New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
friedrich braun
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:40 am

New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby friedrich braun » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:03 pm)

Several points raise red flags, however. Although they've turned the entire place upside down, they're unable to locate the gaz chambers (but lack of physical evidence doesn't keep them from affirming their existence, why?). Secondly, they believe that over 250 000 Jews were killed in this camp, but the article doesn't tell the reader how they came up with this number nor the method of the killings (they haven't found the gaz chambers).

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7655 ... bibor.html
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."

"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"

C.G. Jung

Mkk
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:00 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Mkk » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:38 pm)

This has been posted before. Unless they give us some exact numbers (and proof to back it up) of how much displaced soil and ash there is, the more than 250,000 claim is just that: a claim.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

Fergi
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Fergi » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:25 pm)

friedrich braun

...they believe that over 250 000 Jews were killed in this camp, but the article doesn't tell the reader how they came up with this number...


Yes they do. From the article:

Over five years of excavations, Haimi has been able to remap the camp and has unearthed thousands of items. He hasn't found anything about his family, but amid the teeth, bone shards and ashes through which he has sifted, he has recovered jewelry, keys and coins that have helped identify some of Sobibor's victims.

The heavy concentration of ashes led him to estimate that far more than 250,000 Jews were actually killed at Sobibor.


They came up with the number from excavations they did and the subsequent sifting through of the heavy concentration of ashes from the graves, in which they've found teeth and bone shards.

It also appears that Roberto Muehlenkamp has proven that the ash mound memorial is comprised of human remians:

The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence… is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash… proving that the mound of ash at the Sobibor memorial is actually comprised of human ash… will be answered in an article that I shall try to get published in SKEPTIC magazine


http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=16114


The graves have also been verified via Ground Penetrating Radar:

http://www.hartford.edu/greenberg/events/sobibor.asp

After learning about the work with geophysical techniques on Israeli archeological sites conducted by Dr. Richard Freund, director of the Maurice Greenberg Center for Judaic Studies at the University of Hartford, Haimi invited the world-renowned archeologist to join the Sobibor project.

Visiting the site for just one week in July, Freund and his used ground-penetrating radar and electro-magnetic technology to make some significant discoveries that will help create the most accurate post-war map of a site deliberately hidden from view by the Nazis.

...

Freund has been using the geophysical technology for a decade, and is one of a small number of archeologists throughout the world to take advantage of its precision and speed to map sub-surfaces.

...

Findings from the summer investigation have been plotted on a digital map by Dr. Philip Reeder, a geographer at the University of South Florida. The new map will be used by Haimi to plan follow-up excavations.

...

Now we can know exactly how to get in, where to get in, what’s there or if there’s nothing there, says Freund. “Archeologists can spend years spinning their wheels, because they start in a corner and there’s nothing there, and they dig down and there’s nothing there. So this technology is really a godsend for archeology.


So it's pretty obvious that the graves have been found using GPR and the map created by Freund and Reeder is being used by Hami.

Unless Muehlenkamp, Freund, Reeder and Hami are lying frauds like Colls???

friedrich braun
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:40 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby friedrich braun » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:38 pm)

They came up with the number from excavations they did and the subsequent sifting through of the heavy concentration of ashes from the graves, in which they've found teeth and bone shards.

That's fine, I understand they found a lot of material objects. I just don't see how they came up with that number. Why not 100 000 or 20 000? The article does an inadequate job of explaining how they came up with that number.
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."



"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"



C.G. Jung

User avatar
Callahan
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:40 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Callahan » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:15 pm)

Unless I've misinterpreted something, the only evidence of such an immense death toll is claims of huge amounts of ash. Forgive me for having such high expectations after seeing every other Holocaust claim brutally demolished, but without a video record of the entire excavation, we're pretty much taking the word of these individuals as the sole evidence of their claims (regarding ash). I'm still new to all of this, but I don't understand why there would be thousands of items of jewelry and other valuables mixed in with the ash if the alleged gassings were performed after the victims had undressed or, at least, were stripped of their possessions. If the Nazis were crafty enough to assign the task of removing gold teeth, you'd think they'd check pockets for jewelry, keys and other items.

The Warden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: 'Murica!

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby The Warden » 8 years 9 months ago (Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:46 pm)

Once again, even if one is to believe the amount of ash being claimed... Ash proves cremation, not murder.
People die in war zones, especially back when prisoners were not afforded the same comforts of today's general rules, even though the Germans offered more than ample services to the people they allegedly wanted killed upon arrival.

I'm tired of hearing about how every dead body on the European continent is a victim of the Holocaust.
There's a campsite north of my location which has tons of ash. I suppose in 50 years, Jews will be claiming a Holocaust happened there too. All they need is to find one lost earring and a few survivors.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

Fergi
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Fergi » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:24 am)

The Warden

Ash proves cremation, not murder.


No it doesn't.

Ash proves that something was burned.

Burnt bones prove cremation.

I've seen no evidence of murder or cremation or graves.

The Warden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: 'Murica!

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby The Warden » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:28 am)

By denying cremations, you put yourself in a position to prove what the ashes truly are. If you say they're trash, the onus then rests on you to prove so. This is why it's best to leave the lack of evidence for murder in the Zionists' hands, instead of assuming the responsibility of proving what the ashes are when they respond with "If they aren't cremation remains, then what are they?"

There's simply no reason to deny cremations. No one in their right mind without an agenda would deny people died at the camps.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

Fergi
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Fergi » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:31 pm)

The Warden

By denying cremations, you put yourself in a position to prove what the ashes truly are.


No it doesn't.

(BTW, what ashes?)


The Warden

If you say they're trash, the onus then rests on you to prove so.


No it doesn't.

(BTW, who said anything about trash?)


The Warden

This is why it's best to leave the lack of evidence for murder in the Zionists' hands, instead of assuming the responsibility of proving what the ashes are when they respond with "If they aren't cremation remains, then what are they?"


Nonsense.

(BTW, what ashes?)


The Warden

There's simply no reason to deny cremations. No one in their right mind without an agenda would deny people died at the camps.


Nonsense.

Warden, can you prove that one body was cremated at Sobibor?

Can you prove the existence of one ounce of human ash. (Real human "ash" from the burning of human flesh - not bone fragments.)

Can you prove the existence of one bone fragment in a grave at Sobibor?

Can you prove the existence of one grave at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person was murdered at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person died at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person was buried at Sobibor?

Warden, is the alleged "ash" that is claimed to have been found at Sobibor real ash (The grayish-white to black powdery residue left when something is burned), or actual bone fragments that are disingenuously referred to by the holohoaxers as "ashes?"

Fergi
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Fergi » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:07 pm)

Cloud

Fergi, can you prove that you're anyone other than Greg Gerdes?



What will you accept as proof?

User avatar
Moderator2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:32 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Moderator2 » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:19 pm)

Cloud wrote:Fergi, can you prove that you're anyone other than Greg Gerdes?

We don’t need to be a rocket scientist to put a = sign between Greg Gerdes and Fergi. So au revoir Fergi.

User avatar
Callahan
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:40 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Callahan » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:04 pm)

Moderator2 wrote:
Cloud wrote:Fergi, can you prove that you're anyone other than Greg Gerdes?

We don’t need to be a rocket scientist to put a = sign between Greg Gerdes and Fergi. So au revoir Fergi.

I thought it was against forum rules to call someone out by their real name... And why is Fergi being banned? I didn't really see anything other than reasonable arguments presented here.

User avatar
Moderator2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:32 am

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Moderator2 » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:51 pm)

Callahan wrote:I thought it was against forum rules to call someone out by their real name... And why is Fergi being banned? I didn't really see anything other than reasonable arguments presented here.

A hint, search the board for Greg Gerdes (a user name) which is permanently banned on this forum and read the posts.

The Warden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: 'Murica!

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby The Warden » 8 years 9 months ago (Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:00 pm)

Fergi wrote:(BTW, what ashes?)


The ashes being used for the sake of argument in this thread.

Fergi wrote:(BTW, who said anything about trash?)


I did. Of course, it was only an example and far from the point being made that by denying cremations, it would be a lingering question put forth.


Fergi wrote:Warden, can you prove that one body was cremated at Sobibor?

Can you prove the existence of one ounce of human ash. (Real human "ash" from the burning of human flesh - not bone fragments.)

Can you prove the existence of one bone fragment in a grave at Sobibor?

Can you prove the existence of one grave at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person was murdered at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person died at Sobibor?

Can you prove that one person was buried at Sobibor?


I don't need to due to the reasoning you attempted to refute.
I'll concede cremations all day long because the amounts and intent of murder will never be proven. If you choose to complicate matters for your argument, so be it.

Fergi wrote:Warden, is the alleged "ash" that is claimed to have been found at Sobibor real ash (The grayish-white to black powdery residue left when something is burned), or actual bone fragments that are disingenuously referred to by the holohoaxers as "ashes?"


Hardly matters under my logic.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

User avatar
Balsamo
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:44 pm

Re: New excavations at Sobibor prove the Holocaust?

Postby Balsamo » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:27 pm)

The Warden wrote:Once again, even if one is to believe the amount of ash being claimed... Ash proves cremation, not murder.
People die in war zones, especially back when prisoners were not afforded the same comforts of today's general rules, even though the Germans offered more than ample services to the people they allegedly wanted killed upon arrival.

I'm tired of hearing about how every dead body on the European continent is a victim of the Holocaust.
There's a campsite north of my location which has tons of ash. I suppose in 50 years, Jews will be claiming a Holocaust
happened there too. All they need is to find one lost earring and a few survivors.


Ashes proves cremations, which proves that people died there.
Wasn't Sobibor supposed to be a mere transit for the legitimate transfer of jewish populations to their new homes (euh camps or employement ? or whatever...) ? Weren't they supposed to be just deloused, washed, given food and drinks, before their journey to the east?
Maybe there is something for a new theory here : Sobibor was a temporary cimetary for the poor victims of Allied bombing hit during their trip. Of course they were given a descent and religious funeral there. Their goods were collected to be resent to their families as soon as possible.

I was not aware that Sobibor was in any war zones during its existence, nor that many regular prisonners were sent there...except some russians...
Must be my mistake ;)


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EtienneSC and 7 guests