The most important Photograph / corpse color

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Werd
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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Werd » 3 years 1 month ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:38 pm)

Henry. wrote:
Werd wrote:To me these are the interesting parts.

"The classical 'cherry-pink' color of carboxy-hemoglobin is usually evident if the saturation of the blood exceeds about 30%."

"a percentage of 60-70% “loss of consciousness, for prolonged exposure respiratory arrest "


So if COHb levels have to be 60% before someone loses consciousness, it means that someone can still be alive and on two feet, yet stumbling if they reach 40 or even 45%. And at those rates, red ante mortem colouring should appear. Mattogno thus seems to be stating with his sources that nearly all ante mortem cases will yield red skin if the percentage is high enough, but not so high that it incapacitates them.

Exactly!

There are three phases involved here not two as Nessie pretends. In fact Nessie concentrates on one phase (ante mortem) and confines his observations to people with COHb levels under 30% when red discolouring is hard to detect if at all present. To be accurate it must be understood that people, subjected to homicidal gassing are trapped and cannot simply remove themselves to a clinic for treatment. They must pass through these three phases.

1 - Ante mortem Before death.

2 - Peri mortem At or near the time of death.

3 - Post mortem After death.

In Nessie's evidence those suffering from CO poisoning are seen and treated ante mortem before levels of COHb get to the 30% stage. However, the people said to have been killed in gas chambers must, at some stage before death, have past that point (30%) when discolouration begins to show. This 30% threshold is noted in medical textbooks and journals.

Well it seems Nessie is back to his/her old tricks on rodoh by refusing to answer directly why Wiernick said corpses turned yellow from the gas. And Nessie is still ignoring the point illustrated by myself and Henry and Mattogno seen above. He keeps going on about sources saying red colouring in live patients poisoned from CO is rare. He refuses again and again to discuss percentages of CO in said poisoned human beings. In other words, he came here, ran away and is pushing his nonsense again in the safe confines of rodoh.

Furthermore, when one reads above what I have quoted from the previous page, it should dawn on them that this red colouring would appear very quickly once the CO concentrations reaches those necessary levels. It will not take minimum 20 minutes to appear or 3 hours at minimum. That particular time frame has to do with the redness associated with livor mortis in corpses. One should take care not to mix apples with oranges. One should not behave like Nessie.



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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby hermod » 3 years 1 month ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:34 am)

Werd wrote:Well it seems Nessie is back to his/her old tricks on rodoh by refusing to answer directly why Wiernick said corpses turned yellow from the gas. And Nessie is still ignoring the point illustrated by myself and Henry and Mattogno seen above. He keeps going on about sources saying red colouring in live patients poisoned from CO is rare. He refuses again and again to discuss percentages of CO in said poisoned human beings. In other words, he came here, ran away and is pushing his nonsense again in the safe confines of rodoh.


How can he think that non-lethal levels of carboxyhemoglobin are of any help in debates about homicidal gas chambers? His 'arguments' are as useful in "Holocaust" talkings as diet tips in studies about the intense starvation in Somalia during the 1990s. :roll:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Atigun » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:00 pm)

So, Nessie, you don't know why Wiernik would claim that the cadavers gassed by CO that he saw were yellow. The obvious, most likely answer is that he is lying. Wiernik firmly established himself as a liar with his tales of his marathon corpse carrying duties, the naked high jumping Jewess and the tale of a bullet bouncing off him amongst other "howlers." Like other so-called eyewitnesses who saw cadavers of almost every color of the rainbow except red, Wiernik was simply lying. There were NO gas chambers at Treblinka. There were NO giant graves at Treblinka large enough to accommodate 800,000 (or whatever) cadavers.

The propaganda effort by Ms. CS-C has been thoroughly debunked by Eric Hunt. See his video. Arad's tales of 30 meter deep burial pits or even the 10 meter deep graves of Wiernik have also been debunked. That is supported by CS-C's discovery by GPR of ten little holes dug in the Treblinka II area the combined volume of which wouldn't contain 10% of the alleged bodies killed at Treblinka. No, the "discovery" of a few tile shards and a garbage pit doesn't prove the existence of homicidal gas chambers and multiple ten thousand plus cubic meter mass graves. Wiernik claimed to have seen yellow cadavers because he was lying. Easy peasy.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Werd » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:06 pm)

P.S.
If someone tried to argue the corpses turned blue instead of red, this does not help even though there is such a thing as yellow-blue colourblindness. First of all, it is rare. However, if we peruse Wiernik's book, we clearly see that he uses many colours in his book.

Chapter three.
As I worked, I noticed that some of the workers had red or yellow patches on their pants.

He can see red and yellow just fine.

Chapther twelve.
Clouds of black smoke began to pour out at once and the fire thus started glimmered all day long.

He can see black just fine.

Chapter eight.
Despite the danger, the traffic continued, a new accomplice taking over where the previous one had left off. In that way a chosen few from among millions survived-between the devil and the deep blue sea.

He knows what blue is.

Well there goes the theory that Wiernik could have been colourblind in anyway. Since he was not, my above premise that he could have been but was not, is correct and acceptable to use in the deductive argument above.

Edit:
Atugin, don't start asking how those things were possible. That's a fallacy of incredulity. :lol:

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Atigun » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:40 pm)

Sure, Nessie, Wiernik just made a (heh-heh) little mistake. Just like the rest of his obvious lies were just, "little mistakes" that any eyewitness might reasonably make about some unimportant little detail. Care to explain Wiernik's tale of the daily, nonstop corpse carrying marathons? How about the tale of the bouncing bullet? Tell us, Nessie, how many lies...er..."mistakes" does Wiernik have to tell before his testimony loses credibility? Let me guess. As long as a witness says that the eeevil Germans killed six million Jews the details don't matter. Uh-huh.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Henry. » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:27 pm)

Werd wrote:The Polish Underground who was connected with the Polish government in exhile in London...
...and more importantly to the World Jewish Congress

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Atigun » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:17 pm)

Sorry, Werd, but I lack the necessary computer skills to perform the "cut and paste" procedure. However, I've taken all of Wiernik's stories from his book, "A Year In Treblinka." It's free on the internet. Google "wiernik a year in treblinka." My marathon corpse carrying story comes from Wiernik's claim that when he first arrived at Treblinka on August 23 he was assigned to corpse carrying duty. He claimed that he was force to run, non-stop from sunrise to sunset carrying cadavers to the mass graves, a distance of about 300 meters. They did that continuously with no food or water while being beaten with whips, rods and rifle butts. The latitude of Treblinka receives 14 hours of daylight on August 24 and I assumed that 5 mph would be a reasonable running speed for a sedentary middle aged man. A brisk walk will accomplish 4 mph and trained runners routinely complete a 27 mile marathon in about 3 hours or 9 mph. 14 hours times 5 mph equals 70 miles, the distance that Wiernik and his co-workers ran in a day while carrying dead bodies for half that distance.

In a previous CODOH thread I have a complete analysis of Wiernik's bouncing bullet story. It gets a bit technical but I believe that it's easily understandable by those not familiar with firearms. More later but I must now go tend to a sick Kenworth. It's supposed to be engaged in helping to dig large Wiernik sized holes in the ground where they are needed and filling in large Wiernik sized holes where they aren't needed. That's also called road building. More later.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Dresden » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:33 pm)

Atigun said:

"Sorry, Werd, but I lack the necessary computer skills to perform the "cut and paste" procedure. However, I've taken all of Wiernik's stories from his book, "A Year In Treblinka." It's free on the internet. Google "wiernik a year in treblinka.""

There are a few more Wiernikisms in this article by Bradley Smith that helps to discredit "Crazy Yankiel Wiernik"(I don't think this is off topic because it helps to discredit a "corpse color" "eyewitness")

http://codoh.com/library/document/1607

Elie Wiesel Loves Crazy Yankiel Wiernik

By Bradley R. Smith

Published: 1984-10-01


In 1977 Elie Wiesel was invited to lecture on the truth of the "genocide" claims to students and Faculty at Northwestern University. There he explained to his audience that, while Greeks invented tragedy, Romans the epistle, the Renaissance the sonnet, "our generation invented a new literature, that of testimony."

As an example of the power and value of this new literature, Wiesel quoted extensively from crazy Yankiel Wiernik, who was interned at Treblinka concentration camp during 1942/43. There Wiernik worked as a carpenter for the SS, escaped, and gave an account of his adventure to the world. You can read his crazy story in its entirety in Death Camp Treblinka, ed. by Alexander Donat (New York, Holocaust Library, 1979).

"You must listen," Wiesel exhorted his audience at Northwestern from the lectern.


"You must listen to more! I repeat, if Yankiel Wiernik had the courage to write, you must listen."

"'Between 450 and 500 persons were crowded into a (gas) chamber measuring 125 square Feet in Treblinka.'"

That is, into a room about the size of your kitchen perhaps. 10 feet wide, 12' 6" long. 450 to 500 people, eh? What do you think? Those SS guys must have really known how to fill a house. Apparently no professor at Northwestern University questioned the propriety of accepting such an outlandish claim. Why?

"You must listen to more," Wiesel told his audience that night.. still, of the various passages he read from crazy Yankiel's memoir, he overlooked (purposefully? ) some of the most comic ones, such as:

"Work was begun to cremate the dead [about 20,000 to 30,000 a day, ed.]. It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires."

Do you like that one? Or do you think Yankiel was just sucking up to those militant feminists who claim that women are better for any job than men?

How about this one?

"It was a terrifying sight. The most gruesome ever beheld by human eyes. When corpses of pregnant women were cremated, their bellies would burst open. The fetus would be exposed and could be seen burning inside the mother's womb."

Pretty neat, eh? Remarkable too, particularly when you reflect on how the American and British militaries burned tens of thousands of pregnant German and Japanese women in aerial bombardments during the war and those women were unable to provide their chroniclers with the same unique exhibition.

Is Elie Wiesel, in recommending Wiernick's memoirs to us, suggesting that only Jewish women have the talent to display their burning fetuses in such a fabulous manner? Or is this an example of ethnocentrism running amok? Is it something else?

"The machinery of the gas chambers were operated by two Ukranians. One of them, Ivan, was tall, had kind and gentle eyes, but was nevertheless a sadist. He often attacked us while we worked and nailed our ears to the wall,…"

I confess I threw this one in for comic relief. Do you like it? Nailed our ears to the wall? Often? It's one of my favorite Yankiel Wiernik genocide stories, and crazy Yankiel's got a million of 'em.

Elie Wiesel likes it enough himself that it is one of the passages in the Wiernick memoir he chose to read at Northwestern that night. I wonder how many people in the audience laughed? Really laughed?

Ivan lives in Cleveland now. I'm trying to get in touch with him.

As for Yankiel Wiernik, there is a photo of him in Death Camp Treblinka. It's a head shot, with one ear clearly visible. It's a perfect ear. It's a lovely ear. Whenever Ivan decided to nail Yankiel up to a wall someplace, he must have used the same ragged ear every time. And when the time came later for Yankiel to have his photo taken, he remembered to show the good one to the camera.

Ah, Vanity, thy name must be Yankiel Wiernik.

(The "kindling" and "fetus" anecdotes will be found on page 170, the "ears" anecdote on page 158, and Yankiel's photo on page 147, all in Death Camp Treblinka.)

Now, what I need to understand (I need this) is why so many in the press and media, and in the universities, accept at face value what an Elie Wiesel or any of the cultists he surrounds himself with have to say about the Holocaust, the "death camps," or anything else. On the face of it, either they are fools or believe you are. Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about those matters, but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined.
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Dresden » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:41 pm)

Atigun said:

"In a previous CODOH thread I have a complete analysis of Wiernik's bouncing bullet story. It gets a bit technical but I believe that it's easily understandable by those not familiar with firearms"

Where can I find that, Atigun?.....I would sure like to read that.

"More later but I must now go tend to a sick Kenworth"

Be careful not to gas yourself with that deadly diesel exhaust! :D
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Werd » 3 years 1 month ago (Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:44 pm)

Atigun's name in a search engine with "bullet" as the key words yields this result.
'facts' on Treblinka steam chambers & assorted sworn tales

We also find another ridiculous testimony from someone who was in Chelmno.
Szymon Srebrnik claims he was shot at Chelmno - one of the most important witnesses of Chelmno - any xrays? actual proof?

At his testimony in Lodz in June 1945, Szymon recalled:
When the Soviet Army was advancing quickly, one night we were ordered to leave the granary in groups of five … Lenz ordered us to lie down on the ground. He shot everybody in the back of the head. I lost consciousness and regained it when there was no one around. All the SS-men were shooting inside the granary. I crawled to the car lighting the spot and broke both headlights. Under the cover of darkness I managed to run away. The wound was not deadly. The bullet went through the neck and mouth and pierced my nose and then went out.

When the absurdities pile up and they are found to be uttered by many different people, it is clear the Soviets were busy creating authentic eyewitness testimonies that were in fact false and never uttered by a true inmate, or he was there but what he said happened never did happen.

You want to take a stab at that one there, Nessie? As in, go into that topic I linked above and defend such an absurd and unlikely story? can you show many instances of crimes whereby someone was shot that way and survived? can you give some inductive evidence that this is possible? Are we being scientific and justified in asking these questions, or are they fallacies of increduilty? :lol: Regarding Szymon's testimony, Mattogno wasted no time in exposing it for the nonsense it was in his book on Chelmno.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 3 years 1 month ago (Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:44 pm)

Even you can debate me on radio if you really believe what you keep spouting Repeating the same things over and over again does NOT turn them into truth

So, debate me on radio. Just tell me you are willing to debate me and I will make the necessary arrangements for a radio debate. It will not involve much more than a Skype connection to you and about two hours of your time.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:26 am)

I have found a scientific reference to bluish skin colour in an MSDS for sodium cyanide: http://siri.org/msds/mf/baker/baker/files/s3458.htm
In most cases, cyanide poisoning causes a deceptively healthy pink to red skin color. However, if a physical injury or lack of oxygen is involved, the skin color may be bluish.
The gas chamber story alleges victims packed to a degree that would certainly lead to lack of oxygen.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Hannover » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:39 am)

Kingfisher wrote:I have found a scientific reference to bluish skin colour in an MSDS for sodium cyanide: http://siri.org/msds/mf/baker/baker/files/s3458.htm
In most cases, cyanide poisoning causes a deceptively healthy pink to red skin color. However, if a physical injury or lack of oxygen is involved, the skin color may be bluish.
The gas chamber story alleges victims packed to a degree that would certainly lead to lack of oxygen.
The details would be critical here. It would depend upon what is meant by "lack of oxygen". Is that the complete lack of oxygen, which is how I read the statement, or merely lower than normal amounts of oxygen in the surrounding air?

The storyline claims that the Zyklon-B was dropped into the alleged Auschwitz 'gas chambers' via four openings in the roof, there were also drains, there were also vents, thus some oxygen would have been prevalent. If the bluish color can only occur in conditions where oxygen is not prevalent at all then the 'bluish color' would not apply to the alleged gassings at Auschwitz as there clearly would have been some oxygen within the alleged 'gas chambers'.

And if somehow the alleged 'gas chambers' could have been made oxygen free, why use Zyklon-B at all? Those alleged to have entered the chamber would simply have been easily suffocated thus sparing the expense and dangers of using a cyanide releasing product like Zyklon-B.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:12 am)

Hannover:
One argument sometimes brought against the gas chambers is precisely that the gas was unnecessary, since the airtight chambers would have lead to suffocation, but the process would be quicker and more reliable if supplemented by a poisonous gas.

I don't know where the writers of this MSDS drew their information from, nor do I know of another source, but it makes sense. At what levels of oxygen deprivation the blue of anoxia would become the overriding factor I do not know.

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Re: The most important Photograph / corpse color

Postby borjastick » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:35 am)

From a DEFRA report on gassing badgers:

'Further research into alternative population control methods (e.g. sett-based culling methods and non-lethal methods) is also under consideration. This includes a potential investigation into the use of anoxic gas or gas-filled foam as a sett-based means of humane culling.

According to Wikipedia, "anoxic" means the total depletion in the level of oxygen.'
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'


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