Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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TheBlackRabbitofInlé
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 1 month ago (Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:42 am)

Zulu has already posted Kitty Hart's flaming chimneys
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=56499#p56499

But I'll just add that Robert Jan van Pelt quoted her on the flaming chimneys (and an SS man keeping Zyklon B in a bag in his pocket!) in a book he co-wrote before becoming the no.1 Auschwitz expert:

No wonder he defends the flaming chimneys.
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=63411#p63411
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=62655#p62655


Image
enlarged version

Robert Jan Van Pelt, Carroll William Westfall, Architectural Principles in the Age of Historicism, New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1993 (Org. 1991), p. 350.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 month ago (Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:56 pm)

Thanks to Paul Eisen for sending me this one:
Reading and listening to this, there are only two possible conclusions. Either Mr Schwartz is a complete fraud who hasn't been within a couple of hundred miles of Auschwitz or he's broadly telling his story but, through either deceit or delusion,with bits added.
Either way and for all kinds of reasons, it makes fascinating and thought-provoking reading/listening and Mr Schwartz has definitely found a great hobby for his latter years. http://pauleisen.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/eitheror.html



All the usual derivative cliches: didn't talk about it for 65 years, babies snatched from mother's arms, lying about his age (the other children "wind up in the crematorium), Dr Mengele, the bullet that went in through the neck and out through the cheek but didn't do any serious harm, the woman who threw him bread over the wire, and... the flaming chimney:
We arrived midnight in Birkenau, and the SS came up, everybody out, everybody out, leave everything behind. And I was confused. My mom was holding her six-month-old little baby, Eva, and my sister was next to her. And I did not know what to do. Shall I go with my stepfather, or shall I go with my mom? But when I looked up, and I saw this fire burning in front of me, coming out of a chimney, it was a very frightening thing for me to see. So, the line was moving slowly, and where the ladies were, there was a lot of screaming, where babies were immediately taken away from the mother's arm, which of course, my poor mother's six-month-old little girl was taken, and that kind of frightened me.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby HeiligeSturm » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:30 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Image

Steven Spielberg's Schindler's List perhaps?



Yes it is. From that famous "based on true story" movie about the Jews by the Jews for the Jews.


TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
The screaming was so loud so the orchestra was playing so that people will not know. Or you saw the tall chimneys, not smoke but flames, human flesh.

- Polish Jew Sherman Ray, Auschwitz-Birkenau survivor, from 4:50 on the video




This is exactly what they filmed for The Grey Zone.
The movie is like correction to former eyewitness claims.
Sonderkommando unit wears gas masks (like in Uwe Boll's Auschwitz)
vlcsnap-2013-01-09-22h28m44s221.png

Gas Chamber is washed with hose and then painted while the chimneys are belching flames.
vlcsnap-2012-04-16-06h46m35s115.png
The Grey Zone (2001) Gas Chamber painted
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 1 month ago (Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:08 pm)

Image

Greek Jew Esthir Cohen

“The last time I saw my parents was on the railway platform in Auschwitz, where we were separated. I remember that as they were driven away in the back of a truck, they shouted out, ‘Girls, defend your honor.’ One day when our heads were being shaved by one of the prisoners, she asked me what had become of my parents. I said that I didn’t know. She pointed to the flames coming out of the crematorium and said, ‘There they are, burning.’”


‘Not a single neighbor even peeked through the curtains,’ says Holocaust survivor
By Stavros Tzimas
ekathimerini.com, Friday March 7, 2014
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite6_1_07/03/2014_537966
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:40 am)

Czech Jew Armand Otto Jakubovic who in June 1944 hoodwinked Mengele into believing he was a 17 year old professional gardener, despite being just a 15 yr old school-boy

So we marched past Mengele just in our clothing, with nothing, not a knapsack between us.

The other line, that went the infirm way, we later learned went more or less straight into the gas chambers. The pretence was that they had to strip in front of a shower area, they were herded into the so-called "showers," the doors were sealed behind them, and instead of water coming out and soap being provided to wash, what came out was some lethal gas, and they were gassed and eventually burned.

It was fairly obvious that it was a hive of activity because literally from the tall chimney in the crematorium flames leaped out to several metres height above the chimney top, and the whole place was full of smell of burning flesh, skin, a bit like a smithy gone wrong.

(Video 2 of 4, starting at 13:20)

One of the memories I have, is that quite a few people despaired. It was enough just to look and the chimney and the flames constantly issuing out of them.

(Video 2 of 4, starting at 20:40)


Imperial War Museum Interview June 19, 1996
Catalogue number: 16695
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80016161


I've previously posted an magazine article quoting this guy:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=63016#p63016
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 1 month ago (Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:04 pm)

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4651302.stm

Czech Jew Anna Bergman who was deported from Auschwitz in 1944 and sent further east to build anti-tank trenches whilst staying in a temporary camp made up of just tents with approximately 1000 other women—mentions that there was another similar camp very close by.

And we arrived on that famous ramp in Auschwitz. You know what I'm talking about. And by the time we passed through that entrance, and we were there. There were these chimneys spewing smoke and fire. (@ 05:50 on video 3/6)

And these flames you know; I couldn't go around steelworks which are very near around here, near Newport, for years I couldn't go around there because they were spewing fire. I still can't. But you didn't know what it was. (@ 07:50 on video 3/6)


Imperial War Museum interview May 2, 2004
Catalogue number 26752
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80024468
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 7 years 4 weeks ago (Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:56 pm)

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3161273.stm

Russian gentile Zoe Polanska Palmer, survivor of Auschwitz and Operation Keelhaul, watched the belching flames of Birkenau from Auschwitz I.

David Irving, apparently, submitted and subsequently withdrew an affidavit sworn by Polanska-Palmer February 2001 to the British Appeal Court following his defeat against Lipstadt et al. In the affidavit Polanska-Palmer apparently claimed the Birkenau gas chambers were just a rumour. You can read Harry Mazal's partisan account here:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/irving-david/polanska/

Then, one day, he came over to his usual place behind the barbed wire and threw a little bundle across to my side: it contained his shirt and a pair of shoes. In his quiet voice he said, 'I won't need them any more. My parents are already in the gas chambers and tomorrow when you see the flames from the chimneys it will be my turn. . . and I will be thinking of you.' I turned away in sorrow and held the tiny bundle close to my heart with a prayer — I had no tears left. I never saw Mishek again. (p. 61)
Silently, we watched the trucks pass by, heading in the direction of Birkenau. The most dreadful cries were carried through the air as each shouted out his name, in the hope that someone might pass it on to his relatives. Vovka Breznew was one of the lucky ones: I met him later in the washroom where he told me how he and ten others had been hidden by the Polish men and thus escaped selection. That evening, our barrack was full of weeping mothers whose thoughts were with their children. No one slept that night; we watched the flames belching from the chimneys. Like the waves in the sea, life expectancy in Auschwitz was unpredictable. (p.62)

Zoé Polanska-Palmer, Yalta Victim, Edinburgh: Mainstream Publishing Co., 1986.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Nap » 7 years 1 week ago (Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:39 pm)

Elisa Springer, an italian jewess deported to Auschwitz in august 1944 says:

Tremando di paura, fissavamo la fiamma viva che raggiungeva il cielo e lo illuminava a giorno: tutta l'acqua che scese su Birkenau, quella notte, non fu sufficiente a spegnere quella fiamma.

Shivering with fear we gazed at the living flame which reached the sky and enlightened it just like daylight: all the rain that fell on Birkenau, that night, did not succeed in quenching that flame.

Il silenzio dei vivi. All'ombra di Auschwitz, un racconto di morte e di resurrezione [The silence of the living ones. In the shade of Auschwitz, a story about death and resurrection], Marsilio Editore, Venezia [Venice], pages 67-68, as quoted in Carlo Mattogno, Olocausto: dilettanti a convegno, september 2002, Genova [Genoa], pages 138-39.


I have seen that friedrichjannson already talked about Nyiszli, but I will add more.
The version is: Auschwitz. A doctor's eyewitness account, with a foreword by Bruno Bettelheim, translated by Tibère Kremer and Richard Seaver, Dr. Miklos Nyiszli, Arcade Publishing, New York, 1993.

  • enormous tongues of flame rising between the lighting rods. (page 18)
  • whose chimneys were spewing the same flames. (ibidem)
  • in the shadow of the immense stack, which never ceased spewing tongues of flame. (page 37)
  • at the end of the courtyard, an enormous red brick building and a chimney spitting flame. (page 39)
  • I glanced in the direction of numbers two, three and four [recte: III, IV and V]: their chimneys were spewing flame and smoke. Business as usual. (page 68)
  • throughout the night the chimneys of numbers one and two crematoriums sent flames roaring skyward, so that the entire camp was lighted with a sinister glow. (pages 131-32)
  • The women asked me [...] ["] what was the smoke you saw pouring from the chimneys during the day, and the flames that replaced it at night?["] (page 142)
  • their eyes invariably turned towards the flames belching from the crematorium stacks. (page 152)

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:16 pm)

I see or hear (He's actually screaming, unfortunately I don't know how to download the audio yet ) that Oswald Kaduc also tells a story about flames:
Angeklagter Kaduk:

Na ja, Eindruck hatte man, wie ich Ihnen gesagt habe. Als ich in Auschwitz ankam, ich kam auf den Bahnhof, da hatten Sie schon einen guten Eindruck gehabt. Es war ja so gewesen, Herr Präsident: Wenn draußen die Öfen gebrannt haben, da war so eine Stichflamme von fünf Metern. Fünf Meter hoch. Der ganze Bahnhof war voll von Zivilisten. Es hat niemand was gesagt. Es sind Urlauberzüge gekommen und haben in Auschwitz auf dem Bahnhof gestanden.

Ich hatte damals was zu tun gehabt. Meine Frau wollte damals kommen, wollte mir Wäsche bringen. Und ich habe sie gleich wieder abgeschoben, habe gesagt: »Fahr' zurück, ich habe viel zu tun. Ich habe keine Zeit für dich.« Und da hat sie mir nur geantwortet: »Wieso denn das? Du bist ja, Vati, meistens betrunken, wenn ich herkomme. Mit dir kann man überhaupt nicht reden.« Ich habe ihr auch gar nix gesagt.

Da waren doch Urlauberzüge gewesen am Bahnhof, die hatten einen Aufenthalt gehabt. Da war so eine schlechte Windverbindung gewesen, grade kam es alles auf den Bahnhof. Da war der ganze Bahnhof vernebelt. Die Wehrmachtsoffiziere und die anderen Kameraden von der Wehrmacht, die haben aus dem Fenster rausgeguckt und haben immer gezogen, und manche haben gesagt: »Hier riecht es so sauer und so süß.« Da haben sie die Fenster zugemacht. Keiner hat den Mut gehabt und muß doch gesagt haben: »Was ist denn hier eigentlich los in Auschwitz? Hier ist doch keine Zuckerfabrik oder keine Schokoladenfabrik gebaut worden. Was soll das mit den Schornsteinen?«

Auch die Alliierten haben es gewußt, als sie über Auschwitz rübergeflogen sind. Ich meine, man brauchte ja damals nur die Bahnverbindung in Schutt und Asche schmeißen. Man brauchte gar nicht mal die Öfen... Dann wäre es passiert gewesen. Denn wir hatten ja kein Benzin gehabt, um dann die Häftlinge... Aber die haben zugeguckt. Und darum nehme ich an, daß vielleicht das Dritte Reich ein Kapital schlagen wollte [aus] den Juden, sagen wir, mit den Juden. Und deswegen hat man das getan.

Ich sage das noch mal: Das war ein großes Verbrechen, das größte Verbrechen, das ich erlebt habe. Aber leider hat damals niemand... niemand hat nix gewußt. Die Herren, die heute vorgeladen worden sind, die ganzen Gruppenführer, Obergruppenführer, Generäle, die sagen, die wissen von gar nichts. Dann sage ich mir nur, dann sind die Juden freiwillig in die Gaskammer oder nach Auschwitz gekommen. Wir haben sie nicht transportiert. Wir haben sie nur empfangen. Die Polizei haben sie gebracht. Gendarmerie haben sie gebracht, alles. Und wir haben die Befehle ausgeführt. Und wir mußten - wenn heute einer sagt von den Herrn Nebenklägern: »Ja, Sie konnten sich an die Front melden«- erst mal in Auschwitz sein unter dieser Führung. Herr Präsident, ich sage Ihnen das: Es ist gut, daß wir den Krieg verloren haben. Denn wenn wir den Krieg gewonnen hätten, dann hätten sie uns, was wir in Auschwitz gesehen haben, die hätten uns umgelegt.

Mit solchen Gedanken habe ich mich befaßt. Und darum wollte ich von Auschwitz weg. Ich habe viele Kameraden gehabt, die früher bei den Aufständischen gewesen waren, vor 39. Die haben Deutsche mißhandelt, Deutsche geschlagen oder Deutsche getötet. Weil sie nur in die Kirche gingen zum Gottesdienst, haben die Polacken sie geschlagen, die Kinder und die Frauen. Und aufgrund dessen kam dann die Vergeltung von uns. Und die haben wir dann... War klar, daß die dann nach Auschwitz gekommen sind.
http://www.auschwitz-prozess.de/index.p ... ngeklagten
A five meter high flame.

It may be of some note, but Kaduc was ten years in Communist prisons.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:56 pm)

friedrichjansson wrote:.....

6. Langbein, People in Auschwitz, p. 349 - testimony of Kaduk, Broad and Bartelmes
‘‘We really did not know anything about Auschwitz and the extermination of
the Jews.’’ This is what many witnesses who occupied high positions in the
government or the party when the Auschwitz crematoriums burned day and
night told the Frankfurt judges. Such assurances can be heard not only in Ger-
man courtrooms. Many people who had high rank and standing in the Third
Reich afterward endeavored to demonstrate that the extermination of human
beings had been a well-kept secret of the ss. Kaduk gave them a drastic re-
sponse when he let loose one day during the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial: ‘‘When
the ovens were burning, the leaping flame was five meters high and could be
seen from the railroad station. That station was full of civilians. No one said
anything. There also were furlough trains that often stopped in Auschwitz for
a while. Sometimes the whole station was fogged in; then the Wehrmacht offi-
cers looked out the window and asked why there was such a sweet smell. But
no one had the courage to ask, What’s going on? There is no sugar refinery in
this place. Why are these chimneys here?’’
Pery Broad restrained himself during the trial, but at the preliminary ex-
amination he did not mince words. ‘‘The pitch-black smoke clouds could be
seen and heard for kilometers. The stench was simply unbearable. The flames
that came from the chimneys of the crematorium could also be seen from afar.
In those days (1944) I had the impression that people were no longer trying
to keep these things secret or to camouflage them.’’ Adolf Bartelmes, a rail-
road official in Auschwitz, also confirmed that the flames could be seen from
a distance of fifteen or twenty kilometers and that people knew that human
beings were being burned there. From the busy railroad tracks it was possible
to see columns of inmates escorted by ss men.


7. Langbein, People in Auschwitz, p. 118
Thomas Geve reports that
in the spring of 1944 Hungarian Jews in Birkenau desperately inquired about
the children’s camp. When these new arrivals were separated from their chil-
dren in the selection, the ss calmed them by saying that the children would
be housed in a separate children’s camp. Every day the women saw flames
coming out of the chimneys of the nearby crematoriums and were pursued
by the odor of burned human flesh, and yet they refused to believe the truth.
Occasionally children were allowed to live, and so the mothers regarded this
as an indication that the lies of the ss might be the truth after all.

....

Hermann Langbein's "people in Auschwitz is online now:
https://archive.org/details/HermannLang ... nAuschwitz
He doesn't spare with obnoxious stories and there are more gems in the book. Shall I quote?

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 2 months ago (Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:19 pm)

HeiligeSturm wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Image

Steven Spielberg's Schindler's List perhaps?



Yes it is. From that famous "based on true story" movie about the Jews by the Jews for the Jews.


TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
The screaming was so loud so the orchestra was playing so that people will not know. Or you saw the tall chimneys, not smoke but flames, human flesh.

- Polish Jew Sherman Ray, Auschwitz-Birkenau survivor, from 4:50 on the video




This is exactly what they filmed for The Grey Zone.
The movie is like correction to former eyewitness claims.
Sonderkommando unit wears gas masks (like in Uwe Boll's Auschwitz)
vlcsnap-2013-01-09-22h28m44s221.png

Gas Chamber is washed with hose and then painted while the chimneys are belching flames.
vlcsnap-2012-04-16-06h46m35s115.png

I'm downloading those videos "The grey zone" as well as the "World at War" may be I detect some new chimney tales.

Meanwhile in 2015:

That is one memory you don't forget. They pushed, shoved, and everybody was trying to hold on to each other, because to us, family was everything."

"My mother and two of my sisters were immediately taken to the left."

Within hours, they were gassed, their bodies thrown in a pile and set afire.

"We saw this huge ditch, with flames going up to the pine trees. Those were our families being burned because the crematoria, the volume was so great that they could not handle it."

For 55 years, Marty Weiss refused to even talk about it, until he started volunteering at the Holocaust Museum.

"This gallery of pictures came from one city in Lithuania."
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2 ... /22346981/
Point taken, this is just referring to open air cremation with flames. Just weren't those ditches under water?

She pointed out to me that on every plank, 1.8 by two meters, up to nine women slept. She showed me that from the tiny window you could see the ruins of the cremation furnace. In her day, you saw the flames issuing from the chimney. She asked the older women: “What is that fire?” and they had replied: “It is we who are burning.”...
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1199 ... -auschwitz


But I think this one is new:
Life in Auschwitz
After passing through Mengele’s selection, Frankel’s hair was shaved and she was sent to a quarantine barrack, where she shared a bed with her mother and four others.
“I couldn’t fall asleep,” she said. “That’s how hungry I was.”
Every morning at 5 they were counted.
“You couldn’t even escape,” said Frankel. “If you touched the wire, all the wires were electric. It was simply unbearable. If they didn’t like you, right away they sent you to your death. The crematorium flames were going day and night.”
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news ... e3b5d.html


Here is a classic one, though:
They shared memories of the place where Nazis murdered more than 1 million Jews, where the life expectancy of those arriving was sometimes measured in minutes.

"Dogs were barking and there was a terrible smell," Auschwitz survivor Bogdan Bartkowski recalled. "We didn't know what the smell was. We could only see the chimneys with flames a couple of meters high. We didn't know that it was the crematorium."

At the United Nations, filmmaker Steven Speilberg shared the hope of Holocaust survivors.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael ... ever-Fade/

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Dresden » 6 years 2 months ago (Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:04 pm)

"For 55 years, Marty Weiss refused to even talk about it, until he started volunteering at the Holocaust Museum"

Ok, that explains it.

Marty Weiss had nothing to say until he started hanging around the "Haunted House" where he was finally goaded into becoming a Professional Liar; they most likely made him an offer he couldn't refuse, accompanied by veiled threats:

"Jews who remain silent are betraying their brethren, and are not in good standing in the "community"; Jews who speak out are in good standing and they make lotsa shekels"
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Alan1 » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:47 pm)

Honestly I don't think it is impossible for flames to exit the chimneys IF bodies were burnt continuously, but lots of oxygen is needed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft
Apparently there's something called chimney backdraft.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Dresden » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:56 pm)

Alan1 said:

"Honestly I don't think it is impossible for flames to exit the chimneys....."

If it ever happened, it would have been a rare occurrence, otherwise it would destroy the cremation facility.
If flames were constantly coming out of the chimneys, as alleged, then all that heat energy would be lost to the atmosphere and the Nazis would be wondering "Why is it taking so long to cremate these corpses?"

"IF bodies were burnt continuously....."

If bodies were being burnt continuously(around the clock), then it would destroy the refractory brick, but there is no record of the crematoria being refractoried.

"but lots of oxygen is needed"

Where would that oxygen come from?
It's a crematorium, not a blast furnace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft"

That Wikipedia article has nothing to do with the complex workings of crematoria, nor chimneys of any kind.

"Apparently there's something called chimney backdraft"

Let's hear about it, Alan.....I'm interested. :D
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Alan1 » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:25 pm)

I didn't look into it when I wrote that, but apparently it isn't what I was thinking it is :) more like the opposite, so never mind 'chimney backdraft' .


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