Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

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Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby phdnm » 6 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:45 am)

After Genocide, Holocaust, Shoah ... memoricide! What an imagination ...

Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Victims, formerly identified as Jews, now referred to as ‘peaceful citizens and Soviet prisoners of war’

The Simon Wiesenthal Center’s European office joined the Russian Holocaust Center of Moscow and Verbe et Lumiere on Monday in criticizing authorities for “revisionist history” in the case of the Holocaust-era mass killings at Babi Yar in Ukraine.

Last year, authorities replaced a plaque identifying most of the tens of thousands of victims of the murders as Jews with one that replaces all such references with an epitaph to “the peaceful citizens of Rostov-on-the-Don and Soviet prisoners of war.”

Shimon Samuels, the Wiesenthal Center’s director of international relations, said at a conference that the change of the plaque was “memoricide,” adding that it “twice murders the victim, in both life and in posterity.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-gro ... -babi-yar/

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby ganglere » 6 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:18 pm)

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen!

The testimonies regarding the massacres at Babij Yar reached the allies during the fall of 1941.
Totally it has been claimed that there where hundreds of thousands of victims. The testimonies regarding how this was supposed to have happened, differs considerably, both with regards to numbers, time, place, means of execution et.cetera. Several testimonies talk about large numbers of children and youngsters being killed.

However, soviet documents reports that 80% of Kievs jews where evacuated before the arrival of the german troops, and that mainly the elderly remained.

Kievs jewish population before the invasion was 170 000 (Encyklopaedia Judaica)
That would leave a remainder of 34 000.

According to Einsatzgruppe report No. 106 October 7. 1941, produced as evidence at the Nuremberg trials, the remaining jews of Kiev is claimed to be 300 000.


On the 16th of November 1941 Jewish Telegraph Agency reports the following: Somewhere in Europe [...]from an unimpeachable source, that 52 000 men, women and children [...] ruthlessly and systematically have been murdered[...] according to the coldblooded nazi policy of extermination.

And remember, the Wannsee conference was not until 20th of January 1942, where, according to mythology the decision was taken.

Basically every concievable method of murder has been claimed, from clubbing to death, to gaswagons and drowning in the Dniepr.

Hereafter the (several?) hundreds of thousands was buried, some time later (August -43) been excavated, with bulldozers (did the germans even have those?) and burned with gasoline (no fuel shortage there). Source: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust.

And this has successfully been carried out, without disturbing the ravine in any notable way, according to available aerial photos.

Draw your own conclusions.

Humbly yours,

Ganglere

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Mkk » 6 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:46 pm)

Totally it has been claimed that there where hundreds of thousands of victims

Babi Yar's death toll is put at 33,700 (after the german report of the Einzatgruppen) but there are many claims to something higher.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby borjastick » 6 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:05 pm)

So here you have it: a crime so huge and barbaric as claimed by the jewish and yet one that cannot be proven by anyone today or indeed in the past 60 yrs. Aerial photos that once again show nothing untoward happening (sounds like Auschwitz again) together with no remains or bones or anything from an alleged crime of monumental proportions.

And to top it off is a death count claim that has a difference of some 1000%, even if it happened at all.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Inquisitor » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:50 am)

borjastick wrote:So here you have it: a crime so huge and barbaric as claimed by the jewish and yet one that cannot be proven by anyone today or indeed in the past 60 yrs. Aerial photos that once again show nothing untoward happening (sounds like Auschwitz again) together with no remains or bones or anything from an alleged crime of monumental proportions.

And to top it off is a death count claim that has a difference of some 1000%, even if it happened at all.


Nonsense...you're guilty of memoricide!!! :roll: :wink:

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby MorrisT » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:54 am)

Why did the Einsatzgruppen report the death toll of 33,700 in the first place, and why was the order given by Himmler to exume/burn the bodies?


Were the Nazi's bored?
Last edited by MorrisT on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Hannover » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:51 pm)

MorrisT wrote:Why did the Einsatzgruppen report the death toll of 33,700 in the first place, and why was the order given by Himmler to resume/burn the bodies?


Were the Nazi's bored?

What report? What order? Please show us originals of all you have claimed.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:33 pm)

Good point Hannover. I have checked through that laugh a minute, catalogue of total truth that is Richard Rhodes' Masters of Death, and found that on page 178 a reference to a report by sonderkommando 4a with help of police regiments executed 33,771 jews.

No actual proof of course but the naive might just take this claim as sufficient. The problem amongst many in this book, is the claim that jews at Babi Yar were 'sardine packed' while executed. This was done by getting each jew to lie down on the corspe of a just shot jew and wait to be shot through the neck with a machine gun.

Pity that as up to that point I had believed everything Mr Rhodes had told me...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Hannover » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:38 pm)

borjastick wrote:Good point Hannover. I have checked through that laugh a minute, catalogue of total truth that is Richard Rhodes' Masters of Death, and found that on page 178 a reference to a report by sonderkommando 4a with help of police regiments executed 33,771 jews.

No actual proof of course but the naive might just take this claim as sufficient. The problem amongst many in this book, is the claim that jews at Babi Yar were 'sardine packed' while executed. This was done by getting each jew to lie down on the corspe of a just shot jew and wait to be shot through the neck with a machine gun.

Pity that as up to that point I had believed everything Mr Rhodes had told me...

And of course that 'report' is not shown. Nor do aerial photos of the alleged time of activity show anything remotely associated with the alleged mass executions and mass burials of 33,771 Jews.

This is really too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Lohengrin » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:23 pm)

Let's simply do the math, folks:

33,771 Jews, each of them had to lie down "sardine packed" on the corpse that was shot before. Let's be kind to the Holohoaxers and suppose that the time to kill a Jew Sardinewise was only 1 (one) minute.

Okay, that was 33,771 minutes, = 563 hours, = 23.5 days non-stop.

But, ultimo September, there were not more than 10 hours daylight, so this whole "operation Babi Yar" must had a duration of at least 56 days (nearly 2 months).

The JHV (Jewish Holocaust-Version) however is telling us, that those "33,771" Jews were killed by the evil Nazi's in 2 (two) days !!! :bootyshake:

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:54 am)

Rhodes 001.jpg


Here are the relevant pages from the book. Apparently or not so apparently if you were looking from overhead, they were shooting people every tuesday and friday for a year! On every other day of the week the troops were street cleaning, sorting out their email accounts and doing Bob A Job for local pensioners! Plus you will notice that a concentration camp was built right next to the ravine. Any comments?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Toshiro » 6 years 10 months ago (Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:05 am)

The source for the 33,771 is "OPERATIONAL SITUATION REPORT USSR No.101", supposedly stored in the National Archives (NARA) in Washington:

Berlin, October 2, 1941

Chief of the Security Police and the Security Service

48 copies

-------------

(36th copy)

OPERATIONAL SITUATION REPORT USSR No.101

Einsatzgruppe C
Location: Kiev

Sonderkommando 4a in collaboration with Einsatzgruppe HQ and two Kommandos of police regiment South, executed 33,771 Jews in Kiev on September 29 and 30, 1941.

Einsatzgruppe D
Location: Nikolayev

The Kommandos continued the liberation of the area from Jews and Communist elements. In the period covered by the report, the towns of Nikolayev and Kherson in particular were freed of Jews. Remaining officials there were appropriately treated. From September 16 to 30, 22,467 Jews and Communists were executed. Total number 35,782. Investigations again show that the high Communist officials everywhere have fled to safety. On the whole, leading partisans or leaders of sabotage detachments have been seized.


Also relevant is Paul Blobel's affidavit:
I think that the figure of 33, 771 mentioned to me as the number of persons executed in Kiev is too high. In my opinion not more than half of the mentioned figures were shot.
Last edited by Toshiro on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby ganglere » 6 years 10 months ago (Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 am)

Greetings ladies and gentlemen!

The problem with the reports in various form about the activities of the Einzatskommandos, is, that when adding them up, we arrive at a total of about 2,2 millions killed jews, which is no mean feat, considering there were never more than 1,6 million of them in this area in the first place.

I may have a simplistic view on matters here, but when documents don’t match reality, they are, to say the least, fraudulent.

According to the statement of SS-Obersturmbahnführer Haensch, commanding officer of a Sonderkommando in group C during 7 weeks, reported that his kommando executed around sixty people during this period, but never any jew, simply for the reason of being a jew.

Naturally, to establish exactly how many, and who those where, that were allegedly executed, is to do what was done at Katyn, namely excavate the area.

To the best of my knowledge, this has never been done, perhaps because this had already been established as “judicial notice” and therefore, rendering any investigation into the matter superfluous.

Humbly yours,
Ganglere

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby MorrisT » 6 years 10 months ago (Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:46 am)

Lohengrin,

According to the HEART website, its the German situation report that makes the 2-day claim.



According to the "Operations Situation Report of Einsatzgruppe C" of 7 October 1941, the Germans claimed that 33,771 Jews had been shot in Kiev on the 29 and 30 September 1941.

Were the Germans lying?

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Re: Jewish groups protest ‘revisionist plaque’ at Babi Yar

Postby Steven Willow » 6 years 10 months ago (Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:27 am)

ganglere wrote:Greetings ladies and gentlemen!

The problem with the reports in various form about the activities of the Einzatskommandos, is, that when adding them up, we arrive at a total of about 2,2 millions killed jews, which is no mean feat, considering there were never more than 1,6 million of them in this area in the first place.

I may have a simplistic view on matters here, but when documents don’t match reality, they are, to say the least, fraudulent.

According to the statement of SS-Obersturmbahnführer Haensch, commanding officer of a Sonderkommando in group C during 7 weeks, reported that his kommando executed around sixty people during this period, but never any jew, simply for the reason of being a jew.

Naturally, to establish exactly how many, and who those where, that were allegedly executed, is to do what was done at Katyn, namely excavate the area.

To the best of my knowledge, this has never been done, perhaps because this had already been established as “judicial notice” and therefore, rendering any investigation into the matter superfluous.

Humbly yours,
Ganglere


Ganglere, you are spot on that the Operational Situation Reports are bogus. But these fraudulent reports only serve to prove how powerful and insidious the jew Hoaxters were. These Hoaxters managed to convince (via torture, no doubt) the Germans who handled these reports to testify that these documents were absolutely authentic. The OSRs are supposedly stored in the German National Archives in Koblenze. However, only Hoaxters are allowed to view the so called originals. The rest of us can only view "copies."


The authenticity of the Einsatzgruppen reports has never been seriously challenged. The original copies of the reports were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched by the U.S. Army. A complete set of those reports were introduced at the trial of 23 members of the Einsatzgruppen. At this trial witnesses who had created the reports and who had received them testified. All stated that the reports were authentic and accurate. Currently the originals of the reports are held by the German archives at Coblentz where they are available to scholars and historians for research. The U.S. National Archives, Yad Vashem, and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum have complete sets of copies of the original documents.

At one point in the Einsatzgruppen Trial, for example, Otto Ohlendorf, the commander of Einsatzgruppe D was asked about a report (document L-180) created by Stahlecker the commander of Einsatzgruppe A. He answered: "I have read the report of Stahlecker concerning Einsatzgruppe A, in which Stahlecker asserts that his group killed 135,000 Jews and Communists in the first four months of the program. I know Stahlecker personally, and I am of the opinion that the document is authentic."

One of the most important witnesses at the Einsatzgruppen trials was Kurt Lindow who testified on July 21, 1947. Lindow was the person responsible for receiving the reports as they came in and distributed them. As he testified:

I read most of the reports and passed them on to Dr. Knoblach, Inspector of the Criminal Police, who compiled them at first. The compilation was published daily under the title 'Operational Situation Reports - U.S.S.R.' These reports were stenciled and I corrected them. Afterwards they were mimeographed and distributed. The originals of the reports which were sent to the Reich Security Main Office [RHSA] were mostly signed by the commander of the Einsatzgruppe or his deputy. . . . . . .

On the strength of my positions as deputy chief and later on chief of subdepartment IV A 1, I consider myself a competent witness, able to confirm that the 'Operational Situation Reports -- U.S.S.R." which was published by the chief of security police and the security service under file marked IV A 1 were compiled entirely from the original reports of the Einsatzgruppen reaching my subdepartment by wireless or by letter.

NMT Vol. IV, pp. 99-100.

In his testimony Lindow also verified that the reports in evidence were authentic and that the initials on the reports were those of his superiors. After his testimony the defendants in the Einsatzgruppen trial stipulated to the authenticity of the reports.

The reports have also been tested in other courts as well and found to be authentic. The Jaeger Report, for example, covers the murders committed Einsatzkommando 3 of Einsatzgruppe A in Lithuania. It was recently used in the denaturalization trial of Jonas Stelmokas in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in 1995. Stelmokas was accused of being an officer in a Lithuanian militia unit cooperating with Einsatzgruppen A. After the challenges to the report by the defense were considered, the Jaeger Report was found to be authentic and reliable both by the trial court and an appellate court which considered an appeal of the case. U.S. v. Stelmokas 100 F.3rd 302 (3rd. Cir.; 1996)


We should ignore any testimony by the Germans affirming the authenticity of reports corroberating astronomical death tolls in these so called genocidal mass shootings. The investigations were part of victors justice, and it was so obvious that witnesses were tortured and their families threatened that we can safely assume that nothing that Hoaxters boast about the Einsatzgruppen or Babi Yar is true.


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