Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:40 am)

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Hungarian-born Jew Max Hitter, sent to Auschiwtz in 1944

On his first night in Auschwitz, 15- year-old Max Hitter saw tall flames rising from a chimney.

He was alone that night, peering through a window in the barracks. He saw a chimney pouring fire over a building where guards had led his mother and three younger sisters earlier that day. Weeks later, Max had seen plenty of smoke, but not a single Jew, leave that building.

We know this, because Hitter wrote it down, finally, in 1989, after 44 years during which he barely mentioned the war. He was moved to write after reading a document by a group called the "revisionists", who recalled a different Holocaust to the one Hitter remembered. Six million Jewish dead was a fabrication, and so were the ovens.

"Writing wrongs of the Holocaust" by Jonathan Swan,
The Sydney Morning Herald , April 30, 2012
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/obituaries/writing-wrongs-of-the-holocaust-20120429-1xssm.html#ixzz2tZB35IwV
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:55 am)

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Diabolical Math

The tattoo on David Shentow’s arm reveals the simple but diabolical math behind the Nazi plan of extermination at Auschwitz.

David Shentow was born in Warsaw, Poland, on April 29, 1925. His family moved to Antwerp, Belgium, when he was six weeks old.

In 1942, he was deported with his father to a Nazi slave labour camp near Dieppe, France, where he encountered boys and men who in six weeks had become emaciated, haggard, and covered with lice, bruises, and wounds from beatings.

From there, David was transported to Auschwitz. He was stripped naked, shaved head to toe, and then the final humiliation: a tattoo; to this day David carries the number 72585 on his left forearm. Asking what it meant, he was told he was the 72,585th prisoner at the camp. David said, “My G-d, how many prisoners are at this camp?” A man responded, “30,000.” “Well,” David continued, “If there are 72,000, where are the rest of them?’ The man pointed at the chimney, which was spewing flames and soot 24 hours a day.

http://www.yadvashem.ca/pages/education/survivors/survivor_DavidShentow.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:05 am)

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Czech Jew Arno Erban on arriving at Birkenau:

One object immediately caught our eyes. It was an immense square chimney, built of red bricks. It was like a two story building and looked like a strange factory chimney. We saw enormous tongues of flame coming from its square top. Somebody told us that, what we saw, was a crematorium. Later we saw the second and third one with the same flames.

Auschwitz, by Arno Erban, 2003
http://acscc.org/Papers/erbanpapers.html

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:26 pm)

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http://en.ww2awards.com/person/544#top

The famous Belgian war hero Albert Guérisse testified under his alias Patrick A. O'Leary about witnessing a flaming chimney whilst held prisoner at Natzweiler-Struthof. He testified at the post-war trial on May 30, 1946.

This surely deserves a mention, as it's the only example that I know, of a flaming crematorium chimney being thoroughly discussed at one of the victor's trials :

Major Hunt: (prosecutor) Where are you stationed at the moment?:

Lieut.-Commander O'Leary: London.

Where were you in September, 1944?

I was a prisoner in Natzweiler Concentration Camp.

Do you remember seeing any women in the camp?

I remember having seen four women at the end of July, 1944, in Natzweiler Concentration Camp.

Can you tell the Court the circumstances under which you saw them?

I saw the four women, at least one of them, in the cell where she had been gaoled.

Did you see them arrive?

Yes, I saw them walking down the camp on their way to the cells.

Were you able to speak to one or any of them?

Yes, I spoke to one of them.

Tell the Court what transpired at this conversation?

At the end of the afternoon of the day the women arrived, a Dutch doctor who was in charge of the block which was next to mine told me that I would be able to speak to one of the women who had been gaoled in the hut which was opposite his. So at about seven o'clock in the evening I went to the hut where the Dutchman lived, went to the window, whistled, and saw a woman appear at a window in her cell. I told her, "I am a British officer." I asked her, "Who are you?" She said, "I am British." She said, "I am British." She wished me the best of luck and I wanted to keep on talking but unfortunately the S.S. appeared, a guard.

You mean that owing to the presence of guards you were unable to continue the conversation?

Yes.

Do you recall further events of that particular day?

Later in the evening, at about nine o'clock, an order was given that none of the prisoners in the camp was allowed out of his hut and that nobody was allowed to be seen at the windows of the huts ; so we knew that something very unusual was going to happen.

Had that order been issued previously or was it subsequently?

As far as I know it was the first time such an order was issued at the camp.

Did you subsequently on that evening have any opportunity to see any of these women again?

Yes, when the night came I went to the window of my hut and I saw one woman coming out of the gaol and going to the crematorium. With her were S.S. men with torches.

Were you able to recognize any of the guards?

No, but a little before nine o'clock, a little before this took place, I saw Rohde, who was with the former doctor of the camp and this doctor was in civilian clothes; I saw them both going to the crematorium.

Were they alone when they were proceeding to the crematorium?

Yes.

Did you see anybody else going to the crematorium that night?

I saw S.S. officers going to the crematorium and S.S. guards.

You were describing just now how you saw a woman under guard moving in the direction of the crematorium. Did you see anything else of this sort?

I saw first the woman with the S.S. men going to the crematorium. A little later from my window I could watch flames coming out of the chimney of the crematorium.

Was this a usual occurrence to observe these flames?

Yes. When the door of the oven was opened in the crematorium the flames used to come out of the chimney.

Did you see only one woman or more than one woman proceeding to the crematorium?

1 saw the four women going to the crematorium but one after another.

At what intervals did they go one after another; or was there an interval between each one?

Well, they went one after the other — two or three minutes — one went, and two or three minutes later another went.

This question of the flames coming out of the chimney ; was that momentarily only, or was it continuously appearing?

I did not know when that appeared what it meant, but the next morning the morning the German prisoner in charge of the crematorium explained to me that each time the door of the oven was opened the flames came out of the chimney and that meant a body had been put in the crematorium.

Do you remember how many times you saw this that night—that is the flames?

I saw the flames four times.

Do you remember or would you recognize the prisoner who told you about this procedure?

I think so.

Do you recognize him here?

Yes, the little man there with dark hair (witness identified Berg).


War Crimes Trials Volume 5: The Natzweiler Trial , London: Hodge & Co., 1949, pp. 75-76.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:06 pm)

I've already posted Raul Hilberg's musing on the flaming chimney's from the original edition of his book:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé @ Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

Below is Barbara Kulaszka's description of Hilberg's appearance in the first Zuendel trial, where she quotes his testimony verbatim:

Christie turned to page 626 of Hilberg's book, The Destruction of the European Jews, and the following passage:

Most of the Birkenau arrivals saw great flames belching from the chimneys...

Do you believe that is true?, asked Christie.

"Yes. As a matter of fact, in my second edition -- ," said Hilberg.

I suggest to you, said Christie, that it cannot reasonably be true, in that crematorium chimneys do not belch flames. In fact, no chimney can belch flames without burning up very quickly. Did you consider that?

"Let me simply say," said Hilberg, "that there are many accounts of substantially similar nature of the same phenomenon, not only by survivors, but by persons in and in the vicinity of Auschwitz... I cannot characterize the nature of what they saw myself, because I have not seen it myself."

Do you believe those accounts?, asked Christie.

"They are mentioned by several survivors. They were mentioned by railway personnel. They were mentioned by German personnel associated with the industrial complex not very close to Birkenau," said Hilberg.

Could you name the names, please?, asked Christie.

"Well, today Wiesel is another survivor, making a similar description in his book," said Hilberg. (5-1160) Hilberg agreed that Elie Wiesel was the president of the Holocaust Memorial Council by appointment of the President of the United States.

Do you want to name any others who saw the flames belching from the chimneys?, asked Christie.

"Well, there are a number of people. Now I would be hard-put to give you their names, but there are a number of people, as I said, belonging to the railway organization," said Hilberg.

I am interested in the name, said Christie. Generalities are of no value to me.

"Yes. But I did not come prepared with all of the names, there being thousands of them."

Yes, thousands, said Christie.

"Some of which, however, are in print. If you have the German edition of my work, I will show them to you."

Christie indicated he would make an attempt to get the German edition of the book.


Barbara Kulaszka, 'Did Six Million Really Die?' Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel – 1988 , Samisdat, 1992, pp. 169-170.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:17 pm)

Another German denying having seen the flaming chimneys:

[Thies] Christophersen knew Birkenau had crematories and had seen them from the outside. (20- 4947) But he never saw smoke or flames shooting out of the chimneys nor did he ever smell the alleged stench of human bodies. (20-4948) He did not know the number of crematories. (21-5005) He only heard about the gas chamber allegation after the war. (20-4949)

Barbara Kulaszka, 'Did Six Million Really Die?' Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel – 1988 , Samisdat, 1992, p. 379.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:06 pm)

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We've got Czech gentile Vera Lasker already, but this alternative description of the flaming chimneys is too good to be overlooked:

The fires of the crematoria soared without letup twenty-four hours a day. At times the chimneys cracked from overheating and had to be reinforced with steel bands. Inside, their walls were covered with human fat inches deep. When the going was good that the gas chambers and crematoria could not handle the volume, people had to dig their own graves, undress for clothing should not be wasted — and be machine gunned; or bodies were tossed from the gas chambers into ditches and incinerated on pyres in the open air, permeating our nostrils with the stench of of burning flesh and bones. The soot from the chimneys was constantly covering us, as a last caress by those who had gone before us. The flames of the crematoria were shooting high into the air, covering the night sky with a constant glow. The sun was often obscured by the thick, choking smoke that spread a depressing cover over the already gray surroundings: our gray sack dresses, gray blocks, gray dust, turning with the rain into gray mud under our wooden clogs.

— Vera Laska, survivor, historian.

Quoted in: Days of Remembrance of the Victims of the Holocaust: A Department of Defense Guide for Commemorative Observance , U.S. Dept. of Defense, International Center for Holocaust Studies (U.S.), United States Holocaust Memorial Council, 1989, p.45.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:04 am)

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Gold watch sonderkommando Filip Müller discussing crematorium 5 at Birkenau:

It was a longish room, perhaps 160 square metres in area, and it was shrouded in acrid smoke and fumes. In the middle stood two big rectangular oven complexes, each of which had four burning chambers. Between the ovens were the generators which lit the fire and kept it going. The coke fuel was brought in in wheelbarrows. The raging flames rushed into the open air through two underground conduits which connected the ovens with the massive chimneys. The force and heat of the flames were so great that the whole room rumbled and trembled.

Filip Müller, Helmut Freitag; Susanne Flatauer (trans.), Auschwitz Inferno: The Testimony of a Sonderkommando , London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 95.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby PotPie » 6 years 4 months ago (Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:27 pm)

Mueller is a lying POS. I was told once by a holocaust believer on a discussion forum to buy a Sonderkommando memoir. The result of that led me to write a 32-page essay thoroughly outing Filip Mueller as a total liar. I had at first thought he was probably a real worker there but exaggerated what he saw. No, rather, he made it all up. Career liars can't keep their stories straight, and he's no exception.

http://codoh.com/library/document/635

What a scumbag. :bootyshake:

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:09 pm)

After recently re-reading what Hilberg claimed at the Zuendel trial:

Do you want to name any others who saw the flames belching from the chimneys?, asked Christie.

"Well, there are a number of people. Now I would be hard-put to give you their names, but there are a number of people, as I said, belonging to the railway organization," said Hilberg.

I am interested in the name, said Christie. Generalities are of no value to me.

"Yes. But I did not come prepared with all of the names, there being thousands of them."

Yes, thousands, said Christie.

"Some of which, however, are in print. If you have the German edition of my work, I will show them to you."

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=63592#p63592


I checked the latest English edition of his tome, hoping that it might include additional tales of flaming chimneys that he implied were in the 1982 German edition of his book, but no, nothing. Here's the only mention of flaming chimneys I know of in his original and final editions:

Most of the Birkenau arrivals saw flames belching from the chimneys and smelled the strange, sickening odor of the "bakery" (crematoriums).[32]

Hilberg, DotEJ, 1961, p.626

At Birkenau, illusion was the rule. It was not always simple or possible, inasmuch as at least some of the deportees had observed the sign Auschwitz as the train passed through the railway yards,[73] or had seen flames belching from the chimneys, or had smelled the strange, sickening odor of crematoria.[74]"

Hilberg, DotEJ, 2003, p.1038


In both editions the source for the flaming chimneys is: "Lengyel, Five Chimneys, p.22"
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=56598#p56598
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:31 pm)

PotPie wrote:Mueller is a lying POS. I was told once by a holocaust believer on a discussion forum to buy a Sonderkommando memoir. The result of that led me to write a 32-page essay thoroughly outing Filip Mueller as a total liar. I had at first thought he was probably a real worker there but exaggerated what he saw. No, rather, he made it all up. Career liars can't keep their stories straight, and he's no exception.

http://codoh.com/library/document/635

What a scumbag. :bootyshake:


Congrats. on that article PotPie I read it the other day for the first time. It's excellent.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:01 pm)

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Linda Breder (marked with two X's) says a German photographer ordered prisoners to smile while their pictures were taken.


Slovakian-born Jew Linda Breder, "who was the 173rd Jewish woman to enter Auschwitz."

She holds her head in her hands and cries as she remembers the crematory. "It was burning day and night. The flames were so high. Fat-ashes fell on the camp. We were always smeared ... our faces ..."

Auschwitz memories haunt survivors
Julian Guthrie
San Francisco Chronicle , Thursday, January 27, 2005
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Auschwitz-memories-haunt-survivors-and-a-2735507.php#page-3



Image

For the article the journalist also interviewed a former Soviet soldier who claimed to have liberated Auschwitz: professor of mechanical and agricultural engineering Naum Reznik, who moved to the US in 1986:

Prisoners told Reznik stories about the camp. They spoke in Polish and Hungarian and repeatedly asked: "What will happen to us? Where will we go? Where will we find refuge?"

Reznik said that an old man, dressed only in thin, striped pajamas, had taken him on a tour of the camp. The man said he would not leave the camp. He wanted to die where his wife and daughter had perished.

"This old man was our guide," Reznik said. "We saw barns that were the crematoriums. The Polish man wouldn't walk in there, but we did. There were slats on the floor where gas came out.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Auschwitz-memories-haunt-survivors-and-a-2735507.php#page-2
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby friedrichjansson » 6 years 4 months ago (Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:34 am)

First, thanks to the Black Rabbit of Inle for his extensive work on this subject, which has collected more chimney-flame testimonies than I ever expected to find.

Natzweiler and 1945 testimonies were mentioned; there is one account that fits in both of these boxes. H.R. Weller reported seeing chimney flames at Natweiler:

6. The whole camp was evacuated about September 10, 1944, and for two or three days previous to the evacuation I noted from my window in the hospital block that the Crematorium was working day and night, and during the night the flames could be seen shooting about six feet high from the chimneys. I also heard shots and cries and a large number of trucks coming and going and I was told that they were rounding up and killing large numbers of Local F.F.I. personnel.


[from WO 311/55, dated 8 Nov 1945]

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 4 months ago (Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:28 am)

Thank you Friedrichjansson.

I fear we've have but merely scratched the surface If Hilberg was being truthful about "there being thousands of them."

:wink:
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hannover » 6 years 4 months ago (Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:04 pm)

Using the same absurd logic that certain 'academics' use for the laughable gas chambers:

'It is not necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such flaming chmneys were possible. It was technically possible since they took place. Such is the point of departure required of any historical enquiry on the subject. This truth obliges us to state quite simply: there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence of flaming chimneys.'

:lol:

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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