Why Hitler Persecuted Jews

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Guptalicious
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Why Hitler Persecuted Jews

Postby Guptalicious » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:29 am)

The issue has been raised.

Basically, Hitler's attitude was that Jewish people as a group were trouble makers. Many were Bolsheviks, or at any rate supported the overthrow of the Czarist regime and the Soviet government, at least in the early days. Unfortunately also, many of the Bolsheviks who tried to set up shop in Western Europe were also very obviously Jewish: Bela Kun in Hungary, Kurt Eisner in Munich, Rosa Luxemberg in Berlin (Karl Liebknecht was not Jewish, but everyone assumed he was.)

So Hitler's attitude, first, was that in time of war the Jews had to be locked up, otherwise they would start revolutions, etc.

Another aspect of the problem that Hitler sometimes talked about was the fact that Jews in those days -- like other minorities, e.g., Italian Americans -- tended to have a strong group identity and were mistrustful of the outside authority. In the case of the Italian immigrants to America, of course, it led to the mafia. In the Jewish case it led to that tendency which still exists for Jews to hold back from exposing or criticizing members of their "team." Of course, this is something that anyone with immigrant roots is familiar with. And it goes away over time. The problem is that Hitler's formative opinions came about at a time when this kind of group allegiance over collective allegiance was unfortunately very strong among European minorities in Europe and America.

So this was another reason why "all" Jews had to be punished, according to AH's logic; since the "good" ones (who might have comprised the majority for all AH knew) were not turning on the "bad" ones.

I don't agree with this by the way just trying to explain the man's mind.

Finally, the Jews were characterized as "parasites." This was a common designation for Nazi enemies and tended to emphasize the lower middle, working class, or farming base of support. Of course, the communists identified parasites differently, but that's another story.

Long story short, neither the Nazis or the Communists had much patience with those they considered "useless mouths" or "slackers."

It should be perfectly obvious that any school of political thought that picks out entire groups of people as being the cause of problems, either current or potential problems, is wrong. Unfortunately both the Nazis and the Communists did just that, and persecuted and deported (to say the least) millions of people who were picked out as "the bad guys."

What gets us into the gray area is that the USA was not immune. I am not saying "the same" as Nazi Germany, but I am saying that the USA, in those days, was awash in race prejudice against Blacks that was far more virulent than Germans towards Jews, that the USA acted on its racist attitudes against the Japanese American community, for which the threat of spying was really just something of a pretext, that the USA (and Britain) while fighting a war against a dictator who persecuted peoples as groups, indiscriminately bombed the German people, AS A GROUP, and finally, the USA, without any pity and without any real remorse even 60 years later, killed something like a million Japanese in firebombings and nuclear bombings, much of this killilng being utterly beside the point, and unfortunately can only be understood as a symptom of our own race hatred.

I don't think the above litany lets the Nazis off the hook. But it needs to be pointed out, from time to time.

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:55 am)

Well said.

Tom

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Postby Goethe » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:01 am)

Some well stated points from Guptalicious.

For me anyway, I'm careful about the use of buzzwords. The word 'persecution' in relation to the Jews has been manipulated to mean a policy of extermination by the National Socialists; which, after close examination, was not the case.

The period was one of great upheaval, worldwide. I believe that the Germans have been unfairly singled out given what else was going on. I can't think of any major power that was not diligently protecting what they perceived were their own interests, often by methods that today we would find unacceptable. But then Israel seems to be the exception of today.
It is said the Germans were trying to take over the world. What horse feathers that is! Take a look at a map of the world in the 30's-40s, who was actually ruling the world? That fact alone quickly demonstrates absolute double standards that prevailed then, still prevail today.

Thanks

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:28 am)

:? The problem with the average person concearning nazi Germany is they don't take into consideration that there were many people involved,with varying individual degrees on how they personaly viewed the Jewish problem.In the course of my reading on the subject,and I have to admit I've taken the Irving side of things,I find that the top three third reich honchos,Hitler,Goering and Hess seamed to me to be not as concearned with jews in a pasionately hatefull manner as other people were,such as Julius Streicher or Heinrich Himmler.Most people don't usualy take into consideration that there were many people involved,and so much going on that in the course of things,some individuals are going to want to aproach things there own way.I think that Hitler certainly had a dislike for jews,but I don't think he hated them enough to want to liquidate all of them.On the other hand,I think Hienrich Himmler hated them enough to want them killed,and this is a man in a strong position to undertake things his own way.Besides,after a certain point,Hitler had no time to worry about affairs of the state because he had a war on two fronts to deal with.He had other people to handle these things.In short,one should dissect the nazi era into individual efforts instead of looking upon the wrongdoings as a collective effort.Although I agree with your post.It was fair,clear,concise,and made perfect sense to me.

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:11 pm)

As far as what motivated the Nazi outlook, so much of it seems irrational. Apparently the country had collapsed after WW I and the Jewish community was unfortunatley blamed. The beliefs in such notions as the Protocols of Zion are almost occultic and not what one could call logical. I personally am not convinced that Hitler was completely sane. While one cannot argue insanity for the Nazis, so much of that era looks like madness of some kind. I can't help but think that Hitler was a derelict and a madman to a reasonable degree. Others may not agree, but whatever the case, the Nazi phenomenon was not normal. A great mystery to me is why the Jewish community was singled out, but as I mentioned, one possibly might not be able to argue that the country was what we would normally call rational.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:11 pm)

Dan Cullum wrote:As far as what motivated the Nazi outlook, so much of it seems irrational. Apparently the country had collapsed after WW I and the Jewish community was unfortunatley blamed. The beliefs in such notions as the Protocols of Zion are almost occultic and not what one could call logical. I personally am not convinced that Hitler was completely sane. While one cannot argue insanity for the Nazis, so much of that era looks like madness of some kind. I can't help but think that Hitler was a derelict and a madman to a reasonable degree. Others may not agree, but whatever the case, the Nazi phenomenon was not normal. A great mystery to me is why the Jewish community was singled out, but as I mentioned, one possibly might not be able to argue that the country was what we would normally call rational.
:? Would you call the civil rights movement in America irrational?Of coourse it's irrational.You would have to be to go against such forces of hatred.Look what Germans after WW1 hand to contend with.It was only a matter of time before someone lead a revolt against the unfair and rediculous treaty of Versiles.You are partialy right,hunger and poverty can drive you insane enough to fight back,and indeed like a madman to go against such odds.I personaly beleave Hitler should be revered as a hero in his own rite.

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:16 pm)

When I say irrational, I suppose that one may also say surreal. People used to say prayers to Hitler, and that to me is extremely strange. Would you be more comfortable with the term chaotic?

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:27 pm)

Dan Cullum wrote:When I say irrational, I suppose that one may also say surreal. People used to say prayers to Hitler, and that to me is extremely strange. Would you be more comfortable with the term chaotic?
:?First of all,where are you getting this information about people praying to Hitler from?Sounds like more propaganda to me.Second,where they praying to him,or for him?If someone where praying for the president of the USA,it wouldn't seam so wrong then,would it.It's just like seeing a picture of children saluting Adolf hitler.To the western mind it would look like evil seduction.If there were a picture of American kids saluting the president,it would be patriotic.See the difference?

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:39 pm)

Code Yellow,
As far as people praying to Hitler, I saw it somewhere on the Internet. I'm sorry to be so vague, but I cannot presently find it. There was a prayer, as I recall, that stated something like "put your head upon my lap" in the content. Can anyone help me with this? As I recall, the prayer was in the form that Hitler was the object. I will assume that you are right and that people were praying for Hitler. That in and of itself might not be considered strange but the people who fought and died for him and Germany seems like a cult of sorts, which was the point I was trying to make in that it was simply not a state that one could compare any present one in the Western world in as far as its fanaticism was concerned.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:48 pm)

There's Hitler with the 'planned extermination of 6,000,000 Jews and gas chambers'; and there's Hitler without the 'planned extermination of 6,000,000 Jews and gas chambers'.

Remove those lies and we have a leader very much in character with the times.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:58 pm)

Dan Cullum wrote:Code Yellow,
As far as people praying to Hitler, I saw it somewhere on the Internet. I'm sorry to be so vague, but I cannot presently find it. There was a prayer, as I recall, that stated something like "put your head upon my lap" in the content. Can anyone help me with this? As I recall, the prayer was in the form that Hitler was the object. I will assume that you are right and that people were praying for Hitler. That in and of itself might not be considered strange but the people who fought and died for him and Germany seems like a cult of sorts, which was the point I was trying to make in that it was simply not a state that one could compare any present one in the Western world in as far as its fanaticism was concerned.
:D Don't get me wrong,I am not being disrespectful of your opinion,I just don't view the third reich as a cult type of situation.To me,that is typical of a western view of the subject.We have young people dying in Iraq right now for country and president.As far as fanaticism goes,they better had been gung ho about the whole thing because soon the allies would be comming and it wasn't for tea,so they had to be more than ready for the worst.Such as the way people view the hitler youth fire brigades as youth being used to to further the fuhrer's personal gain.The truth of the matter is,it made sense for even the youth,as young as they could be to prepare themselves for the devistation of air raid bombings.

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Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:14 pm)

Code Yellow,
I found the source of the prayers, etc... It is a fundamentalist religious site. It is at http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1245.cfm. You win the argument, but I still have to wonder if these prayers have a factual basis. If so, do you understand my response to viewing Nazi Germany? I could say that as an understatement, the word atypical might come to mind. I saw Triumph of the Will and watched it the same way someone would a horror/sci-fi movie. Perhaps my outlook is too Western but I couldn't help but wonder "What in God's name is going on in the country?"

Hannover,
Your statement that Hitler (without the Holocaust) was a leader in keeping with the times brought several things to mind. People can call it conspiracy theory if they wish but I always viewed America's involvement with suspicion. For one, there were those on Wall Street who are alleged to have contributed financially to the rise of the Nazi Party. Then there was Henry Ford, who practically ghost wrote Mein Kamph in that his book The International Jew is said to have influenced Hitler and he practically plagarized it . His book also sold many copies in Nazi Germany and I read once that the Hitler Youth were exposed to it. Then there was I.G. Farben and Auschwitz. Even George Bush's family and even Joseph Kennedy have been viewed with suspicion. I really have to defend my belief that Nazi Germany did not arise in a vacuum. The view of America in the role of saviour to the Jewish community as a whole I believe rests on a shaky foundation.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:27 pm)

The view of America in the role of saviour to the Jewish community as a whole I believe rests on a shaky foundation.

Especially since the ever changing story has been morphed by Jews who now claim the US 'didn't do enough', ie: lawsuits for not bombing Auschwitz. The old bait & switch trick.
And since the US was putting Japanese-Americans in concentration camps and our Communist Allies were imprisoning Christians in the gulags, what could the US say about Germans putting Jews in labor camps. Especially since there wasn't (still isn't) any indicators that Jews were being 'exterminated'.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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