war, Allied, Soviet -- any source at all. Name one, said Christie.
"To prove what?," asked Hilberg.
To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report, repeated Christie.
"I am really at a loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but ... Again, I can only state that there have been aerial photographs that were analysed. Perhaps that is not in your definition of science. There have been contemporaneous documents about the lethality of the gas that was employed. Perhaps this is not important to you. There are documents -- " (5-969)
[...]
Judge Locke interrupted: "Doctor ... do you know of such a report?"
"No," replied Hilberg.
http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/09hilberg.html
RonTor wrote:I'll try skcz. From how I understand things, the factual statements found by twila all have authorative sources, many made by hard core believers themselves. And it appears that this is an irrefutable statement: "Not one person has ever been proven to have died via poison gas in a so-called "homicidal gas chamber" at the camp - NOT ONE!"
RonTor wrote:The confusion of your statement: "Not one homicidal gas chamber has ever been proven to exist and capable of what holocaust believers claims" comes from the fact that "gas chambers" do exist at the camp. I even read something somewhere about someone seeing a group of school children in tears as they were shown a "homocidal gas chamber" at Majdanek. If they are able to do that, then they are confusing people with a delousing chamber that does exist at the camp with a non existent "homocidal gas chamber".
RonTor wrote:Thanks, I'll look into that. Perhaps when I get done reading it I'll understand your position better.
Gas chambers exists, but only delousing chambers. What you described (I saw something like this in documentary Defamation) is not "confusing peoples", they are lying to them and I do not know why these peoples are not able to realize that what they see cannot be AHGH because of elementar reasons described above - glass window, doors opens inward, no locks, door can be opened from inside, no ventilation and so on.
In this case you do not need authoritative source for this statement?
RonTor wrote:I've read that he talks of 60,000 JEW deaths,
RonTor wrote:but what was the TOTAL number of dead he claimed?
"Certain authors regard the Jewish victims as the only ones worthy of note."
(J. GRAF, C. MATTOGNO, CONCENTRATION CAMP MAJDANEK, p. 89)
No, just a name of one person who was gassed, with proof, to prove it is false.
RonTor wrote:skczCorrect number for Jews is 50,000... So no total number for Majdanek from Hilberg, at least to my knowledge.
So Hilberg cannot be used as a source when talking about TOTAL number of deaths at Majdanek.
The document twila posted showed figures for claimed TOTAL deaths, not just JEW deaths.
So that makes all of Steven Willow's comments about twila spurious and thus can be dismissed.
(Steven was trying to confuse the issue by comparing apples to oranges instead of apples to apples, but it was very transparent.)
Steven WillowYou ask if Twila should have cited Hilberg's figures. Obviously, Twila cherry picked figures from insignificant Hoaxters to give the impression that Hoaxters have been incrementally goofing with these Majdanek figures. Leaving Hilberg out exposed Twila for not knowing who the real Hoaxters are and for baking the numbers to support an assertion that is untrue. So yes, without Hilberg's figures on Majdanek, Twila's argument won't get to first base.
From what I gather, twila posted a document she found and "made some improvements."
I see no evidence of twila "cherry picking" or "baking the numbers."
And I see no evidence of twila presenting an "argument," only facts. Facts that speak for themselves.
But I do see evidence that Hoaxters have been incrementally goofing with the Majdanek figures.
Evidence that is backed up with clear, irrefutable facts and authoritative sources.
The only assertions that I see that are untrue are Steven Willow's.
Not one statement in the document that twila posted is untrue.
I see no evidence of willful or even innocent deception.
So Steven, your argument doesn’t get to first base.
And it exposes you as a person who is unreliable and does not know what he's talking about.
A person who has subjected himself to a lot of abuse and ridicule.
Tighten it up, man.
And it exposes you as a person who is unreliable and does not know what he's talking about.
He concludes that a maximum of 2000 people were gassed, if this happened at all.
There was a 2,000,000 claim as well.
…
You can find Costello's report in:
- McNeish, James. The Sixth Man: The Extraordinary Life of Paddy Costello. London: Quartet Books. 2008. p.313-318
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