another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

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friedrichjansson
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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby friedrichjansson » 6 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:53 pm)

Hannover wrote:Friedrich:
The report participants have loaded all sorts of beliefs into this report which are not substantiated by the excavation itself. If that is not fraud, then what is?


This is quite commonplace. They are not writing the report to refute revisionism. They are writing the report within a paradigm in which the extermination of the Jews is assumed.

The report is not suited for a refutation of revisionism, but then neither is is most work within any paradigm. The division between work within a paradigm (which does not purport to prove the paradigmatic assumptions) and work outside of it (where those assumptions themselves are directly challenged) is not absolute, but it does help illustrate the issue.

I agree that Herr Muehlenkamp misrepresents the material.

I am merely challenging his overly complicated approach to a very simple issue.


I think Rankwell drastically overestimates the value of this report to anti-revisionist argument, and have made a few observations to that effect on the relevant thread. That said, he should be commended, not blamed, for bringing up the issue. Revisionism is improved by dealing with people who will play devil's advocate.

The situation reminds me of the disagreement between Mattogno and Faurisson - the latter being in favor of aggressive public argument, the former of a more careful and self-critical approach. Both methods have their proper place, but in a forum where revisionists talk to each other, we should always be at our most self-critical. For a case study of the effects of not allowing criticism, look at the imbecility of the holocaust orthodoxy.

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Hektor
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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby Hektor » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:40 am)

Paradigms would be visible in the conclusion. Let's assume I find those trinkets and perhaps some shallow graves at Treblinka. Normally this would be some archaeological remains of or near a camp, assuming that I date the finds into that era. No "extermination center" proved by that anyhow.

In the exterminationist paradigm I would however found the remains and possessions of Holocaust victims who were brought there to be killed. Sometimes they don't go that far. They simply present their extermination narrative and then show the trinkets and pictures to create an innuendo of authenticity.

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 6 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:12 am)

Image
Pit no.2 A fragment of cigarette case.

Let's translate:

To mr. Jozef Jakubowski
for being a 1-st in motorcycle gymkhana
on bike Sokol 600

.."Gordon-Bennet"
from A.R.Klinger
30.VIII.36


Jerzy

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby tomtruthteller » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:53 am)

Rankweil:

Know what I don't see? Bodies.

See my point yet?



No. It seems to me that you are arguing simply for the sake of argument.

Rankweil, do you believe the excavation that Hanover provided a link to is fraudulent or legitimate?

What about that article in Archaeology magazine that is also in that link. Do you believe that article is fraudulent or legitimate?

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:58 am)

Seems to me the Chelmno excavations were done under cover, in secret and without any intention of being scientific and thorough. They were as usual done for PR purposes so as to keep the holocaust in the news. Where are the detailed study reports of the physical excavation process, the photographical and video backup and of course the thousands of kilos of human remains that would be found if they had unearthed 150,000 bodies or parts thereof.

As for Sachsenhausen, where to start? http://www.sachsenhausen2012.blogspot.co.uk and ask yourself why was a supposedly perfect gas chamber destroyed by the east Germans (under the instruction no doubt of Moscow) before the iron curtain came down. Of course it can only be because the west would have seen right through the nonsense of it all. There is zero evidence that millions of jews were murdered there but I would guess that the 12000 bodies claimed in the NY Times article were those killed by the Russians after the war, if they were there at all.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby tomtruthteller » 6 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:10 am)

borjastick:

Seems to me the Chelmno excavations were done under cover, in secret and without any intention of being scientific and thorough. They were as usual done for PR purposes so as to keep the holocaust in the news. Where are the detailed study reports of the physical excavation process, the photographical and video backup and of course the thousands of kilos of human remains that would be found if they had unearthed 150,000 bodies or parts thereof.


Exactly, and that is what makes the "excavations" fraudulent. And also the reason why Rankweil wouldn't aswer my questions.

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Hektor
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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby Hektor » 6 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:37 am)

borjastick wrote:....Of course it can only be because the west would have seen right through the nonsense of it all. There is zero evidence that millions of jews were murdered there but I would guess that the 12000 bodies claimed in the NY Times article were those killed by the Russians after the war, if they were there at all.

That's the issue with many of those finds. Where did they originated from? Some finds of corpses and remains are apparently attributed to ethnic Germans.

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby ralphsteiner » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:12 am)

Hektor wrote:
borjastick wrote:....Of course it can only be because the west would have seen right through the nonsense of it all. There is zero evidence that millions of jews were murdered there but I would guess that the 12000 bodies claimed in the NY Times article were those killed by the Russians after the war, if they were there at all.

That's the issue with many of those finds. Where did they originated from? Some finds of corpses and remains are apparently attributed to ethnic Germans.


I believe the matter of authenticity is alwasys a key point in any archaelogical find.

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby Hannover » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:28 pm)

I believe the matter of authenticity is always a key point in any archaelogical find.

Certainly true. In the case of the 'holocaust' fable, there hasn't been any 'finds' which confirm what people are forced to accept. And according to the racist thinking of Jewish supremacist 'Roberto Muehlenkamp', we must believe the impossible ... because racist Jewish Supremacists demand it.

"The truth is irrelevant", said the judge.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: another embarrassing 'excavation' / Chelmno

Postby Thames Darwin » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:59 am)

I didn't think Muehlenkamp was a Jew.


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