Transits through Chelmno

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Rankweil
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Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:20 pm)

What evidence do we have for them? Thanks!

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Hektor
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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hektor » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:27 pm)

For starters it's called transit camp in official documentation.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:38 pm)

IS that documentation available online?

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hektor » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:32 pm)

Rankweil wrote:IS that documentation available online?

Unfortunately I didn't find a scan online. But I have the text of one of those documents:
Wirtschaft-Verwaltungshauptamt
Berlin, 15. Juli 1943.
Licherfelde-West
Unter den Eichen 126-135
Zitatzeichen: PO/Fa.
Betr.: Durchgangslager Sobibor.
Bezug: Dort. Schreiben vom 5.7. RF/Bn 1674/43 Geh.
Rs.
An
Reichsführer-SS
Berlin


Reichsführer!
Gemäß ihrer obigen Anordnung soll das Durchgangslager Sobibor im
Distrikt Lublin in ein Konzentrationslager umgewandelt werden.

Ich habe mich mit SS.Gruppenführer Globocnik darüber unterhalten. Wir
beide schlagen Ihnen vor, die Umwandlung in ein Konzentrationslager
aufzugeben, weil der von Ihnen erstrebte Zweck, nämlich: in Sobibor
eine Entlaborisierungsanstalt für Beutemunition einzurichten, auch
ohne diese Umwandlung erreicht wird.

Alles andere in obiger Anordnung kann so bleiben. Ich bitte um Ihre
Zustimmung, die lediglich für Gruppenführer Globocnik und mich von
Bedeutung ist.

Heil Hitler
handschriftlich gez. Pohl
SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS
Durchgangslager Sobibor = transit camp Sobibor

As source Bundesarchiv Koblenz NS 19/1571 is given.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:46 pm)

Rankweil wrote:What evidence do we have for them? Thanks!

It is well documented that the Germans sent Jews out of the camps, why should Chelmno be any different?
The proof that they were sent elsewhere rests with the fact that it is certain they were not murdered, so therefore they were necessarily transited out. That is unless you have proof of extermination.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:52 pm)

Hektor: Thanks. This is excellent: documentary proof of Sobibor being called a transit camp. Similar evidence for CHelmno would be great.

Hannover: I understand what you're saying, but I'm already on your side.Saying things happened in a particular way requires some kind of proof. Imagine having this debate with an exterminationist though. It goes something like this.

Exterminationist: How can you 'deny' the Holocaust? There were death camps!

Hannover: THere were no 'death camps.' A lot of them were transit camps.

Ex: That's ridiculous

H: It's true.

Ex: What proof do you have?

H: We know there were transit camps because no one was exterminated there.

That's a textbook example of begging the question — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
Last edited by Rankweil on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:59 pm)

Also, I explained why Chelmno was different. Becuase the exterminationists claim no survivors from there (and Belzec).

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:03 pm)

No Rankweil, it is the Believers false assumption of 'Without proof we say the labor camps were death camps, therefore everyone sent to them was exterminated' which is the pretzel logic here. By not being able to prove 'extermination' the entire matter is basically irrelevant. They cannot produce a viable murder weapon, they cannot produce human remains as alleged in their absurd story. We're talking about alleged genocidal murder. Where is the proof? There is none.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:05 pm)

Rankweil wrote:Also, I explained why Chelmno was different. Becuase the exterminationists claim no survivors from there (and Belzec).

Once again, that is illogical. If they make the claim they must present the proof. Basic stuff, really.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:09 pm)

Rankweil wrote:Also, I explained why Chelmno was different. Becuase the exterminationists claim no survivors from there (and Belzec).

Being essentially a transit camp, stop over point, there would probably not be those claiming to be "survivors" 'Survived' what? Stopping at Chelmno? Laughable.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hektor » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:13 pm)

Oops, I see I gave you a document text for Sobibor, not Chelmno.
There is however reference made to Chelmo/Kulmhof as a transit camp:
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=WvBR ... no&f=false

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:15 pm)

For a demolition of the 'gas vans extermination' at Chelmno, see:
'Charles Stein Another "Holocaust Survivor"/ 'Gas Vans''
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7457

A must read here, free pdf:
'Carlo Mattogno: Chelmno—A German Camp in History and Propaganda'
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=23

- Hannover
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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:27 pm)

I don't see alot of people being convinced by the argument that these were transit camps and then having no documentation or witnesses to prove it. Maybe I"m wrong.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:16 pm)

Rankweil wrote:I don't see alot of people being convinced by the argument that these were transit camps and then having no documentation or witnesses to prove it. Maybe I"m wrong.

I specified why there would be no "witnesses". And again, the lack of Reichsbahn records is indicative of document removals, even empty train return trips would have records. There was a war on and the whereabouts of vital rail stock was crucial to that effort.

And it depends upon who you associate with, but indeed, I believe you are wrong. Remember, every Revisionist is a former Believer and our numbers are not getting any smaller.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Transits through Chelmno

Postby Rankweil » 6 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:16 pm)

I hope you're right


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