Best resources on the "numbers" ?

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sehnsucht
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Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby sehnsucht » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:58 am)

I keep running up against the numbers when discussing the "holocaust" with people.
Both in discussions of numbers of Jews killed and Jews survival.

Responses like -- "Well if it wasn't 6 million, it was certainly millions. What difference
does it make ? It was still a holocaust. Where did all the Jews go then ?"

What are the best resources that are available that show how many Jews were
killed by or in the care of the Nazis in WWII ? I would like to order these materials.

thanks !

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borjastick
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby borjastick » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:39 am)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6811

This earlier post of mine discusses numbers as declared by the Red Cross. There are plenty of posts here on the subject. There is a very interesting post on Polish jews missing or not. Your experience of running up against the old chestnut, 'well it was millions so it doesn't really matter about the exact number.' is of course just a cop out for those who know that the holocaust claims are bunkum or those who simply are not so well read on the matter but wish to believe the 'truth'.

It matters very much about the truth and the figures are of course central to that knowledge. Try investigating the jewish offical world jewry numbers before and after the war, you will see various articles on google and here and of course your reading matter should perhaps include Thomas Dalton's Debating the Holocaust and other key works.

The 'where did they go' argument is flawed from top to bottom as it starts with the assumption they were there and then were not there (that the six million figure is correct and so how do we account for them in reality?). Plenty to get your teeth into on this area too. Borders changed, people died, people relocated to russia or Russian states after the war, the iron curtain stopped people coming back, many jews changed their name so as to appear western, and of course hundreds of thousands left europe in the run up to the war.

It's an important subject and easy to get to the bottom of. I am sure you will enjoy it.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Hektor
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Hektor » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:56 am)

sehnsucht wrote:....
Responses like -- "Well if it wasn't 6 million, it was certainly millions. What difference
does it make ? It was still a holocaust. Where did all the Jews go then ?"

If only one Jew was killed, that would have created the same guilt.
sehnsucht wrote:....
What are the best resources that are available that show how many Jews were
killed by or in the care of the Nazis in WWII ? I would like to order these materials.

It's dubious that only one Jew was killed as the result of a policy to kill Jews only because there were Jews. People were however interned for that reason. And Politruks were shot, when they were Jewish in the rear of the Eastern front. To explain this to ordinary people is however difficult, since they aren't sober on the issue, but get a "moral outrage", which is however nothing but an emotional, mental block to process information rationally. But let's face it, Hitler didn't make it too easy for us, since he indeed used words like "vernichten" and "ausrotten" in the same sentences/paragraphs with Jews. Rhetorics are however a different matter from real policy and there the documents use a significantly different language that is backed up by real life action.

The first question should be how many Jews were ever in German custody during the 12 years.

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Kingfisher
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:11 am)

Hektor wrote:The first question should be how many Jews were ever in German custody during the 12 years.

Perhaps you mean under German control or administration, rather than in custody, which, to me at least, means captive.

1. They did not have to be in custody to be killed.
2. Many under German control were neither in custody nor killed: e.g. most French Jews and the German Jews who left before internment.

friedrichjansson
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby friedrichjansson » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:18 am)

The most important revisionist treatment of demographic statistics is still Walter Sanning's "The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry." There are points on which it has to be corrected, but it's still a very valuable resource. Read it critically, but certainly read it.

I don't know of an English copy online, but there are German copies on the internet archive - e.g. http://archive.org/details/Sanning-Walt ... ntums-Scan

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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:11 am)

There's a summary of Sanning and a comparison with his Orthodox critic Benz by Germar Rudolf in Dissecting the Holocaust (starting page 181), which can be downloaded from Holocaust Handbooks.

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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:12 pm)

An article by Juergen Graf from 2001: http://rense.com/general47/sixml.htm Jewish Population Losses In The German Sphere Of Influence During World War II. An Examination Of The Known, Provable Data

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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby friedrichjansson » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:22 pm)

Here's brief treatment of numbers from Dalton's book "Debating the Holocaust" (previously posted by Kingfisher).

http://www.2shared.com/file/S6hBcSva/Dalton.html.

The password is "codoh".

These JTA articles are of considerable interest - not as giving a final number, but as illustrating one of the factors that has to be included in any count:
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... -jews.html


It should be emphasized that there is no way to get absolutely exact numbers out of the available demographic information.

EtienneSC
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby EtienneSC » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:59 pm)

Paul Rassinier's later writings are also informative.

Jotun
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Jotun » 6 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:45 am)

Raul Hilberg numbers in The destruction of the European jew. This is the answer to thread starter.

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Hannover
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:12 pm)

Jotun wrote:Raul Hilberg numbers in The destruction of the European jew. This is the answer to thread starter.

But Hilberg claims the "destruction" of European Jews. Can you offer us proof that they were destroyed as alleged?

It curious that anyone would cite Hilberg for anything.
'fraudulent historian Hilberg exposed in court'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=100&p=43350

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Zulu
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Zulu » 6 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:19 pm)

sehnsucht wrote:I keep running up against the numbers when discussing the "holocaust" with people.
Both in discussions of numbers of Jews killed and Jews survival.

Responses like -- "Well if it wasn't 6 million, it was certainly millions. What difference
does it make ? It was still a holocaust. Where did all the Jews go then ?"

What are the best resources that are available that show how many Jews were
killed by or in the care of the Nazis in WWII ? I would like to order these materials.

There is a good stuff on that topic. Paper prepared for The Tehran Conference on The Holocaust 11-12th December, 2006
The Holocaust Demography by Jan Bernhoff
http://www.bernhoff.se/holocaust_demography.pdf

Lohengrin
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Lohengrin » 6 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:11 pm)

Sehnsucht: "What are the best resources that are available that show how many Jews were
killed by or in the care of the Nazis in WWII ? I would like to order these materials."

In all modesty, one of the best resources for this on this forum is my posting "Ten Proofs Against 'Six Million Jews Murdered' in Holocaust". http://www.forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.p ... 28&p=46112

It gives 10 separate proofs and more, why "Six Million" is Talmudic nonsense and the real number of Jews missing in WWII.

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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:54 pm)

when asked:
Where did all the Jews go then ?

My reply is: 'The holocaust storyline says they went into mass graves. Can you show me the excavations of these mass graves?'

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Lohengrin
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Re: Best resources on the "numbers" ?

Postby Lohengrin » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:55 pm)

When asked:
"Where did all the Jews go then ?"

My answer is: "If not more than 1,5 million Jews were missing (not "murdered"!) after 4 years of War, why should the Germans have used 'gas chambers'? Such a death-rate was similar for most other victim groups, being Russian POW, Stalingrad POW, non-Jewish deportees, 'slave laborers', etc.
A death-rate of 90% in 3-4 years for all these groups was "normal" in this terrible War. "Gas chambers" and "mass graves" were not required at all.


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