Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby ralphsteiner » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:28 am)

Some very interesting posts in this thread.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:11 pm)

ralphsteiner wrote:Some very interesting posts in this thread.

More...

Zygmunt Gross

Zygmunt Gross is a Polish-Jewish survivor from Auschwitz-Birkenau, father of the historian and Professor of History at Princeton University, Jan T. Gross. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_T._Gross). He published a book "Zygmunt Gross - A survivor who can't forget".

From the video "Zygmunt Gross — A survivor who can't remember"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT8dUGF6PtA
Among many amazing souvenirs, we can hear
5:56.
ZG: Smoke were always coming out.. All the time. Day and night there were fire.
D : You also writes in your book that you could see flames.
ZG : Yes
D: Where did those flames come from?
ZG : From crematorium
D: From the chimney?
ZG: Yes, yes . Because, one can't just cremate. There was elictri...From beginning there were...ehm...ehm.."hand burner" or one by one. And then afterwards they introduced electrical power..and then they were cremated with electrical power.

Sarah Montard

Mrs Sarah Montard is a Polish-Jewish arrived in France at 2 yo. On May, 26th 1944, on her fourteen she was deported from Drancy towards Birkenau with her mother. She had Nr A 7142 tattooed on her arm. She wrote the book "Chassez les papillons noirs" (Hunt the black butterflies), Le Manuscrit, Fondation pour la mémoire de la Shoah, 2011.

From "Témoignage de Sarah Montard - partie 2" (2010)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43LyAMFxIY
At 5:00 [...] then we all asked, when we were in this...this room office, to resume, and that we were tattooed and it was a number of matriculation that we had..and... we asked: "Where are the other people who arrived with us?". Then they showed us, through the window...we saw chimneys...we saw two of them...There were four ovens in fact...but two were hidden behind a curtain, they were not working full time, but two were working actually day and night..eeh..from which arose...there were two chimneys, so, from which were mounting huge flames and then a black smoke...then, they said to us, you see over there...well, tonight, yours will burn there, in these chimneys over there...and, before, they will have passed in the gas chamber. That is what they told us. We didn't want to believe them. My mother told them : "But, you are crazy, such thing is not possible !"...Well, unfortunately, it was true. And I knew after that from our convoy of which we were 1004 people, only 230...yes 237 men and 131 women have been selected for the work, all the others went directly to the gas chamber....

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:23 pm)

"Over the next few months we saw long lines of people going to their deaths in the crematoria; especially large groups were exterminated in May, June and July 1944. During that time the crematoria were operating day and night, which was evident from the flames shooting up through the chimneys. We could often smell the stench of burning flesh, hair, and nails. In addition to the flames from the chimneys of the crematoria, during that time we saw two large bonfires whose flames lit up the night."

- Professor Berthold Epstein of the University of Prague:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Epstein

The above is from USSR-008, the IMT designation given to the official Soviet State Commission's report on Auschwitz.

Image
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... inals.html

The quoted English translation, is from the 2009 edition of the revised and expanded (in 2002) version of Ehrenburg's Black Book linked below.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wvyX ... 22&f=false

I checked my 1946 original English edition of The Black Book, USSR 008's not quoted in it.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:01 pm)

Attorney General: Do you remember the revolt of the Sonderkommand?

Bacon: Yes. It was some time in October 1944, at one o'clock one day. I was then in the camp. I saw that flames were bursting forth from crematorium number 3. These were not the usual flames we saw every day. The usual flames only issued from the chimneys or the pits; although sometimes the flames from the chimneys reached a height of four metres. But we had the impression that on that day the entire crematorium number 3 was alight. Later on we noticed a lot of commotion near the road between Mexico and Section B, and after some time we were told that it was members of the Sonderkommando who had planned a revolt, and the revolt had not exactly worked according to plan. Nevertheless men escaped. They managed to throw an SS man and the German Kapo into the flames.

Yehuda Bacon, Eichmann Trial, June 7, 1961 (Session 68)
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eic ... 68-05.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:36 pm)

"I was facing the crematorium chimneys and the hot sun was directly above my head, cooking my body. I tried to keep my mind working, hoping that doing so would prevent me from falling unconscious to the ground. There was enough smoke and fire coming out of the chimneys to keep anyone's mind fully occupied. The flames ceaselessly erupted, providing an always — present reminder of what this place was all about."

— Recalled Harold Gordon née Hirshel Grodzienski of what he saw (aged 12) in Auschwitz-Birkenau

Gordon, Harold. The Last Sunrise: A True Story: Biography of a Ten-Year Old Boy in Nazi Concentration Camps During World War Two. Salinas, CA: H&J Publishing. 1992. p.148.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Woot ... CDYQ6AEwAA


Synopisis by Furtherglory of scrapbookpages.com
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... ordon.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:51 pm)

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:20 pm)

Image

From The Disposal of the Dead, A Plea For Cremation (1881), by Edward J. Bermingham A.M., M.D.
Description of Cremation at Washington Pa, by "An Eye Witness" [...]

A furnace fire is built and kept burning for twenty or thirty hours before the cremation is to take place. Immediately above the fire is placed in a horizontal position a cylinder of clay called the incinerator, three feet in diameter by seven feel long. This fire clay incinerator, the walls of which are from one to two inches thick, receives to itself the intense heat of the lire below, but does not admit the flames. The consequence is that the body, when placed in the incinerator, is not, in a proper sense of the word, burned. It is reduced to ashes by the chemical application of intense heat Gases are driven off or absorbed, and, being carried down into the fire from the incinerator and led back and forth twenty-five feet through its flames, are utterly consumed. Even the smoke of the fire is consumed, and nothing can be seen issuing from the chimney but the quiver of the heat. The process might be called, as we have said, the spiritualization of the body, the etherealization or sublimation of its material parts.

http://archive.org/stream/disposaldead0 ... 1/mode/2up
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:30 pm)

Only really an inference that the flames normally came through chimney in this eyewitness testimony, which seems to be badly translated. I just like the way the orchestra were instructed to play "in front of the furnaces" (presumably the burning pits) for the Sonderkommandos:

This witness was forced to play his flute whilst he watched his daughter (also a member of another Birkenau orchestra) being led into the gas chamber.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2qNE ... 22&f=false

DR. ALBERT MENASHE (Flutist, Auschwitz Orchestra):
"At one time, there were a lot of people coming from Hungary. Every two hours, there was a train coming with 2,000 or 3,000 people. They were killed and the furnaces were not enough any more. The Sonderkommando had to be increased. The 300 Jews from Salonika and Larissa and from Greece in general were taken to work in the Sonderkommando. The Sonderkommando was always inside the crematoria. They lived there... And our orchestra was there every Sunday, there to play ... in front of the furnaces ... Crematorium Three was especially run by the Greeks, and they asked us, just the Greek players, to come forward and play us something from Greece. And we played. And we were very amazed that all the time they said ... play us our last day, play for us the last moment of our lives. There was not such a thing and we thought that something was fishy but we didn't know exactly what it was. But two or three days later, we understood. We saw the Germans screaming: 'Orchestra! Get out of here!' And we saw the flames coming from the crematoria. But the flames were going through the ceiling, not through the chimneys. What is happening? We saw that this was a revolt in the crematoria. We learned that the people there, the workers, killed the Germans, killed the one who was the kapo there, and tried to get out. But immediately everybody from the soldiers came there. There were about 2,000. They killed everybody. They forced the others to enter the crematorium, the 300 Jews, among them four of my first cousins. Everybody was killed there. The crematorium was completly [sic] ruined but is was not used because there were three other crematoria. Two days later they started immediately burning again."

As quoted in: Losin, Yigal. Pillar of Fire: The Rebirth of Israel—A Visual History. Jerusalem: Shikmona Pub. Co. 1983. p.373.

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/33803f3e85c ... 7ff47b.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Pillar-fire-rebir ... B0006EFU50
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Bob » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:34 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé - crematoria in concentration camps (or in Auschwitz which is in question here) worked differently than civilian crematoria, smoke was emitted from the chimneys, this is also supported by photos which show layer of soot on the top of the chimneys.[1]

Kurt Prüfer:[2]

“In den zivilen Krematorien wird mittels eines speziellen Blasebalgs bereits vorher erhitzte Luft eingeblasen, wodurch die Leiche rascher und ohne Rauch verbrennt. Die Konstruktion der Krematorien für die Konzentrationslager ist anders; sie ermöglicht es nicht, die Luft im voraus zu erhitzen, weshalb die Leiche langsamer und unter Rauchentwicklung verbrennt. Um den Rauch sowie den Geruch des verbrennenden Leichnams zu verringern, wird eine Ventilation eingesetzt.”


Translation from the book of Carlo Mattogno:[3]

“In the civilian crematoria preheated air is injected by means of special bellows, causing the corpse to burn more quickly and without smoke. The design of the crematoria in the concentration camps is different; it does not allow any preheating of air, which causes the corpse to burn more slowly and with production of smoke. A ventilation is used to reduce the smoke and the smell of the burning corpse.”


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes

[1]Jean-Claude Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989, p. 341.; The Auschwitz Album, Peter Hellman, Lili Meier, Beate Klarsfeld, 1981, p. 4, p. 14, p. 15, p. 19.
[2]Jürgen Graf, Anatomie der sowjetischen Befragung der Topf-Ingenieure, Die Verhöre von Fritz Sander, Kurt Prüfer, Karl Schultze und Gustav Braun durch Offiziere der sowjetischen Antispionageorganisation Smersch (1946/1948), 2002, p. 404.
[3]Carlo Mattogno, Auschwitz:The Case for Sanity, Published by The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 197.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:03 pm)

And notice that none of Olere's perverted drawings are supported by aerial photos taken at the alleged peak of the alleged gassings and claimed cremations of said phantom gassing victims.

See 60,000 a day claimed here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 680_5.html

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:23 am)

Auschwitz Concentration Camp
The Gas Chambers & Crematoria
Mass Extermination


"Before the Crematoria were officially commissioned, on 4 and 5 March 1943, in the presence of high-ranking SS officers from Berlin, representatives of the camp authorities and engineers and employees of the firm Topf und Sohne, a test of Crematorium II was held.

Prisoners of the Sonderkommando who had been acquainted with the functioning of crematorium installations by a Capo brought from the Buchenwald Concentration Camp crematorium. August Bruck on the morning of the 4 March 1943 lit the burners of the generators and maintained the fire in them until four o’clock in the afternoon."

Image
Auschwitz II-Birkenau concentration camp. Gas chamber and crematorium II. SS photograph, 1943.
Source -Auschwitz Museum
Next, in the presence of the above- mentioned commission who, watch in hand, were following the course of the test, three corpses were placed in each retort. Because, contrary to expectations, it took as long as forty minutes to burn them, orders were given for the ovens to be heated for a fortnight. :mrgreen:

And more lies:



"On 3 September 1941 following the success of the experimental gassing, the experiment was repeated in the cellar of Block 11.

In the bunker they are crammed together in a few cells. The cellar windows are blocked up with earth. Then about 600 Russian POW’s officers, and political commissars are driven into the cellar. As soon as they are pushed into the cells the SS men threw in the Zyklon B gas, the doors were locked and sealed.

On 4 September 1941 Roll-Call leader Gerhard Palitzsch protected by a gas mask opens the doors and discovers that one of the POW’s is still alive. More Zyklon B is poured and the doors are closed once more.

On 5 September the prisoners of the penal colony and the orderlies of the camp hospital were summoned and taken to the courtyard of Block 11, for “special work”.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... mbers.html

Nazi Doctor Horst Schumann

They were then ordered to don gas masks and taken down to the cellar where the gassing had been carried out. Thence they had to carry the bodies up to the courtyard, strip them of their military uniforms and then transport them to the crematorium. On 16 September 1941 900 Russian Prisoners of War are gassed in the morgue of the crematorium, and Commandant Hoss described this in his memoirs.

“While the transport was detraining, holes were pierced in the earth and concrete ceiling of the mortuary. The Russians were ordered to undress in an anteroom, then they quietly entered the mortuary, for they had been told they were to be deloused.
(compare this with the statement above related to "stripping the military uniforms" -Jerzy

The whole transport exactly filled the mortuary to capacity – the doors were then sealed and the gas shaken down through the holes in the roof. I do not know how long the killing took. For a little while a humming sound could be heard – when the powder was thrown in, there were cries of gas, then a great bellowing and the trapped prisoners hurled themselves against both doors.

But the doors held, they were opened several hours later, so that the place could be aired."

(...)

"Behind the house enormous columns of smoke rose skyward, diffusing the odour of broiled flesh and burning hair."
(..)


"The bodies of the newly gassed began to be burned on pyres on which layers of 2000 corpses each alternated with layers of kindling. At the same time the exhumation and burning of bodies already buried in the mass graves was started."
(...)
"The majority of the elderly and the children reacted in this way. There were, however, a goodly number of adolescents among those brought here, who instinctively tried to resist with a strength born of despair.

If Moll happened to witness such a scene, he took his gun from his holster. A shot, a bullet often fired from a distance of 40 to 50 yards, and the struggling person fell dead in the arms of the Sonderkommando who was dragging him towards the pyre.

Moll was an ace shot – his bullets even pierced the arms of the Sonderkommando men from one side to the other when he was dissatisfied with their work." :mrgreen:

"After the ventilators were switched on and the gas removed from the chamber, the doors were opened and the corpses dragged out and raised in an electric goods elevator to the crematorium building which was at ground level. Next after the hair had been cut off and the gold teeth removed, the corpses were dragged up to the ovens and laid on special trolleys, which were then pushed inside.

The period of cremation lasted about twenty minutes – the ashes and remains of bones were ground down in special grinders and thrown into rivers or carried away in lorries to the village of Harmeze where they were thrown into fish ponds, scattered in the swamps or used to fertilize the fields of the camps farms."

"Behind the house enormous columns of smoke rose skyward, diffusing the odour of broiled flesh and burning hair."

It looks that nazis cut the hair first (forget the risk of being killed by HCN ) and then they burned the hair with bodies?-Jerzy :mrgreen:
But then..
Image
Sacks of Human Hair found at Auschwitz
One way or another?

"I followed them up the stairs to the second story of the crematorium where the prisoners lived- an enormous room, with comfortable bunks lining both walls. The bunks were made of un-painted wood, but on each one silk coverlets and embroidered pillows shone. This colourful expensive bedding was completely out of keeping with the atmosphere of the place.

The whole room was bathed in dazzling light, for here they did not economise on electricity as they did in the barracks. Our way led between the long row of bunks. Only half the commando was present, the other half was on the night shift. Some of those here were already in bed asleep, while others were reading. There were plenty of books to be had, for we Jews are a people who like to read.

The table awaiting us was covered with a heavy silk brocade tablecloth: fine initialled porcelain dishes and place settings of silver. The table was piled high with choice and varied dishes, everything a deported people could carry with them – all sorts of preserves, bacon, jellies, several kinds of salami, cakes and chocolate. From the labels I noticed that some of the food had belonged to Hungarian deportees."

(...)
"Lastly, a Polish report in 1946 by Dr Philip Friedman and Tadeusz discovered the use of a gas –van at Auschwitz, used to liquidate people sentenced to death by the special police court, which convened throughout the war at Auschwitz.

The relevant part in the report has been translated:

To kill small groups of prisoners (up to 30 people) in 1944 they introduced special lorry-gas chamber. Special report of secret organization dated 21.09.1944 describes that. (I do not know why the date is earlier than 1944):

“ In the sandy area (close to Maczki?) is located so called Sonderkomando Rycyrk – special lorry-gas chamber and plough. This lorry (Saurer) Pol 71-462, yellow-green was constructed on the special way, it included 4 m long and 2,5 wide chamber, steel plated inside, with door without handles, floor – trap door and grated window in the right corner to let in the fresh air. This lorry has at the back the pipe to which another pipe may be connected when necessary. When the engine was started the fumes were killing people inside. The plough was used for digging and burring the victims.



http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... mbers.html



Please don't forget about those eye-witness who were able to state the nationally of victims based on the color of smoke from the crematoria chimneys :)

Jerzy

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:23 am)

Image
The Vindicator - Nov 1, 1990, pp.B1-B2.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gG ... 46%2C23090
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:38 am)

The following is a translation by Mr. Walter Loewenthal of New York of an original radio interview with Mrs. Rothschild, originally broadcast in Switzerland to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz on January 27, 1945. The reader should bear in mind that the interview was given on Swiss National Radio and therefore directed at the general public. When speaking to a heimishe audience, her message of emunoh and bitochon caused a great his'orerus. Powerful and moving, yet never losing its human and specifically Jewish dignity in the face of even inhuman suffering, nothing could better convey her message in life than her own words.

SR (Swiss Radio): "Mrs. Rothschild, tomorrow [January 27, 1995] is the 50th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz by Russian troops. What recollections come to the fore when you think of Auschwitz?"

ER: "I am sad, I am disturbed by the memories of the inhuman events which are reawakened in me. I see the crematorium before me, the chimney, the blood red flames which reach out to heaven in the middle of the night as if they were saying that the blood of the innocent is called up to the heavens. I see this in front of me. I am very disturbed and feel great anguish and sorrow. My old wound is again torn open. It is bleeding again, and I can only feel that I can forgive, but I cannot forget."

http://www.chareidi.org/archives5759/ba ... erince.htm


It happened over 60 years ago. Miriam Schlezinger was only a teenager when the life she knew was stolen from her. Her home. Her family. Her spirit.

Miriam is a Holocaust survivor. Now 82 years old, she's committed to ensuring that children and anyone who will listen knows that the
Holocaust really happened.

"It's my duty right? I might be the last one alive.And I do want to tell people that there was a Holocaust, there was," said Schlezinger.

Schlezinger was a prisoner in Auschwitz, a Nazi concentration camp which was known for it's incredibly high death toll. It was here that she witnessed the terror.

"It was something to wake up in the morning and see all those dead people in front of you. I saw the flames out of the chimney and knew people were being burned, my family,all of them."

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/45268927.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:06 am)

"I stood by the fence and watched the Jews from Hungary come in There were long lines filing into the crematorium only 20 feet from me. I watched them go in but they never came out Women, children, babies. The flames from the chimney rose 30 feet in the air. Do you know what that does to you? It was then that I rebelled against God I am a Jew by birth but I no longer practice But my parents would like it if I said Kaddish for them I do it for them

— Michel Zylberberg
Syracuse Herald American, Sunday, June 8,1997, p.A6


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Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 9 months ago (Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:07 pm)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:"Behind the house enormous columns of smoke rose skyward, diffusing the odour of broiled flesh and burning hair."

It looks that nazis cut the hair first (forget the risk of being killed by HCN ) and then they burned the hair with bodies?-Jerzy :mrgreen:
But then..
Image
Sacks of Human Hair found at Auschwitz
One way or another?
....

Remember the bunnycaust?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5196

Especially this picture:
Image


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