Show me a photo of "human ash" please

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Kingfisher
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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:31 am)

Hannover wrote:There is a good possibility that incomplete burning took place for quick sanitary purposes / disease prevention prior to burial.
But certainly there were more extensive photos, but what happened to them is the question. David Irving may be of help on that.

- Hannover

Hannover is almost certainly right on this. There would be no reason to attempt complete burning of bodies in situ but every reason for precautions against epidemic.

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Morrison » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:06 pm)

Jillo:

Can anyone here produce an actual photo of just "human ash?"

Remember, I'm not talking about bones and teeth, or even tiny fragments of bone and teeth.


Jillo, don't let anyone try to tell you that there is no ash apart from bones and teeth after a body is burnt.

It's pretty easy to understand really.

If you cooked a steak (meat and fat) from an animal long enough, would it be reduce to ash?

Of course it would.

Does a human body contain meat and fat?

Of course it does.

So if you cooked a human body long enough, you would end up with ash, bones and teeth.

I can't show you a photo of actual human ash like you ask for, but if you go get yourself a steak from some mammal, you can cook it to ashes and what you see will look just like human ash.

BTW Jillo, have you seen episodes #23 & #24 of this video:

http://www.holocaustdenial.com/OneThird ... _Index.asp

?

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby SesleyWaunders » 4 years 8 months ago (Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:35 am)

Morrison wrote:http://nafcash.com/

Long story short about these two claimed exculpatory forensic investigations: In August of 1944, the Soviets carried out a thorough “crime scene investigation” of Treblinka II, and their numerous excavations uncovered: refuse pits - filled with burned and unburned trash. No mass graves were claimed to have been found at Treblinka II. Yet another forensic examination was claimed to have been carried out by the Poles in November of 1945. Their excavations allegedly began, as the story goes, in one of Treblinka II’s trash pits - which had been falsely identified as a “huge mass grave” by a so-called “eyewitness.” No human remains were claimed to have been found in the trash pits. However, it has never been proven that the alleged Polish excavations actually took place at Treblinka II - and it is a fact that neither the Soviets nor the Poles ever proved that so-much-as one ounce of actual human ash or pulverized burnt human bone existed anywhere in the camp. Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz even admitted after the so-called “crime scene investigation” that: “During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves.”

...

And for those weak-willed true-believers who lack the courage, integrity and character to accept - The C.S.I. Challenge; The N.A.F.H. also offers - a cash reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage.


Like I said, the fact that the reward goes unclaimed says it all.


If I am reading that website correct, they offer 75k for someone to illegally go shovel the alleged mass graves for remains. I say illegally only because nobody is going to get clearance or the go ahead for doing so. Plus it's a complete waste of time and resources. I live in the desert and could go shovel my yard and find more interesting stuff.

No offense, but who in their right or wrong mind is going to do that? That seems like an impossible task. Plus, the 75k is broken into increments based on graves it appears.

Personally, they should offer a million per grave. Since its not going to be claimed, they could offer a monetary value not computable. 100 Frajillion per grave.

Not knocking the idea, but if I'm going to take on such a risk then the money is irrelevant. Cause in the event you are caught (in the act or after) you may as well just bury yourself in one of the graves.

I will say this goes on the top of my list of things to do in the event life is no longer worth it. Sounds like a great way to go out with a bang.

The whole Reinhardt storyline is ridiculous. So ridiculous that someone like myself would need to board an aircraft from the united states to Poland, buy a shovel and rent a car defuse its myth.

What about the de-forestation around these camps? Can't someone do some scientific work there? Tree ages and such. Seems to me a whole lot of trees in the surrounding area should be missing for the burning of that many people. I don't think the Germans re-planted them.

This stuff is killing me guys. Killing me slowly. I can't sleep at night anymore. I spend half my time angry at how stories like these Reinhardt fables are allowed to thrive.

Someone just needs to be a **** about this stuff and get people to open their eyes. I'm game. Don't have much to lose big picture. And obviously everything to gain. Revisionism needs a new hammer throw. Just feels like we are recycling old ideas. You would think in this social media age we could come up with something electric. No?

Everyone on this forum is highly intelligent. Far more than I am. But, I don't see how walking this fine line with science and evidence is going to get it done. Those are key ingredients to getting past the paradigm, but to beat fables, silly name calling and childish games you almost have to drop to their level and get weird about it.

I like the idea of a full length motion picture or better yet mini series that follows the narrative word for word. I would make it a comedy and show how preposterous it is to actually accomplish all these things. Have the Germans start getting mad at each other over all the logistical nightmares. You could have a lot of fun with this. All the while crushing the BS.

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Morrison » 4 years 8 months ago (Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:22 am)

SesleyWaunders:

Everyone on this forum is highly intelligent. Far more than I am.


SesleyWaunders, if you're not very intelligent, then you should try to make up for it by being more thorough in your research.

For instance, if you actually take the time to read the N.A.F.H. site carefully, you will see this:

Remember - this is not a historical issue per se, this is about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable.” (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.) If the so-called “scientific proof” for the existence of the phantom “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II really does exist - as is deceptively claimed / alleged / insinuated - then the numerous cash rewards offered by The N.A.F.H. would be claimed in a heartbeat. And that is a fact that only a self-deceiving coward would refuse to admit.

http://nafcash.com/


SesleyWaunders, do you understand that it is being claimed by exterminationists that archaeologists have already proven the existence and contents of these 75 alleged mass graves at those 4 sites?

So nobody is being asked to nor is anybody required to do anything illegal in order to earn the cash rewards. Just present "the alleged archaeological proof that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so undeniable.”

Are you still confused about the simple details SesleyWaunders? It couldn't be simpler really.

A careful reader will also see this:

And for those weak-willed true-believers who lack the courage, integrity and character to accept - The C.S.I. Challenge; The N.A.F.H. also offers - a cash reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage

http://nafcash.com/.


Just out of curiosity SesleyWaunders, do you see any statement of fact on the N.A.F.H. website that you can prove is untrue?

How about any statement of fact that you just think is untrue?

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Morrison » 4 years 8 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:58 pm)

SesleyWaunders:

If I am reading that website correct, they offer 75k for someone to illegally go shovel the alleged mass graves for remains. I say illegally only because nobody is going to get clearance or the go ahead for doing so. Plus it's a complete waste of time and resources. I live in the desert and could go shovel my yard and find more interesting stuff.

No offense, but who in their right or wrong mind is going to do that? That seems like an impossible task. Plus, the 75k is broken into increments based on graves it appears.



SesleyWaunders, have you ever heard of a guy named Yoram Haimi? He was given clearance and the go ahead to legally "go shovel the alleged mass graves for remains" at Sobibor. And he even excavated an actual mass grave there. So no, it is not "an impossible task."

See for yourself here;

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploa ... n-2013.pdf

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Morrison » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:56 pm)

SesleyWaunders:

the 75k is broken into increments based on graves it appears. Personally, they should offer a million per grave. Since its not going to be claimed, they could offer a monetary value not computable. 100 Frajillion per grave.


Yes, $1,000.00 / $100.00 per grave:

$1,000.00 - will be remitted for each one of the 75 claimed / alleged / insinuated “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II - identified by The N.A.F.H. - that are proven to contain the remains of at least 19 people. ($100.00 will be remitted for each one that is simply proven to contain human remains.)

http://nafcash.com/


However, If they offered "100 Frajillion per grave," then they wouldn't be able to say this:

The N.A.F.H. challenges any doubtful eligible potential claimant to a specific individual reward offer to accept a wager on its ability to prove that it has the ways and means to make good on the promised payment. To date, no one has dared to accept the wager

http://nafcash.com

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:05 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Hannover wrote:There is a good possibility that incomplete burning took place for quick sanitary purposes / disease prevention prior to burial.
But certainly there were more extensive photos, but what happened to them is the question. David Irving may be of help on that.

- Hannover

Hannover is almost certainly right on this. There would be no reason to attempt complete burning of bodies in situ but every reason for precautions against epidemic.


I have been attempting to find more photos of the alleged corpse burning at Dresden before trying to contact David Irving. There really doesn't seem to be any photos of cadavers piled on I-beam grates fully engulfed in flames. Since it's alleged that the cadavers, still dressed in their heavy winter clothing were soaked with gasoline prior to being set alight, the absence of such photos seems odd. Likewise the absence of any photos showing the results of those fires. I'm beginning to get the feeling that we're being treated to the same type of photo as a group of people standing in line or sitting in the shade with a caption of, "Jews waiting to be gassed."

In my search for more Dresden photos I came across a site called, "History in a Hour." No, hardly a rigorous examination of historical events. However, they did have this quote.

"The American novelist Kurt Vonnegut, who died in 2007, was a prisoner-of-war near Dresden when the city was attacked having been captured in December 1944 during the Battle of the Bulge. In the days following the raid on Dresden, Vonnegut and his fellow PoWs were put to work in the city, collecting bodies for burial while German civilians swore and threw stones at them. Eventually, wrote Vonnegut, ‘there were too many corpses to bury. So instead the Germans sent in troops with flamethrowers. All these civilians’ remains were burned to ashes.’ - See more at: http://www.historyinanhour.com/2013/02/ ... UmyAf.dpuf

That from a genuine eyewitness but flamethrowers? I cannot fathom any reason for Vonnegut to lie but where are the piles of cadavers being burned on I-beam grates? Holyhoaxers are quick to point to the alleged cremations at Dresden as proof that it was possible to cremate the 870,000 bodies at Treblinka on Sergeant Floss' railroad rail grills so I'm becoming rather skeptical of the cremation narrative for Dresden. Any comments or explanations for these anomalies would be appreciated if for no other reason than to relieve my nagging suspicion that I may be suffering from a bee in my bonnet.

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby hermod » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:17 am)

Atigun wrote:That from a genuine eyewitness but flamethrowers? I cannot fathom any reason for Vonnegut to lie but where are the piles of cadavers being burned on I-beam grates? Holyhoaxers are quick to point to the alleged cremations at Dresden as proof that it was possible to cremate the 870,000 bodies at Treblinka on Sergeant Floss' railroad rail grills so I'm becoming rather skeptical of the cremation narrative for Dresden. Any comments or explanations for these anomalies would be appreciated if for no other reason than to relieve my nagging suspicion that I may be suffering from a bee in my bonnet.


The purpose of the [alleged] Dresden pyres would have been different from the purpose of the alleged Aktion Reinhardt pyres. A sanitization purpose (i.e. making contagious corpses safe for burial) for the [alleged] Dresden pyres, an obliteration purpose (i.e. making corpses disappear from the face of the earth) for the alleged AR pyres. Obliteration pyres would, of course, have required a cremation more complete than sanitization pyres. The final product of obliteration pyres couldn't have been less than ashes and small bone fragments, while charred corpses would have been enough for sanitization (with heat killing a significant number of pathogens). Moreover, I remember reading Dresden stories of German mothers who immersed in water their kids and babies on fire and then saw their progeny reignite as soon as removed from water. If such stories are true, perhaps corpses on fire, burning by themselves under the effect of firebombs, were just thrown on such pyres until they stopped burning. Phosphorus bombs had turned the Germans killed at Dresden into matchsticks. The Dresden pyres were perhaps mere storage places for human matchsticks still burning.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby hermod » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:44 am)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:24 pm)

Yes, those are all quite likely scenarios, Hermod, but it still doesn't explain the absence of photos showing the actual burning process or the results of such cremations. Neither does it explain Vonnegut's reference to German soldiers using flame throwers. My point being that I'm beginning to question the official narrative that the cadavers were placed on the I-beam grates for the purpose of cremation for any reason. Yes, it seems a minor detail and not terribly relevant to the main holyhoax narrative but it has simply piqued my curiosity. Is it a fact or just another historical meme of the "everyone knows that" variety?

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby hermod » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:54 am)

Atigun wrote:Yes, those are all quite likely scenarios, Hermod, but it still doesn't explain the absence of photos showing the actual burning process or the results of such cremations.


Why would the Germans of that time have filmed the entire process? How could they expect that swindlers like Roberto Meinkampf would later use pictures of their own murdered brothers and sisters to vilify them and gain legitimacy for the brutal state of Israel with magic pyres?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby hermod » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:54 am)

hermod wrote:
Atigun wrote:Yes, those are all quite likely scenarios, Hermod, but it still doesn't explain the absence of photos showing the actual burning process or the results of such cremations.


Why would the Germans of that time have filmed or photographed the entire process? How could they expect that swindlers like Roberto Meinkampf would later use pictures of their own murdered brothers and sisters to vilify them and gain legitimacy for the brutal state of Israel with magic pyres?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:25 am)

That's somewhat begging the question, Hermod. Why would the Germans have photographed any of the procedure, then? I believe that most (all?) of those photos were taken by Walter Hahn, a professional photographer who lived in Dresden. The simple fact is that the photos don't fit the narrative which is further confused by Kurt Vonnegut's statement concerning German soldiers and flamethrowers.

Here's a different scenario. Obviously most streets would still be blocked with rubble so cadavers were brought to a central collection point where they could be temporarily stored on the I-beam grates until being loaded onto trucks/carts for transport to the the cemetery. The fact remains that you couldn't soak the entire pile of fully clothed cadavers in gasoline, set it alight and not have the pile of bodies fully engulfed in flames. Smoke and some flames showing at the bottom of the grates just isn't possible. I'm beginning to think that the iconic photo of the smoking pile of cadavers has been altered to show the smoke. Much like Hannover's avatar photo of the smoking utility pole.

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:06 am)

Atigun wrote:That's somewhat begging the question, Hermod. Why would the Germans have photographed any of the procedure, then? I believe that most (all?) of those photos were taken by Walter Hahn, a professional photographer who lived in Dresden. The simple fact is that the photos don't fit the narrative which is further confused by Kurt Vonnegut's statement concerning German soldiers and flamethrowers.

Here's a different scenario. Obviously most streets would still be blocked with rubble so cadavers were brought to a central collection point where they could be temporarily stored on the I-beam grates until being loaded onto trucks/carts for transport to the the cemetery. The fact remains that you couldn't soak the entire pile of fully clothed cadavers in gasoline, set it alight and not have the pile of bodies fully engulfed in flames. Smoke and some flames showing at the bottom of the grates just isn't possible. I'm beginning to think that the iconic photo of the smoking pile of cadavers has been altered to show the smoke. Much like Hannover's avatar photo of the smoking utility pole.

There is also the question as to what fuel could have been used if that fuel were under the grid. Coal cannot be lit just like that.
If the photos are genuine could it be that petrol sprayed over the bodies ignited first on the bodies and burned out first but that petrol which had run down onto the ground burned more slowly and was still burning when the photos were taken?

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Re: Show me a photo of "human ash" please

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:38 am)

I've only found a couple of small photos showing any flames, Kingfisher, and they don't appear to show any signs of the rest of the pile being burned. That is, their clothing still seems to be intact but the photos are small and were taken from a distance. I seem to recall that Roberto said something like 63,000 liters of gasoline were used to burn the bodies but that sounds utterly ridiculous. Even pouring a few hundred gallons of gasoline over the cadavers and letting it soak down through the clothing would create the potential for a serious explosion. I simply can't reconcile the photos with the narrative. Gasoline vapor can be damned explosive.


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