Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

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saiz
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby saiz » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:41 am)

Moderator wrote:saiz:
You were asked if you believe the alleged corpses in the picture were gassed, what is your reply?
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Yes of course I do.
Did you just delete a few posts here?



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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Moderator » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:52 am)

Yes, I did. They were just 'yes it is', 'no it isn't' silliness.
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:25 pm)

saiz wrote:
Moderator wrote:saiz:
You were asked if you believe the alleged corpses in the picture were gassed, what is your reply?
M1

Yes of course I do.

Would you please give us your proof for the alleged gas chambers, how the alleged 'gas chambers' worked, and show us the alleged human remains. And please,. do not just post a link and say 'here it is'. We want to read what you have to say.
Thanks, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby saiz » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 pm)

Hannover wrote:Would you please give us your proof for the alleged gas chambers, how the alleged 'gas chambers' worked, and show us the alleged human remains. And please,. do not just post a link and say 'here it is'. We want to read what you have to say.
Thanks, Hannover

Why should I repeat this when Pressac wrote an 500+ page book about this?
Read it, especially part 2, chapter 8 where Pressac presents 39 proofs for the existence of homicidal gas chambers.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0429.shtml

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby saiz » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:01 pm)

Kladderadatsch wrote:On the other hand, however, the anomaly must indeed be explained, convincingly, before anyone can be required to accept the two strands of evidence (testimony, picture) together as mutually confirming. They clearly contradict one another in fact, so while one or the other may be true, both cannot (though both can be false).

There is no contradiction. The picture is black-and-white and blurry. We don't know how large the red crosses and how wide the red stripes should be. Red, in particular, would hardly be visible on the dark trousers. There is something on the back of the guy in the middle, though. Besides, even if made in oil paint, dirt can easily cover up the markings. So it is no surprise if they are not visible in a blurry black-and-white photo. There is no contradiction to resolve.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Hektor » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:13 pm)

saiz wrote:
Hannover wrote:Would you please give us your proof for the alleged gas chambers, how the alleged 'gas chambers' worked, and show us the alleged human remains. And please,. do not just post a link and say 'here it is'. We want to read what you have to say.
Thanks, Hannover

Why should I repeat this when Pressac wrote an 500+ page book about this?
Read it, especially part 2, chapter 8 where Pressac presents 39 proofs for the existence of homicidal gas chambers.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0429.shtml

He was asking specifically for something in your own words. And I think most here will know Pressac books and the arguments. They ALL have been debunked already. Here is an example:
http://codoh.com/library/document/883
So the innuendo of reading something into documentation, which isn't really there doesn't really work.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:06 pm)

saiz wrote:
Hannover wrote:Would you please give us your proof for the alleged gas chambers, how the alleged 'gas chambers' worked, and show us the alleged human remains. And please,. do not just post a link and say 'here it is'. We want to read what you have to say.
Thanks, Hannover

Why should I repeat this when Pressac wrote an 500+ page book about this?
Read it, especially part 2, chapter 8 where Pressac presents 39 proofs for the existence of homicidal gas chambers.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0429.shtml


I think the demand for proof of gas chambers does not belong in this thread. I do not think that saiz claims that the photograph proves that people were gassed. He thinks that they were gassed for reasons not connected to the photograph and which do not belong on this thread. (That said, I do feel compelled to note that not even Pressac thinks his 39 criminal traces are proofs! Moreover his second book reduced the number of such traces considerably. Mattogno's Auschwitz: the case for sanity discusses these traces in great detail, but debating them is a matter for another thread.)

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Moderator » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:15 pm)

Sorry Friedrich, I disagree.
saiz:
You claimed in this thread that the corpses in the picture were gassing victims, you were challenged to essentially prove that. State your case for the alleged Auschwitz 'gas chambers' or leave the thread. And no, a link to the thoroughly discussed Pressac will not do. We want you to tell us. Here's an opportunity to refute Revisionists, I should think you would relish the opportunity to try.
You are welcomed to start a separate thread if that is better for you. Welcome to a forum where dodging is not permitted.
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:12 pm)

saiz wrote:
Kladderadatsch wrote:On the other hand, however, the anomaly must indeed be explained, convincingly, before anyone can be required to accept the two strands of evidence (testimony, picture) together as mutually confirming. They clearly contradict one another in fact, so while one or the other may be true, both cannot (though both can be false).

There is no contradiction. The picture is black-and-white and blurry. We don't know how large the red crosses and how wide the red stripes should be. Red, in particular, would hardly be visible on the dark trousers. There is something on the back of the guy in the middle, though. Besides, even if made in oil paint, dirt can easily cover up the markings. So it is no surprise if they are not visible in a blurry black-and-white photo. There is no contradiction to resolve.


The point of the red crosses is supposed to have been to make members of the sonderkommando immediately visually identifiable. If this is correct, they would not have been allowed to have been covered up by dirt. Moreover, if the cross were covered up by dirt the entire back of the man would appear dark (which it doesn't).

Screenshot-2.png


Tonal variation is visible in the back of the guy in the middle, but it's not clear that it's a cross - shadow appears to be in play, and the upper left portion of the cross seems to be simply a dark dot. The image of the man in question also shows anatomical peculiarity and poor detail (in contrast with other parts of the image). Considering also the peculiarities in the images of the corpses, it seems certain that this portion of the image has been retouched, so even if a cross were visible on his back it would prove little. This photograph, which shows considerably more detail, clearly shows the lack of crosses on the back of at least one sonderkommando member.

Screenshot-1.png


One of David Olere's drawings shows the cross on the back of a sonderkommando member, so this story dates back to 1945.

Screenshot-3.png


As Kladderadatsch has already stated, the issue is not decisive, except that it encapsulates the total incoherence and contradiction resulting from the thoroughly credulous and uncritical approach to witness testimony upon which the holocaust story is based.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby saiz » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:00 pm)

Moderator wrote:Sorry Friedrich, I disagree.
saiz:
You claimed in this thread that the corpses in the picture were gassing victims

Only because I was asked, and you urged me to answer it.
It does not belong in this topic. You as a moderator should know that.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Moderator » 4 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:53 pm)

saiz wrote:
Moderator wrote:saiz:
You claimed in this thread that the corpses in the picture were gassing victims

Only because I was asked, and you urged me to answer it.
It does not belong in this topic. You as a moderator should know that.

Sorry, you were challenged on your own conclusion made in this thread in regards to the alleged 'corpses' in the image under discussion, there is no dodging challenges here. What's it going to be? Your explanation of the alleged gas chambers, or leave the thread? Your call.
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Hektor » 4 years 11 months ago (Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:04 am)

friedrichjansson wrote:... This photograph, which shows considerably more detail, clearly shows the lack of crosses on the back of at least one sonderkommando member.

Image

...
Photograph? This looks like thorough surreal pencil or coal drawing to me. Not even a very good one. Are they really passing this as photography? I understand that there is a bigger higher resolution version of this. Perhaps anyone can place it?

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 11 months ago (Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:48 am)

Hektor wrote:]Photograph? This looks like thorough surreal pencil or coal drawing to me. Not even a very good one. Are they really passing this as photography? I understand that there is a bigger higher resolution version of this. Perhaps anyone can place it?


I took it from the documents of Mattogno's Auschwitz: Open Air Incinerations.

The uncropped versions are in Pressac's book (but with poor resolution):
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... e422.shtml

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Bob » 4 years 11 months ago (Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:22 am)

Carlo Mattogno in The ”Sonderkommandos” of Auschwitz

Image

TRANSCRIPTION:

[Column 1]
a) Geheime Staatspolizei Auschwitz
b) Stadtrevier Auschwitz
Pezola, Wachtm[eister] d[er] S[chutzpolizei] d.A. [?]
c) 7.9.44. 1915 Uhr Wilczek
[Column 2]
Fluchtmeldung.
Gegen 1400 Uhr ist heute aus dem K.L. Auschwitz II vom Sonderkommando (Krematorium) eine größere Anzahl Häftlinge ausgebrochen meist Juden. Die Flüchtigen wurden bereits zum Teil bei der sofort aufgenommenen Verfolgung erschossen. Die Suchaktion wird fortgesetzt.
Kennzeichen: geschoren, auf dem l[inken]. Unterarm eintätowierte No. Kleidung teils Civil mit roten Streifen. Weitere Fahndungsmaßnahmen u[nd]. Verständigung der untergeordneten Stellen bitte ich sofort durchzuführen.
Es sind nur noch 4 Häftlinge flüchtig.
[Column 3]
Verstärkte Streife zum [vom?] Bahnhofsgelände entsandt».

TRANSLATION:

[Column 1]
a) Secret State Police [i.e. Gestapo] Auschwitz
b) Auschwitz city hospital
Pezola, marshal of the security police d.A.[?]
c) 7.9.44. 19.15 hours Wilczek
[Column 2]
Escape report.
Towards 14.00 hours today a larger number of detainees belonging to the Sonderkommando (crematory), mostly Jews, escaped from K.L. Auschwitz. Part of the escapees were shot during the pursuit, which was commenced immediately. The search operation continues.
Dinstinguishing marks: cropped hair, number tattooed on the l[eft]. lower arm. Clothes partly civilian with red stripes. I request that you urgently notify subordinate agencies and carry out further search measures.
4 prisoners are still on free foot.
[Column 3]
Send a reinforced patrol to the station area».


(my emphasis)

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Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 4 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:41 pm)

Image

1.In this case it should be very easy to find this "burning pit"?
Between the krema V and the fence.
Let's try:)
2.If I accept the suggestion presented here by the author of this photo-montage I have a question in relation to the trees:they were like that in 1942 and they are identical today?
In this case they must be...100 years old?
Easy to check...

Jerzy


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