Questions For My Mother

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PotPie
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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby PotPie » 6 years 7 months ago (Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:52 am)

IF you ever wanted to ask about gassings, you could carefully word your queries like, ’Why do people say there were no gassings?’ I wouldn't just blurt out and say there weren't any. There is a strong taboo against that and many have a programmed angry reflexive response.

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Armor105 » 6 years 7 months ago (Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:58 am)

PotPie wrote:IF you ever wanted to ask about gassings, you could carefully word your queries like, ’Why do people say there were no gassings?’ I wouldn't just blurt out and say there weren't any. There is a strong taboo against that and many have a programmed angry reflexive response.


I'll probably just keep probing until she asks me straight out.

I mean, my mums sister I think sent that testimony sheet for Yad Vashem and it says place of death, Chelmno extermination camp.

On what evidence?
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Armor105 » 6 years 7 months ago (Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:00 pm)

This looks like my Aunt asking a tracking website about her grandfather Wolf Woziwoda 579 days ago which would make it May 12th 2011.

justanswers - genealogy

The Yad Vashem testimony which she filled out is 14th February 2011.

So she has basically claimed he was murdered in Chelmno via Yad Vashem 3 months before she enquired about what happened to him at just answers website.

In a related thread on justanswers she even says:

"hello again.if can give infomation abaut his family like children and what happend to him in the getto."

LINK: justanswers - genealogy
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Kladderadatsch » 6 years 7 months ago (Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:20 pm)

Armor105 wrote:Search for Woziwoda on yad vashem's index.

Here's my great grandpa Wolf . . .

Source: Pages of Testimony
Last Name: Vozivda
First Name: Volf
Gender: Male
Place of Birth: Lodz
Citizenship: Poland
Marital Status: WIDOWER
Permanent Place of Residence: Lodz, Poland
Place during the war: Lodz, Ghetto, Poland
Place of Death: Chelmno, Extermination Camp, Poland
Type of material: Page of Testimony
Submitter's Last Name: Ruza
Submitter's Last Name: Baum

Relationship to victim: GRANDDAUGHTER
Is the Submitter a Survivor?: YES
Item ID: 9543814

My Aunt who lives in Israel, her surname is Ruza and my mums maiden name is Baum. They are the submitters I guess. The two grand daughters.

Interesting they are classed as survivors. My Aunt went East in 1939 and my mum was born in Magnitogorsk in 1941.


A small point, Armor105, but I suspect that there is only one submitter here, namely, Aunt Baia. The translated summary lists both Ruza and Baum under "Submitter's Last Name," but if you look at the actual memorial page, you'll see that Baum is written in the space for "Previous/maiden name." So it's Baia Ruza, nee Baum, and not the Baum sisters. YV no doubt has its own reasons for not distinguishing between maiden and married names (probably to make searches easier), but one result is that it may look sometimes like a single memorial was submitted by two people when it really was just one.

Not that it's likely to matter, of course, but if you were ever to ask your mom about that time she and Aunt Baia went to Yad Vashem, well, you might get her wondering.

Also, this: "Interesting they are classed as survivors. My Aunt went East in 1939 and my mum was born in Magnitogorsk in 1941."

The classification (as with just about everything in the YV names database) is a matter of self-reporting. Baia circled "Yes" (כן) on the form in response to the prompt "I am a Shoah survivor: Yes/No" and so that's what the record reflects. Note, however, that she left the follow-up question about hiding out in the forest, etc., unanswered. Not really relevant in her case, is it.

Finally, an interesting mystery in the second of those justanswer genealogy searches:

Name:
Wolf Woziwoda

Burial Plot:
KW 1
Burial Place:
Lódz, Piotrkow, Poland
Comments:
Street: Ulica Xvii, Side: Prawo (Right)
Cemetery Burials:
14586


I suppose it's possible that someone erected a memorial to Wolf after the war, and that's why the burial record appears, but what if he didn't die at Chelmno after all? (That assumes that it's the same Wolf Woziwoda, of course, and there's no saying how many of them there have been. He wasn't, at any rate, the one listed as born in 1920--not going by that photograph, lol.)

Anyway, thank you for sharing this with us, Armor105. As others have said already, I hope that your investigations won't prove a source of conflict with your family. I have to admit I feel a little nervous seeing all this here, but at the same time I can't help following along. It's been a fascinating thread.
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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Armor105 » 6 years 7 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:27 pm)

Kladderadatsch wrote:A small point, Armor105, but I suspect that there is only one submitter here, namely, Aunt Baia. The translated summary lists both Ruza and Baum under "Submitter's Last Name," but if you look at the actual memorial page, you'll see that Baum is written in the space for "Previous/maiden name." So it's Baia Ruza, nee Baum, and not the Baum sisters. YV no doubt has its own reasons for not distinguishing between maiden and married names (probably to make searches easier), but one result is that it may look sometimes like a single memorial was submitted by two people when it really was just one.


You are correct of course Klad...having taken a closer look at the form (and trying to remember how to read script hebrew from my sunday school days), the details of the author of the testimony at the bottom is my Aunts. First name Baia, surname Ruza, maiden name Baum, the city looks like...uhm...byt yzchk or something....dunno. And of course only one signatory.

Kladderadatsch wrote:The classification (as with just about everything in the YV names database) is a matter of self-reporting. Baia circled "Yes" (כן) on the form in response to the prompt "I am a Shoah survivor: Yes/No" and so that's what the record reflects. Note, however, that she left the follow-up question about hiding out in the forest, etc., unanswered. Not really relevant in her case, is it.


So, whether or not someone is a holocaust survivor is basically whether they say they are on a Yad Vashem form?

I wonder if this entitles them to funds?

Kladderadatsch wrote:I suppose it's possible that someone erected a memorial to Wolf after the war, and that's why the burial record appears, but what if he didn't die at Chelmno after all?


What if he never even went to Chelmno at all?

From the quotes I posted a page back, there seems to be plenty of likely other destinations far and wide.

Kladderadatsch wrote:Anyway, thank you for sharing this with us, Armor105. As others have said already, I hope that your investigations won't prove a source of conflict with your family. I have to admit I feel a little nervous seeing all this here, but at the same time I can't help following along. It's been a fascinating thread.


Truth is divisive. I will always search for truth. I wont let conflict get in the way of that. Truth is more important.

Mat 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Waiting for my mums next reply. She only checks her emails on Sundays. :)
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby borjastick » 6 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:58 am)

Armor, First of all let me show my grattitude to you for such an interesting and unique thread subject.

I wonder if you have any updates since before Christmas as some of the questions that you were hoping to get answers to were getting interesting. I also want to make a point about the Yad Vashem claims form. It seems to me the form was cleverly composed so as to allow anyone to state they are a survivor ergo a victim and as such claim compensation. I also guess, though I don't know, that for every financial claim made after the war by a 'survivor/victim' the state of Israel was given an extra amount or fee or took a percentage of the claimant's money. It's a bit of a stretch to say your mother was a survivor of the Holocaust, in my opinion, if she wasn't even aware of it.

As I have said before here, it is like my father who was born in Dublin, Ireland, in 1926 claiming to be a victim of the Irish Potato Famine some 46 odd years earlier. Yes his family were almost certainly affected by it but he wasn't a victim.

Do you know if your mother or other relatives received compo for their claims?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Armor105 » 6 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:14 pm)

Hello friend. Thank you for your kind words and interest in the topic.

Unfortunately the correspondence with my mum seems to have hit a wall on the subject.

She doesn't know anything more about the journey to and from Magnitogorsk cos she was too young.

She doesn't seem to be interested in answering my questions about how exactly she heard about Nazi gassings. I'm assuming her parents heard the rumors and she was just indoctrinated into the myth in communist Poland. When you consider that communism and Judaism are basically the same animal this is not surprising.

One part I find fascinating is that all able bodied men who fled into Soviet occupied territory were forced into the Red Army. Add to that those who died due to natural causes (including disease and starvation) in the Ukraine and where they settled in the Soviet Union, plus those who decided to stay rather than return to Poland.......this is a heck of a lot of missing people.

I will ask her about compensations and see what she says.

Thanks again for your interest.
Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Turpitz » 6 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:21 am)

Kingfisher wrote:David Milliband wrote in the Daily Mail:
My dad told me....Blah, blah, blah. I'm a victim, ouch! look at me everyone.


Prerequisite of, trying to dig ones grubby mitts into and clamber ones way into, the sordid world of, so-called 'politics':

In July 2004, during a radio interview on the BBC, Michael Howard (Hecht) claimed that his grandmother died at Auschwitz and that his aunt and uncle both survived, despite his aunt being sent to the gas chamber on 3 separate occasions. On one occasion the Nazis had apparently 'ran out of gas'

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Reinhard » 6 years 1 month ago (Thu May 23, 2013 10:57 am)

Balsamo wrote:
Armor105 wrote:Funny how, when you start to do your own research on WW2, you suddenly start to find out about events you never learn about in school.

I was just looking up 'Anders Army' and came across The 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland which I had never....bloomin'......heard about before....ever. It happened only 17 days after the German invasion of Poland from the West.


Well, as you mum said :
Don’t you know your history son?
:lol:

Anyway, thanks a lot for those minutes from you mum...though i might say it does not help to clear the fog
I was not aware that the "Anders Army" was active so far in the USSR...but as promised, i leave it there...


There is a book written by the commanding General Wladyslaw Anders, »An Army in Exile«:
http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0898390435
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
Orwell 1984

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Dolma » 5 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:46 am)

I just had to give this thread a bump.

With so much good information being presented here about what really happened to the jews (being sent to the east), this fits in nicely.

If you haven't read this yet, I strongly suggest you getrdone.

Here is one of my favorite quotes on this thread:

Armor105

One part I find fascinating is that all able bodied men who fled into Soviet occupied territory were forced into the Red Army. Add to that those who died due to natural causes (including disease and starvation) in the Ukraine and where they settled in the Soviet Union, plus those who decided to stay rather than return to Poland.......this is a heck of a lot of missing people.


and here is another:

Even before the war, the lot of the people exiled to the new industrial regions in the Urals and western Siberia was sad indeed. As elsewhere in the USSR, shoes and clothing were practically unavailable in 1939 already and in 1940 even bread was rationed. Hospitals consisted of barracks, were without running water, brutally hot in the summer, ice cold in the winter, rarely clean and always overcrowded. In 1938 still, only 25% of the population of Magnitogorsk was fortunate enough to live in houses, whereas 50% were crowded into barracks and other "temporarily Constructed houses" and 25% had to be satisfied with so-called "semlianki" (Tatar huts. etc.)." Into this region, deficient in even the most basic Civilian infrastructure, the Soviets deported shortly before and after the outbreak of hostilities untold millions of Russians, Jews, Ukrainians and other nationalities of the western Soviet Union.


and another:

MUM: My dad did not volunteer into the Red Army. I made a mistake. According to my sisters account all able bodied men were forced to go in the Russian army but 90% didn’t want to and found various excuses to avoid conscription.


That is sooooo typical. Tucking tail and running away and refusing to fight, yet the holohoax storyline would have us believe that they were the couragous ones.
Last edited by Dolma on Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby Dolma » 5 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:03 am)

Kladderadatsch wrote:

How did they [the jews] even escape the murderous clutches of the nazis in the first place?


Oh please - talk about denial. That's simply anti-German hate propaganda.

They "escaped" because the Germans deported them to the east - alive.

Kladderadatsch, do you deny that the jews were holocausted by the murderous Soviets / communists?
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:25 am)

Dolma wrote:With so much good information being presented here about what really happened to the jews (being sent to the east), this fits in nicely.

Here is one of my favorite quotes on this thread:

Armor105

One part I find fascinating is that all able bodied men who fled into Soviet occupied territory were forced into the Red Army. Add to that those who died due to natural causes (including disease and starvation) in the Ukraine and where they settled in the Soviet Union, plus those who decided to stay rather than return to Poland.......this is a heck of a lot of missing people.



Plus the statistical falsifications.

In 1961, during the Eichmann 'trial' in Israël, a map was published by Western newspapers and it was 'reported' on it that Poland had lost 800,000 Jews (1,300,000 minus 500,000) during WW2.

Image
(Colors added later - Green: regarded as former "major extermination camps" in 1961 and as simple concentration camps with no homicidal facilities today; Red: still regarded today as former "extermination camps" with homicidal facilities according to the 'Holocaust' narrative)

Today it's claimed on Wikipedia:

Of Poland's prewar Jewish population of 3,500,000, only about 50,000-120,000 would survive the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland


About 3.4 million Polish Jews dying in the 'Holocaust'....

Or in other words 2.6 million (3,400,000 minus 800,000) additional Polish Jews for the 'Holocaust' cult! Simply by inflating the numbers of Jews in prewar Poland and reducing the number of Jews in postwar Poland!

The quote "there are lies, damned lies and statistics" truer than ever...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby borjastick » 5 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:24 am)

Hermod your point of factual adjustment is very interesting. I wonder how the pre-war Polish jewish population can be considered so variously from 1.3m to 3.5m or thereabouts? The other key word for me in the Wiki current account is 'survive'. What do they mean by 'survive'. What they are alluding to is they all died as to survive would be not dead. But what they really mean is those people, if they were there at all pre war were not there after. That is a different thing altogether.

What is clear, if we needed it to be explained, is that the figures of victims and survivors in the holocaust have been adjusted up and down more often than a whore's knickers! These figures are moved to suit the argument currently being made by the believers.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Questions For My Mother

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:43 am)

borjastick wrote:Hermod your point of factual adjustment is very interesting. I wonder how the pre-war Polish jewish population can be considered so variously from 1.3m to 3.5m or thereabouts? The other key word for me in the Wiki current account is 'survive'. What do they mean by 'survive'. What they are alluding to is they all died as to survive would be not dead. But what they really mean is those people, if they were there at all pre war were not there after. That is a different thing altogether.


"Survive" is "survive". They didn't write "were still there after WW2", "didn't emigrate" or "came back after the war". That's not for nothing. They clearly imply about 3.4 million Polish Jews were killed by the Nazis. Try to write anti-Zionist information on Wikipedia and you'll see how fast your writings will be deleted.


What is clear, if we needed it to be explained, is that the figures of victims and survivors in the holocaust have been adjusted up and down more often than a whore's knickers!


:lol:


These figures are moved to suit the argument currently being made by the believers.


And the same believers seriously ask us "where did those 6 million Jews go?". What a joke.

"The only thing we know about Hitler is that he killed six million Jews who never existed in gas chambers which nobody ever saw." - French Jewish revisionist Roger Dommergues.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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