Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

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Hektor
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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Hektor » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:00 pm)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:Image

1.In this case it should be very easy to find this "burning pit"?
Between the krema V and the fence.
Let's try:)
2.If I accept the suggestion presented here by the author of this photo-montage I have a question in relation to the trees:they were like that in 1942 and they are identical today?
...


Nice find. One should indeed be able to check fact on this. And given the proximity there should even be traces on the fence from this.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby saiz » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:09 pm)

The author of that montage says: "charred bone fragments still litter the area in amongst the sub soil proving that corpses were burned in the pits".

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:27 pm)

saiz wrote:The author of that montage says: "charred bone fragments still litter the area in amongst the sub soil proving that corpses were burned in the pits".

The author "SAYS"? Anyone can say anything, proof is what is required. I see no "bones".

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby six gun » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:10 pm)

I was looking at a Jim Rizoli video on youtube. There was a section on film about the Nuremberg trials that had been on PBS.

The film had a clip from Dachau.
At 03:40 you get a brief view of two prisoners walking away from camera with crosses on the back of their jackets.
No idea what colour these are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzotUhadHdE

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Kladderadatsch » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:48 pm)

Great find, Six Gun.

There actually are at least three men with the X-cross on their jackets, as can be seen in these three snaps about half a second apart each:

Image
Image
Image

And it seems pretty clear that the scene is indeed Dachau, as can be confirmed at the furtherglory blog:

Image

All of which raises any number of interesting questions.

For example, if the stripes and crosses were indeed meant to indentify members of the so-called Sonderkommandos, what were SK members doing at Dachau? (No gassings in Dachau, right Dr. Broszat?)

Or could they have been transferred from other camps (e.g., Auschwitz) at the end of war? Maybe. But then, consider the image of those three men walking casually through the crowd of prisoners in the camp. If the stories of mass gassings--and thus, SK complicity in them--were true, every single person in that scene would have known it. (I think we can assume that prison gossip would have worked as well in the KZ system as anywhere else.) And yet, the three men appear entirely unconcerned moving through the crowd, and the crowd in turn appears to take no particular notice of them. As if to say, Collaborated with the Nazis to murder your fellow prisoners by the thousand? No problem! Just how likely is that? :roll:

No, those guys would have been marked men, and not just because of the crosses on their backs. And you can be sure they'd have done everything they could to get rid of those crosses as soon as the Nazis (and thus, their collaborator-protectors) were gone. They certainly wouldn't have been strolling around the prison yard wearing them.

Hmm, I wonder . . . Could it be that the reason no one is paying any particular attention to the SK men here is just that everyone knew who they were and what they did, and that there was nothing particularly sinister about the matter? That the famous Sonderkommandos really were nothing more and nothing less than the crematorium work detail, guys selected to do an unpleasant but necessary job if public health were to be maintained in the camps in the face of high mortality from disease? Undertakers, in other words, but not murderers--or even murderers' assistants. Just three guys with a job to do?

Fancy that.
Der grosse Kladderadatsch war da.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912 ?

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:55 pm)

Kladderadatsch wrote:No, those guys would have been marked men, and not just because of the crosses on their backs. And you can be sure they'd have done everything they could to get rid of those crosses as so

Fancy that.

Your argument makes perfect sense. or should, yet in the Holocaust mythology today the SK's have become saints. Whereas John Demjanjuk had to be hunted down 70 years after the events, despite the lack of any real evidence against him, Tomas Blatt, who (according to the orthodox story) on his own admission collaborated in the murder of hundreds of thousands, was not only not prosecuted but is treated as a hero, and presented as a witness against Demjanjuk.

Not criticising your entirely valid point. Just reflecting on this curious anomaly in the Holocaust religion.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby scythian » 6 years 1 month ago (Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:00 pm)

In case anybody is still researching this and doesn't already know, the Dresden, OH train wreck of 1912 is a dead end. Whoever edited the Ghost Adventures piece used unrelated train wreck photos (in addition to the holocaust photo in question along with a Hiroshima nuking victim for some odd reason). If you do a google image search for "old train wreck" you will eventually come across the two other photos they used and neither are the 1912 Ohio wreck. There are pictures out there of the Ohio wreck and there is snow on the ground (because it was Winter) and the trees don't have any leaves.

It would be interesting to find out (if at all possible but probably not) where the editor of the piece came across the photo and whether or not he deliberately inserted it (perhaps they had a personal agenda and maybe the Hiroshima victim photo was some sort of a 'clue' rather than a coincidence). I wonder where they obtained the image? It's always possible they made it themselves and doctored the existing holocaust photo and it's equally possible they didn't. There are already reasons to doubt the photo, this just adds more doubt IMO.

I came across this while browsing other forums and blogs discussing the image:

Image

http://www.wvculture.org/history/thisdayinwvhistory/0717.html

An attack launched on a mine during a miners strike on July 17, 1922 in Cliftonville, WV. More photos from the series (among unrelated others) can be found here:

http://www.miningartifacts.org/West-Virginia-Mines.html

This is not proof of anything nor is it proof that the holocaust photo (or Ghost Adventures photo) was of this mine attack. What it does have in common with it is the smoke, the trees, possibly the terrain, and obviously the clothing the men are wearing. I have not had any luck in finding additional photos from this attack (if they even exist), but if the Ghost Adventurers photo was labeled as "mine attack, July 17, 1922, Cliftonville, WV" it wouldn't look out of place. If some of those men were standing closer to the smoke/trees and somebody snapped a photo, it would look coincidentally similar the holocaust photo. So maybe this is the right track? Or maybe not, could just be another dead end.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 6 years 1 month ago (Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:27 pm)

"In case anybody is still researching this and doesn't already know, the Dresden, OH train wreck of 1912 is a dead end"

Correct.
But we know that the "famous" picture is a fake and if we could find the "donor" ,beyond any doubt that will be our huge victory.
It's worth trying because the reward will be sweet.


All the best
Jerzy

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby scythian » 6 years 1 month ago (Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:44 pm)

Do higher quality images of these sonderkommando photos even exist? I've come across higher resolution versions in faded and poor quality. These low resolution versions even appear to have more detail than most of what comes up in google image search:

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-sonderkommando-photos/

Even though we know the photo is likely fake, it would be interesting to see if the ground detail repeats similar to how it does in the Ghost Adventurers photo. The ground is too faded in the high res pics I've come across.

The photos are so poor you would think they would have been questioned earlier by more people. Your brain makes you see things that aren't there, like when you see figures in clouds. We were told these were bodies and some of us probably saw bodies. Others saw what looked like goofy bodies in anatomically imposible positions or maybe they didn't see bodies at all. It's not convincing and the 'sister' photo is too blurry. I know I remember reading the nude women photo from the series has been doctored (acknowledged by even the orthodox historians), so it shouldn't surprise anybody that these were doctored either.

In both photos of the "corpses" burning, the right side of the wall looks very uneven and artificial for something that is supposed to be brick. It appears the nearby gravel is the same as are the tree shapes. It might be the angle but the fence looks a little denser in one photo compared to the other. The corpse pile looks a little different but that doesn't mean anything I guess. Seems a little odd that these guys are standing right next to (if not on top) of a burning pile of bodies. The fence does look authentic though, so if the source photo isn't from Auschwitz they doctored it in there. Doctoring is likely one of the reasons for the poor quality of the photo rather than secretly/quickly taken photos on a 'hidden' camera.

It would definitely be nice to find the "donor" though. The Buchenwald photo debunking is more important IMO since it is such an iconic photo. I don't expect, say Wikipedia, to use Black Rabbit's work as a reliable source but that doesn't mean the photo isn't a dishonest cut and paste job. The "sonderkommando" photo is still a famous photo though and were it to be debunked it would mean the burning mass grave pits (which IIRC were claimed to be on the outside of the fence anyways) would have even less evidence except for that overhead photo (which just might be a cloud).

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 6 years 1 month ago (Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:27 pm)

"It would definitely be nice to find the "donor" though. The Buchenwald photo debunking is more important IMO since it is such an iconic photo."

From my point of view the"burning pits" is more important because of it's weight on holo-orbit.

Jerzy

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Werd » 3 years 6 months ago (Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:19 am)

I think the photo is indeed genuine and from Auschwitz.
http://hungarianskeptics.blogspot.hu/20 ... ed-by.html
However, to claim this is proof of gas chambers is absurd.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Hektor » 3 years 6 months ago (Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:22 am)

Werd wrote:I think the photo is indeed genuine and from Auschwitz.
http://hungarianskeptics.blogspot.hu/20 ... ed-by.html
However, to claim this is proof of gas chambers is absurd.

It won't, but I don't think that is an original photo.

There is another, less commonly shown photo, in that line. It makes the forgery even clearer.
Jerzy posted a smaller version of it:
Here are bigger ones
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Unfortunately the quality ain't much better. Perhaps someone is more lucky in finding good quality versions.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Hannover » 3 years 6 months ago (Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:38 am)

Werd wrote:I think the photo is indeed genuine and from Auschwitz.
http://hungarianskeptics.blogspot.hu/20 ... ed-by.html
However, to claim this is proof of gas chambers is absurd.
Seriously?

You accept the spaghetti people as real?
Image

You accept the incredible arms-of-rubber men as real?
Image

Your link states:
The location where the photo was taken can be easily identified, and its genuinity is supported by its match to the present view of the place. What's more, a British aerial photograph taken in August 1944 shows dense smoke rising from exactly the place where the photo was taken.
But smoke from what? The week's garbage being incinerated? Debris from area clean-up?
And why hasn't that area been excavated, verified, and shown to the public?

Those aerial photos were obviously altered. Here we see one where it claims 'Jews are being marched to the gas chambers'. Of course the big problem is that the cheesy drawn in "Jews" are marching on top of a roof!

Image
click to enlarge

This is just too easy.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby borjastick » 3 years 6 months ago (Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:20 am)

I don't for one moment accept that this photo is genuine inasmuch as it seems to have been retouched to within an inch of its life. But maybe, perhaps, possibly it is from Auschwitz. But so what?

So what if it shows bodies being cremated, so what I say. It proves absolutely nothing. As Hannover says where are these burning pits, the cremains, the proof in situ that this happened? It certainly doesn't prove gas chambers and six million or even one million dead.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Train crash site:Dresden,Ohio 1912? / sonderkommandos

Postby Werd » 3 years 6 months ago (Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:48 pm)

Sorry Hannover let me clarify. The spaghetti people were added to a real photograph. As to the ORIGINS of the real photograph, I say it was not a train accident in America, but a concentration camp in Poland. But the photo does not prove gas chambers in any way.


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