Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

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Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Callahan » 8 years 2 months ago (Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:12 pm)

While the speeches of Himmler at Posen have been addressed at this forum and are unlikely to have referred to an 'extermination plan', Himmler's alleged speeches at Sonthofen are more explicit (taken from Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_spee ... r_speeches
Statements from five further secret speeches by Himmler confirm the sentiment he expressed in Posen on the "final solution to the Jewish question". On December 16, 1943, he said to Kriegsmarine commanders:[25]

"[...] Thus I have basically given the order to also kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars. I would be a weakling and a criminal to our descendants if I allowed the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans we have liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity to grow up."

A handwritten memo from Himmler's speech on January 26, 1944 in Posen to Generals of fighting troops reads:[25]

"Largest stabilisation in the G.G. since the solution to the Jewish question. – Race war. Total solution. Not allowing avengers to rise against our children."

On May 5, 1944, Himmler explained to Generals in Sonthofen that perseverance in the bombing war has only been possible because the Jews in Germany have been discarded.[26]

"The Jewish question has been solved within Germany itself and in general within the countries occupied by Germany. [...] You can understand how difficult it was for me to carry out this military order which I was given and which I implemented out of a sense of obedience and absolute conviction. If you say: 'we can understand as far as the men are concerned but not about the children', then I must remind you of what I said at the beginning. [...] In my view, we as Germans, however deeply we may feel in our hearts, are not entitled to allow a generation of avengers filled with hatred to grow up with whom our children and grandchildren will have to deal because we, too weak and cowardly, left it to them."

Applause can be heard on a recording of another speech given to Generals in Sonthofen on May 24, 1944, when Himmler says:[27]

"Another question which was decisive for the inner security of the Reich and Europe, was the Jewish question. It was uncompromisingly solved after orders and rational recognition. I believe, gentleman, that you know me well enough to know that I am not a bloodthirsty person; I am not a man who takes pleasure or joy when something rough must be done. However on the other hand, I have such good nerves and such a developed sense of duty - I can say that much for myself - that when I recognise something as necessary I can implement it without compromise. I have not considered myself entitled - this concerns especially the Jewish women and children - to allow the children to grow into the avengers who will then murder our fathers and our grandchildren. That would have been cowardly. Consequently the question was uncompromisingly resolved."

On June 21, 1944, Himmler spoke to Generals educated in the Nazi world view[28] in Sonthofen, mentioning the Jewish question again:[27]

"It was the most terrible task and the most terrible order which could have been given to an organisation: the order to solve the Jewish question. In this circle, I may say it frankly with a few sentences. It is good that we had the severity to exterminate the Jews in our domain."

Do we know anything of these? Where were they found? Of all of the 'evidence' 'destroyed' by Himmler, how would he forget his own recorded speeches?

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby polishheritage » 8 years 2 months ago (Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:14 am)

I found this link discussing Sonthofen (I will leave it to other writers to discuss the veracity of the recordings, etc themselves)

http://www.codoh.com/library/document/230/page/0/2

Even these excerpts — Peterson and Smith do not give the whole texts of the speeches — must be regarded with skepticism, for they were taken from documents that are manifestly unreliable. In contrast to the Posen speeches, however, they show rather clearly that Himmler refers to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans and other bandits operating behind the German lines on the eastern front. When some general comment on the "solution of the Jewish problem" or the "eradication of the Jews" appears, one may be sure that it is either the result of manipulation of the text or an outright forgery. It is simply inconceivable that Himmler would have given these high-ranking troop leaders a lecture on "genocide."

The indiscriminate actions against women and children during anti partisan operations were undeniably inhumane and virtually indefensible in terms of international law. Because those actions could hardly be concealed, Himmler had every reason to justify them to these leaders of the Army. As every veteran of the Eastern Front knows, women and even children often took part in guerrilla warfare. If the Germans sometimes made indiscriminate reprisals, they did so to assure the safety of their fighting men and to protect their lines of communication. But these reprisals were nothing in comparison with the carpet bombing of residential areas in German cities, which Churchill ordered for the purpose of indiscriminately killing German civilians — German women and children. For that slaughter there can be no justification whatever.143

But the essential point about these speeches of Himmler's, so far as our inquiry is concerned, is that none of them contains any reference to "mass gassings" in "extermination camps." In none of his extant speeches does Himmler mention Auschwitz in this regard. Indeed, the second Sonthofen address suggests an alternative explanation of the fate of the Hungarian Jews who, in the spring and summer of 1944, were transported to Auschwitz and — so the story goes — "gassed": They were brought there as a labor force for the construction of underground factories.144

From Himmler's remarks one can deduce that the Einsatzgruppen did deal harshly with the Jews in guerrilla-infested areas, proceeding mercilessly even against women and children. But it is also a fact that the Jewish population nearly always made common cause with the guerrillas. The operations of the Einsatzgruppen were a reaction to the insidious and illegal methods of warfare employed by a dastardly and vicious foe, and they can hardly be classified as "genocide." One recalls that Himmler himself, in a memorandum he sent to Hitler early in the war, called the idea of physically exterminating a people "un-Germanic and impossible" (see p. 30 above).

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Callahan » 8 years 2 months ago (Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:07 am)

polishheritage wrote:I found this link discussing Sonthofen (I will leave it to other writers to discuss the veracity of the recordings, etc themselves)

http://www.codoh.com/library/document/230/page/0/2

Even these excerpts — Peterson and Smith do not give the whole texts of the speeches — must be regarded with skepticism, for they were taken from documents that are manifestly unreliable. In contrast to the Posen speeches, however, they show rather clearly that Himmler refers to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans and other bandits operating behind the German lines on the eastern front. When some general comment on the "solution of the Jewish problem" or the "eradication of the Jews" appears, one may be sure that it is either the result of manipulation of the text or an outright forgery. It is simply inconceivable that Himmler would have given these high-ranking troop leaders a lecture on "genocide."

The indiscriminate actions against women and children during anti partisan operations were undeniably inhumane and virtually indefensible in terms of international law. Because those actions could hardly be concealed, Himmler had every reason to justify them to these leaders of the Army. As every veteran of the Eastern Front knows, women and even children often took part in guerrilla warfare. If the Germans sometimes made indiscriminate reprisals, they did so to assure the safety of their fighting men and to protect their lines of communication. But these reprisals were nothing in comparison with the carpet bombing of residential areas in German cities, which Churchill ordered for the purpose of indiscriminately killing German civilians — German women and children. For that slaughter there can be no justification whatever.143

But the essential point about these speeches of Himmler's, so far as our inquiry is concerned, is that none of them contains any reference to "mass gassings" in "extermination camps." In none of his extant speeches does Himmler mention Auschwitz in this regard. Indeed, the second Sonthofen address suggests an alternative explanation of the fate of the Hungarian Jews who, in the spring and summer of 1944, were transported to Auschwitz and — so the story goes — "gassed": They were brought there as a labor force for the construction of underground factories.144

From Himmler's remarks one can deduce that the Einsatzgruppen did deal harshly with the Jews in guerrilla-infested areas, proceeding mercilessly even against women and children. But it is also a fact that the Jewish population nearly always made common cause with the guerrillas. The operations of the Einsatzgruppen were a reaction to the insidious and illegal methods of warfare employed by a dastardly and vicious foe, and they can hardly be classified as "genocide." One recalls that Himmler himself, in a memorandum he sent to Hitler early in the war, called the idea of physically exterminating a people "un-Germanic and impossible" (see p. 30 above).

Thank you, I had actually just found that after I posted this thread. :) I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here before.

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Hannover » 8 years 2 months ago (Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:54 am)

Of course, not having the complete, verbatim German text renders accusations of mass murder worthless. Just because someones says this is what Himmler said does not mean that it is what Himmler actually said. Deliberate, misleading mistranslations are legion when it comes to the 'holocaust' allegations. Not to mention the complete lack of verbatim transcripts from the post war trials.

There are other real documents which absolutely shatter the notion that Jews were 'exterminated.

'Schlegelberger letter'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=534
Image
excerpt from that thread:
"Mr Reich Minister Lammers informed me that the Führer had repeatedly declared to him that he wants to hear that the Solution of the Jewish Problem has been postponed until after the war is over. That being so, the current discussions are of purely theoretical value, in Mr Reich Minister Lammers' opinion. He will moreover take pains to ensure that, whatever else happens, no fundamental decisions are taken without his knowledge in consequence of a surprise briefing by any third party."

Document's origins. Schlegelberger's undated minute on Lammer's reference to Hitler's ruling is in German Federal Archives (BA) file R.22/52. It was sent to Staatssekretär Freisler and two other officials (bottom left). This document has been published in facsimile in David Irving's books Hitler's War, Goebbels. Mastermind of the Third Reich, and Nuremberg, the Last Battle. It was definitely dated March or April 1942. Lammers was in Berlin on April 26, 1942. See Scheel's report on a talk between Lammers and Meissner after the final Reichstag session that day (T175/139/7479 et seq.).

and:
http://www.codoh.com/library/document/154/
Hitler, the 'Final Solution,' and the Luther Memorandum
A Response to Evans and Longerich
excerpt:
"On the occasion of a reception by the Reich Foreign Minister on 26 November 1941 the Bulgarian Foreign Minister Popoff touched on the problem of according like treatment to the Jews of European nationalities and pointed out the difficulties that the Bulgarians had in the application of their Jewish laws to Jews of foreign nationality."

"The Reich Foreign Minister answered that he thought this question brought by Mr. Popoff not uninteresting. Even now he could say one thing to him, that at the end of the war all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much."

also:
'Grubach debunks Jeffrey Herf and the 'Final Solution' canard'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4685

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby EtienneSC » 8 years 2 months ago (Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:30 pm)

The leader of the Hitler youth Baldur von Schirach witnessed one of Himmler's late speeches as Vienna Gauleiter and describes it in his memoirs Ich Glaubte an Hitler, published after his release from 20 years in prison in 1965. This should be added to consideration of these speeches.

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby EtienneSC » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:18 pm)

There is a live recording at the start of this documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhHTmPo0gMM
apparently.

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Mkk » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:30 pm)

Himmler's wording is hard but we don't actually hear of killing, aside from in relation to partisans.

These speeches are neither here nor there, the Nazis liked to use violent language, and the deportation of millions of Jews and the deaths of a large number would be considered harsh to anyone.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Hannover » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:15 pm)

The entire idea that Himmler would give 'exterminate the Jews' speeches in front of lots people and then have them recorded flies in the face of the 'holocaust' storyline which states that the entire process of alleged 'extermination' was a top secret operation.

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby spaceboy » 6 years 2 months ago (Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:54 pm)

polishheritage wrote:I

Even these excerpts — Peterson and Smith do not give the whole texts of the speeches — must be regarded with skepticism, for they were taken from documents that are manifestly unreliable. In contrast to the Posen speeches, however, they show rather clearly that Himmler refers to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans and other bandits operating behind the German lines on the eastern front. When some general comment on the "solution of the Jewish problem" or the "eradication of the Jews" appears, one may be sure that it is either the result of manipulation of the text or an outright forgery. It is simply inconceivable that Himmler would have given these high-ranking troop leaders a lecture on "genocide."


I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but how do the excerpts from the Sonthofen Speeches, particularly regarding women and children, show rather clearly that it was referring to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans?

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Hektor » 6 years 2 months ago (Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:34 am)

spaceboy wrote:....

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but how do the excerpts from the Sonthofen Speeches, particularly regarding women and children, show rather clearly that it was referring to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans?


"Women and Children" participated in the partisan war as well.

If you are looking for speeches attributed to Himmler here some can be found:
http://nsl-archiv.com/Tontraeger/Reden/ ... it=+Suche+

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Re: Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches

Postby Hannover » 6 years 2 months ago (Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:20 am)

A must read:
Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence
By Wilhelm Stäglich
at: http://codoh.com/library/document/230

For general purposes I've copied the contents, the Sonthofen speeches and analysis follows.
Contents

Introduction
Foreword
Chapter One: The Making of a Myth
Origins of the Auschwitz Myth
Form and Content of the Auschwitz Myth

Chapter Two: Contemporaneous Documents
Basic Documents from German Official Records
Speeches and Other Public Statements by Political Leaders of the Third Reich
Contemporaneous Manuscripts and Private Papers
Photographic "Documents"

Chapter Three: Testimony and Personal Accounts
"Eyewitness" Accounts of Auschwitz
Allied "War Crimes" Trials
The Birkenau "Death Factories" as Portrayed in the Most Important "Eyewitness Accounts"
The Cracow Memoirs of Rudolf Höß, Commandant of Auschwitz
Chapter Four: The Auschwitz Trial
Legal Proceedings as a Source of Material for Historians: Fact and Fiction
The Auschwitz Trial: A Show Trial?
Appendices
Partial Translation of Document NG-2586-G
"My Impressions of the Auschwitz Camp in 1944"
An Exchange of Correspondence between the Author and the Institut für Zeitgeschichte
Denial of Access to the Files of the Proceedings against Dr. Johann Paul Kremer
Denial of Access to the Files of the First Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial
An Exchange of Correspondence between the Author and the International Red Cross
Footnotes
Bibliography
Index
Illustrations

From chaper two:
Speeches and Other Public Statements by Political Leaders of the Third Reich
http://codoh.com/library/document/230/?page=3

Important background on the use of Himmler's speeches, then the Sonthofen speeches :
After Hitler's speeches, it is mainly the speeches of Himmler in which one seeks to find circumstantial evidence for the alleged racially motivated murder of the Jews. Speeches and excerpts of speeches of his supposedly relating to this subject have been published with a commentary by Agnes F. Peterson and Bradley F. Smith under the rather sensational title Heinrich Himmler: Geheimreden 1933 bis 1945.* Of course, it is absurd to call a speech delivered before a relatively large audience "secret." Nor is it known whether Himmler ever designated any of his speeches so. Evidently the title was chosen in the hope of selling more copies of the book.

* "Heinrich Himmler: Secret Speeches, 1933-1945." Although this volume was compiled and edited by two Americans, there does not seem to be an English-language edition of it. — T.F.

According to the "Remarks on the Edition" at the end of the book these speeches were discovered in the files of the "Personal Staff of the Reichsführer-SS," which the Americans seized as war booty. Today they are reportedly in the Bundesarchiv in Coblenz. Before they were returned, they were microfilmed. Whether they are entirely genuine is open to question.

Himmler was in the habit of formulating his speeches as he went along, using notes that he had written down himself, which often consisted of no more than a dozen phrases. According to Peterson and Smith, there are only four or five completely prepared texts among the documents published in their collection, but they do not specify which ones. From the end of 1942, Himmler's speeches were frequently — though not always — phonographically recorded with two machines. These devices are said to have worked poorly, leaving big gaps in the recordings. Beginning in 1943, SS-Untersturmführer Werner Alfred Veun was solely responsible for making and keeping the transcripts of Himmler's speeches. It is not clear just who had this duty before. Venn is supposed to have taken down and typed out the speeches — even making "corrections" (!) in the text, but changing the meaning "barely or not at all."'125

One can well imagine the possibilities for error involved in the preparation of these "documents." What is more, the American officials who "evaluated" the staff files of the Reichsführer-SS had ample opportunities to manipulate the papers, and probably took advantage of them, for some of Himmler's speeches were presented in evidence at the Nuremberg IMT trial.126

Peterson and Smith claim that Venn sent his transcripts of the speeches to Himmler, who then revised them slightly.127 Nobody asks whether this would have made any sense. If these were "secret speeches," there was little possibility of their ever being published. Moreover, it is doubtful whether Himmler had the time to go over his speeches carefully. Since they had already been delivered, that must have seemed a useless undertaking. How Peterson and Smith discovered these intimate details is a mystery.

There is considerable doubt as to whether the versions of the speeches that were presented to a horrified world after the fall of the Third Reich were identical with speeches Himmler may actually have delivered. Nevertheless, we are bound to discuss here those passages which are cited in support of the extermination thesis. Although they are constantly used to "substantiate" the charge that murders-by-gassing occurred at Auschwitz, they contain no mention of Auschwitz or any other alleged "extermination camp."
Sonthofen:
Addressing a group of Army generals at Sonthofen on May 5, 1944, Himmler said, among other things:

"Wir sind alle Soldaten, ganz gleich, welchen Rock wir tragen. Sie mögen mir nachfühlen, wie schwer die Erfüllug dieses mir gegebenen soldatischen Befehls war, den ich befolgt und durchgeführt habe aus Gehorsam und aus vollster Überzeugung. Wenn wir sagen: 'Bei den Männern sehen wir das ein, nicht aber bei Kindern," dann darf ich an das erinnern, was ich in meinen ersten Ausführungen sagte. In dieser Auseinandersetzug mit Asien müssen wir uns daran gewöhnen, die Spielregeln und die uns lieb gewordenen und uns viel näher liegenden Sitten vergangener europäischen Kriege zur Vergessenheit zu verdammen. Wir sind m. E. auch als Deutsche bei allen tief aus unserer aller Herzen kommenden Gemütsregungen nicht berechtigt, die haßerfüllten Racher groß werden zu lassen, damit dann unsere Kinder und unsere Enkel sich mit denen auseinandersetzen müssen, weil wir, die Väter oder Großväter, zu schwach und zu feige waren und ihnen das überließen."

We are all soldiers, no matter what uniform we wear. You can sympathise with me about how difficult it was to carry out the military order I was given. I obeyed from a sense of duty and from total conviction. If you say "We can understand about the men, but not the children," then I must remind you of my previous remarks. In this conflict with Asia, we have to get used to the idea that the rules of the game traditional in European wars, likewise the moral usages, of which we are even fonder and to which we are even more attached, must be consigned to oblivion. In my opinion, we, as Germans, do not have a right — whatever tender sentiments well up from the depths of our hearts — to allow hate-filled avengers to reach adulthood. Our children and grandchildren would only have to contend with them, because we, the fathers and grandfathers, were too weak and too cowardly to do it ourselves.140
======

On May 24, 1944, in another speech to the generals at Sonthofen, Himmler declared:

"Ich glaube, meine Herren, daß Sie mich so weit kennen, daß ich kein blutrünstiger Mensch bin und kein Mann, der an irgend etwas Hartem, was er tun muß, Freude oder Spaß hat. Ich habe aber andererseits so gute Nerven und ein so großes Pflichtbewußtsein — das darf ich für mich in Anspruch nehmen — daß ich dann, wenn ich wine Sache als notwendig erkenne, sie kompromißlos durchführe. Ich habe mich nicht für berechtigt gehalten — das betrifft nämlich die jüdischen Frauen und Kinder — in den Kindern die Rächer groß werden zu lassen, die dann unsere Väter [sic!] und unsere Enkel umbringen. Das hätte ich für feige gehalten. Folglich wurde die Frage kompromißlos gelöst. Zur Zeit allerdigs — es ist eigenartig in diesem Krieg — führen wir zunächst 100000, später noch einmal 100000 männliche Juden aus Ungarn in Konzentrationslager ein, mit denen wir unterirdische Fabriken bauen. Von denen aber kommt nicht einer irgendwie in das Gesichtsfeld des deutschen Volkes. Eine Überzeugug aber habe ich, ich würde für die im Osten des Generalgouvernements ausgebaute Front schwarz sehen, wenn wir dort die Judenfrage nicht gelöst hätten, wenn also das Ghetto in Lublin noch bestünde und das Riesenghetto mit 500000 Menschen in Warschau, dessen Bereinigug, meine Herren, uns im vorigen Jahr fünf Wochen Straßenhampf gekostet hat mit Panzerwagen und mit allen Waffen, wo wir inmitten dieses abgezäunten Ghettos rund 700 Hauserbunker gestürmt haben."

I believe, gentlemen, that you know me well enough to realize that I am not a bloodthirsty man nor a man who takes pleasure or finds sport in the harsher things he must do. On the other hand, I have strong nerves and a great sense of duty — if I do say so myself — and when I recognize the necessity of something, I will do it unflinchingly. As to the Jewish women and children, I did not believe I had a right to let these children grow up to become avengers who would kill our fathers [sic!] and grandchildren. That, I thought, would be cowardly. Thus the problem was solved without half-measures. At this time — it is one of those things peculiar to this war — we are taking 100,000 male Jews from Hungary to the concentration camps to build underground factories., and will later take another 100,000. Not one of them will ever come within the field of vision of the German people. I am convinced that things would look bleak for the front that has been built up to the east of the Government General if we had not resolved the Jewish problem there, if, for example, the ghetto in Lublin, or the massive ghetto in Warsaw, with its 500,000 inhabitants, were still in existence. It cost us five weeks of street-fighting, using tanks and all sorts of weapons, to clean out the Warsaw ghetto last year. In that walled-in ghetto, we had to storm about 700 bunkers.141"
======

Finally, on June 21, 1944, again before a gathering of generals at Sonthofen, he stated:

"Es ist gut, daß wir die Härte hatten, die Juden in unserem Bereich auszurotten. Fragen Sie nicht, wie schwer das war, sondern haben Sie als Soldaten — ich möchte fast sagen — Verständnis dafür, wie schwer ein solcher Befehl durchzuführen ist. Ziehen Sie aber auch bei kritischer Prüfung, nur als Soldaten für Deutschland denkend, den logischen Schluß, daß es notwendig war. Denn allein der Bombenkrieg wäre nicht durchzuhalten, wenn wir das jüdische Volk noch in unseren Städten gehabt hätten. Ich habe auch die Überzeugug, daß die Front bei Lemberg im Generalgouvernement nicht zu halten gewesen wäre, wenn wir die großen Ghettos in Lemberg, in Krakau, in Lublin und in Warschau noch gehabt hätten. Der Zeitpunkt, zu dem wir das letzte große Ghetto in Warschau — ich nenne Ihnen ruhig die Zahl — mit über 500 000 Juden in fünf Wochen Straßenkämpfen ausgeräumt haben im Sommer 1943, war gerade der letzte Zeitpunkt. Die Ghettos waren, so abgeschlossen sie auch gewesen sein mögen, die Zentralen jeder Partisanen- und jeder Bandenbewegug. Sie waren außerdem Vergiftungsherde für die Moral der Etappe... Ebenso will ich auch eine Frage, die sicherlich gedacht wird, gleich beantworten. Die Frage heißt: Ja, wissen Sie, daß Sie die erwachsenen Juden umbringen, das verstehe ich, aber die Frauen und Kinder... ? — Da muß ich Ihnen etwas sagen: Die Kinder werden eines Tages groß werden. Wollen wir so unanständig sein, daß wir sagen: nein, nein, dazu sind wir zu schwach, aber unsere Kinder können sich mit ihnen mal abgeben. Die sollen das auch einmal auskämpfen. Dann würde dieser jüdische Haß heute kleiner und später groß gewordener Rächer sich an unseren Kindern und Enkeln vergreifen, so daß sie noch einmal das gleiche Problem zu lösen hätten. Wie gesagt, in Warschau haben wir fünf Wochen Häuserkampf gehabt und 700 Bunker ausgeräumt, Kellerbunker, manchmal zwei übereinander. Wenn en Häuserblock erledigt war, donn kamen sie plötzlich hinten wieder hinaus. Der Jude hat immer Katakomben, Gänge, Kanäle. Das ist ein uraltes System. Er ist ein uralter Nomade. — Es war, wie gesagt, der letzte Zeitpunkt, denn ich glaube nicht, daß die Front im Generalgouvernement so leicht zu halten gewesen wäre."

It's a good thing we had the firmness to eradicate the Jews in our domain. Don't ask how difficult that was. As soldiers, you should appreciate — if I may put it that way — the difficulty of carrying out such an order. Also, as soldiers thinking only of what is best for Germany, you must, after critical examination, come to the logical conclusion that it was necessary. For the bombings alone would have been unbearable if we still had the Jews in our cities. I am likewise convinced that the front at Lemberg, in the Government General, could not have been held if we still had the large ghettos in Lemberg, Cracow, Lublin, and Warsaw. The summer of 1943 was the last possible time for clearing out the last big ghetto, the one in War saw, which had — I might as well give the figure — over 500,000 Jews, and that took five weeks of house-to-house combat. The ghettos, no matter how sealed off they may have been, were the centers of every kind of partisan and bandit activity. Likewise, they were breeding-grounds for the toxins of demoralization behind the lines ...

I also want to answer a question which I am sure is on your minds. The question is: "Yes, of course, you're killing the adult Jews. I can understand that. But what about the women and children?" — Well, I have to tell you something. One day those children will have grown up. How could we be so contemptibly dishonorable as to say: No, no! We're too weak for this. Our children can take care of them. Let them fight it out, too! When the little Jews of today are all grown up, they'll vent their Jewish hatred on our children and grandchildren, who will have the same problem to solve as we did...

As I said, we had five weeks of house to house fighting in Warsaw, and we cleaned out 700 bunkers — cellar fortifications — sometimes one on top of the other. When we got finished with one block, they suddenly came at us from behind. The Jew always has his catacombs, passages, tunnels. It is an ancient system. He's been a nomad from time immemorial. — As I said, this was the last possible time for this, and I don't believe that otherwise we could so easily have held the front in the Government General.142

Wilhelm Stäglich comments:

Even these excerpts — Peterson and Smith do not give the whole texts of the speeches — must be regarded with skepticism, for they were taken from documents that are manifestly unreliable. In contrast to the Posen speeches, however, they show rather clearly that Himmler refers to the execution of Jews only in connection with the fight against partisans and other bandits operating behind the German lines on the eastern front. When some general comment on the "solution of the Jewish problem" or the "eradication of the Jews" appears, one may be sure that it is either the result of manipulation of the text or an outright forgery. It is simply inconceivable that Himmler would have given these high-ranking troop leaders a lecture on "genocide."

The indiscriminate actions against women and children during anti partisan operations were undeniably inhumane and virtually indefensible in terms of international law. Because those actions could hardly be concealed, Himmler had every reason to justify them to these leaders of the Army. As every veteran of the Eastern Front knows, women and even children often took part in guerrilla warfare. If the Germans sometimes made indiscriminate reprisals, they did so to assure the safety of their fighting men and to protect their lines of communication. But these reprisals were nothing in comparison with the carpet bombing of residential areas in German cities, which Churchill ordered for the purpose of indiscriminately killing German civilians — German women and children. For that slaughter there can be no justification whatever.143

But the essential point about these speeches of Himmler's, so far as our inquiry is concerned, is that none of them contains any reference to "mass gassings" in "extermination camps." In none of his extant speeches does Himmler mention Auschwitz in this regard. Indeed, the second Sonthofen address suggests an alternative explanation of the fate of the Hungarian Jews who, in the spring and summer of 1944, were transported to Auschwitz and — so the story goes — "gassed": They were brought there as a labor force for the construction of underground factories.144

From Himmler's remarks one can deduce that the Einsatzgruppen did deal harshly with the Jews in guerrilla-infested areas, proceeding mercilessly even against women and children. But it is also a fact that the Jewish population nearly always made common cause with the guerrillas. The operations of the Einsatzgruppen were a reaction to the insidious and illegal methods of warfare employed by a dastardly and vicious foe, and they can hardly be classified as "genocide." One recalls that Himmler himself, in a memorandum he sent to Hitler early in the war, called the idea of physically exterminating a people "un-Germanic and impossible"
- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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