The Witness Conspiracy ? shyster Nessie taken to task

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Nessie.
Member
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Nessie. » 5 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:59 am)

borjastick wrote:Nessie said this:

Denier/revisionists need to evidence why they are right to dismiss so many thousands of witnesses as lying or mistaken when we know already witnesses get it wrong at times, but right on many occasions.


It seems to that many of the 'thousands of witnesses' he refers to actually don't bear witness to much more than being sent to camps where not a lot happened or was actually seen directly to have happened by the witness them self. Thus their witness value is slim. The witnesses I am concerned with are those who claim they saw mass shootings, gassings, or are absolutely certain the murder of six million jews happened.

It is these witness statements that are spurious precisely because they have not been proven, and because the weight attached to these statements is disproportionate. Thus the expectation of belief is high and yet without back up of genuine evidence of these claims.


What proof would you accept? How is the weight attached to witnesses disproportionate?

borjastick wrote:When it comes down to it there are nothing like hundreds let alone thousands of witness statements that are bizarre but the mad ones seem to have control of the message. What I ask is are these statements self generated or part of a holocaust marketing project?

The bottom line is the evidence isn't available to prove the claims and yet we are supposedly not allowed to ask for it.


Witnesses include the thousands who were in selections, saw relatives, neighbours and friends marched off to where there were gas chambers and despite extensive searching have never seen them again.

Then finding those who doubt the existence of gas chambers like Rassinier to be truthful, but he was never at a camp where there was a gas chamber. So how is he truthful? Is it just because he doubts the existence of gas chambers?

You have not evidenced a mass witness conspiracy to any sort of satisfactory state, yet you believe it and dismiss the much better evidenced narrative of the Holocaust from the academics.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2514
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby borjastick » 5 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:44 pm)

Witnesses include the thousands who were in selections, saw relatives, neighbours and friends marched off to where there were gas chambers and despite extensive searching have never seen them again.


The claims that you claim are at best shaky. You say above 'where the gas chambers were'. Yet none has been proven to be there at all. Witnesses are plentiful that they went into what they thought was a gas chamber and yet water came out of the shower heads.

Those who claim to have never seen their relatives again make the amazing leap of thought that if they didn't see them again they must have been gassed! Yet I remember seeing a film documentary with a witness statement that she and her sister were separated upon arrival at Auschwitz. She said they were all showered (with water) then had their hair chopped off and given a uniform. A short time later hundreds of these women were lined up in the yard whereupon she couldn't have recognised her sister under any circumstances. They all looked the same and completely different from an hour earlier when they had arrived.

The claimed gas chambers have never been found to be anything more than morgues and converted air raid shelters.

As far as the disproportionate weight afforded to the witness statements goes it is evidenced by the way their filmed and written statements are easily available and how these statements are accepted as proof of the six million dead yet they don't say anything of the sort. The problem is the casual observer/newcomer to the holocaust story buys into this discourse about the suffering of being transported to a labour camp, which they survived, or how they had to leave Germany pre war, or never saw relatives again even though they had a fairly normal war experience. How often do we come up against people who have bought into the six million-gas chamber story simply because they saw the film of Buchenwald or Belsen where we know there were NO gas chambers. Death was caused by typhus and other privations of war.

The stories are plentiful but the hard evidence simply doesn't back them up.

The proof we all want is hard evidence and not weepy emotional nonsense from flaky survivors. Thus far this is very much lacking and when Rudolf and Leuchter produce scientific proof that the claimed gas chambers couldn't possibly have been used as such we get the pathetic sight of the holocaust management team slagging off their credentials and moaning that they lack academic credibility.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

Bob
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:49 am

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Bob » 5 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:36 pm)

Nessie wrote:Witnesses include the thousands who were in selections, saw relatives, neighbours and friends marched off to where there were gas chambers and despite extensive searching have never seen them again.


Evidence an example when somebody allegedly exhaustively searched to find people who were seen to march off " where there were gas chambers" (of course silly example of "evidence"). As is known, people were/are told such peoples were gassed, hence I am very curious to see your alleged case in which somebody exhaustively searched to find someone claimed to be gassed.

Nessie wrote:Then finding those who doubt the existence of gas chambers like Rassinier to be truthful, but he was never at a camp where there was a gas chamber. So how is he truthful? Is it just because he doubts the existence of gas chambers?


Wrong, it was claimed in the past that Buchenwald had gas chambers (hence Nessie does not find these testimonies credible, good). Despite being a prisoner in Germans camps (including Buchenwald), he was against such accusations, that makes him truthful as he did not misuse his fate for purpose of revenge which would have been not justifiable, but at least understandable. Use logic next time.

Nessie wrote:You have not evidenced a mass witness conspiracy to any sort of satisfactory state, yet you believe it and dismiss the much better evidenced narrative of the Holocaust from the academics.


Mass witness conspiracy? Just a propaganda from small number of people which turned others to believe there was an extermination and ordinary things they experienced had some connection with this story resulting in so called "thousands of witnesses" leaving aside the power of hearsay and historical background - it was a war, chaos, less chance to verify things etc. Do not make things complicated when they are not complicated at all.

How complicated exactly was a "mass conspiracy" which made probably millions of people believe that The Great Wall of China is the only man-made object visible from space? If you are at least average intelligent, is not too hard to understand how such myths, urban legends etc. can be easily created and how they find its way to the minds of people who believe them.

much better evidenced narrative of the Holocaust from the academics


Another typical case of "much better evidence" we are left in dark about, just usual vague assertion. The only thing we can derive form this statement is Nessie´s admission, that there is evidenced narrative against holocaust, albeit not as good.

From the academics? Just a case of fallacy of appeal to authority leaving aside that there are of course academics among revisionists.

User avatar
Henry.
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:38 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Henry. » 5 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:45 am)

Nessie. wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them

"When, in September 1943, Goebbels was informed that the German army had to withdraw from the Katyn area, he wrote a prediction in his diary. His entry for 29 September 1943 reads: "Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us". - Wiki Katyn Massacre

It is further corroborated by the digs at TII by the Lukaszkiewicz and Caroline Sturdy Colls teams which found an mix of bone, ash and sand and no sign of mass graves as originally described. ........

No, No, No, Nessie!!!

That's not what Goebbels wrote or intended his entry to mean. You (or some hasbarat) have removed the definite article "the" and changed the crucial pronoun "them" to "it" so to create the meaning that you give to it.

Taken from my copy of Goebbels' Diaries (p. 395) here is the original entry with the definite article, proper quotation marks, and correct pronoun restored and highlighted.

Goebbels wrote....
Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon "find" that we shot the 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame them on us


Nessie's version...
Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us

As we see Nessie's post is a hoax within the Hoax...

User avatar
Nessie.
Member
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Nessie. » 5 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:42 am)

Henry. wrote:
Nessie. wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them

"When, in September 1943, Goebbels was informed that the German army had to withdraw from the Katyn area, he wrote a prediction in his diary. His entry for 29 September 1943 reads: "Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us". - Wiki Katyn Massacre

It is further corroborated by the digs at TII by the Lukaszkiewicz and Caroline Sturdy Colls teams which found an mix of bone, ash and sand and no sign of mass graves as originally described. ........

No, No, No, Nessie!!!

That's not what Goebbels wrote or intended his entry to mean. You (or some hasbarat) have removed the definite article "the" and changed the crucial pronoun "them" to "it" so to create the meaning that you give to it.

Taken from my copy of Goebbels' Diaries (p. 395) here is the original entry with the definite article, proper quotation marks, and correct pronoun restored and highlighted.

Goebbels wrote....
Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon "find" that we shot the 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame them on us


Nessie's version...
Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us

As we see Nessie's post is a hoax within the Hoax...


What is the difference in meaning between the translations? They read the same to me that Goebbels is concerned that the Soviets will find mass graves and blame the Nazis for them.

User avatar
Henry.
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:38 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Henry. » 5 years 2 months ago (Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:09 pm)

Nessie. wrote: What is the difference in meaning between the translations? They read the same to me that Goebbels is concerned that the Soviets will find mass graves and blame the Nazis for them.

No in your original post you claimed that Goebbels was concerned that the Soviets would find Nazi mass graves

See...
Nessie. wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them

Your abuse of Goebbels' diary entry allowed you to spin a deceit but now it's been exposed you pretend you posted something different.

Are you looking to start up your magic roundabout again?

I won't be climbing aboard to waste countless hours going round in circles.

User avatar
Nessie.
Member
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Nessie. » 5 years 2 months ago (Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:31 pm)

Henry. wrote:
Nessie. wrote: What is the difference in meaning between the translations? They read the same to me that Goebbels is concerned that the Soviets will find mass graves and blame the Nazis for them.

No in your original post you claimed that Goebbels was concerned that the Soviets would find Nazi mass graves

See...
Nessie. wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them

Your abuse of Goebbels' diary entry allowed you to spin a deceit but now it's been exposed you pretend you posted something different.

Are you looking to start up your magic roundabout again?

I won't be climbing aboard to waste countless hours going round in circles.


I asked you to explain the difference. All you have done is repeat what you said before.

Bob
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:49 am

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby Bob » 5 years 2 months ago (Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:41 am)

Nessie wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them


Goebbels´entry of September 29, 1943:[1]

"Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon "find" that we shot the 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame them on us".

Hence I am also still waiting to see where exactly Goebbels corroborated something about "Nazi mass graves [which] would present problems to them" as Nessie claims. There is no such information as everybody can read.

[1]Louis P. Lochner (ed.), The Goebbels Diaries, Hamish Hamilton, London, 1948, p. 395.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: The Witness Conspiracy.

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:54 am)

Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:That is corroborated by Goebbels recognising how Katyn was being used against the Nazis and so Nazi mass graves would present problems to them


Goebbels´entry of September 29, 1943:[1]

"Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon "find" that we shot the 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame them on us".

Hence I am also still waiting to see where exactly Goebbels corroborated something about "Nazi mass graves [which] would present problems to them" as Nessie claims. There is no such information as everybody can read.

[1]Louis P. Lochner (ed.), The Goebbels Diaries, Hamish Hamilton, London, 1948, p. 395.


Goebbels' fear was legitimate. The interesting question is: Why didn't the Soviets open mass graves in order to revenge for the Katyn & Vinnitsa affronts? No doubt Uncle Joe was furious when Hitler exposed his victims. Knowing Stalin's personality, it's hard to believe that Uncle Joe wouldn't have exposed Nazi mass graves if he had been able to do it. But he didn't. He only blamed the Nazis for Katyn and other alleged crimes for which he was unable to provide any physical evidence. When the Nazis exposed Stalin's victims at Katyn, Uncle Joe only reacted by claiming that the Nazis were exhuming and incinerating a greater number of corpses at Treblinka, so that his Katyn victims would look insignificant. The words of a murderer blaming his crimes on others and trying to make his crimes look insignificant with bigger claims, along with a few 'confessions' extorted by well-known torturers and liars, is that all what we'll ever get to prove the fantastic Holo-allegations about the invisible Nazi mass graves? I'm afraid we will.

The Soviet claim that the Nazis successfully obliterated all the traces of their crimes was maybe crebible in the 1940. But it's completely laughable today. Or it should be so.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
NLH
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:28 pm
Location: England, UK

Re: The Witness Conspiracy ? shyster Nessie taken to task

Postby NLH » 4 years 5 months ago (Sat May 23, 2015 1:58 am)

borjastick wrote:Szende's book was recalled and destroyed, when later the gas chamber version was chosen.


But I can get this on Amazon, published 2010.

Another thread on this book: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7154
"Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."
- Kitty Hart-Moxon, Jewish Holocaust Survivor.

June 1998 testimony, USC Shoah Foundation, Visual History Archive.
Part 2 - YouTube - 1:21:42

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9892
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: The Witness Conspiracy ? shyster Nessie taken to task

Postby Hannover » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:15 pm)

A classic case of someone who has been taken to the woodshed by this forum.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Atigun
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:13 am

Re: The Witness Conspiracy ? shyster Nessie taken to task

Postby Atigun » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:37 pm)

Hannover wrote:A classic case of someone who has been taken to the woodshed by this forum.


- Hannover

But...but...but Hannover, isn't that a fallacy of some kind?


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 5 guests