Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:15 pm)

The biggest flames yet, courtesy of Sergey Romanov:

"During the crematoria's work, the flames appeared out of chimneys, up to 15 m high. Corpse smell spreads across many kilometers around this horrible place."

- Report of escaped Russian POWs Ananij Silovich Pet’ko and Vladimir Jakovlevich Pegov
31 August, 1944, Kiev
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96187


Seregy Romanov is a defender of the flaming chimneys:

We know that the flames were shooting out of Auschwitz chimneys, so the only thing they got wrong was the maximum height of such a flame, and they did not claim to have seen it themselves.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 56#p885456


Sergey Romanov has perhaps learnt what soot is since he posted this puzzler on 21.04.06:

We know that the flames regularly appeared out of Auschwitz chimneys because of collected soot.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 00#p885800
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hannover » 5 years 7 months ago (Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:00 pm)

More examples of Sergey Romanov's belief in the absurd:

Human soap & Human skin lampshades debunked

An example of Sergey Romanov's scholarship

Sergey Romanov - problems with Filip Mueller and Rudolf Vrba

Demolished, he fled from this forum.

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:13 pm)

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'Witness to Extermination': Auschwitz Museum Publishes Prisoner Sketchbook
By Alex Macbeth

Spiegel online, January 17, 2012

Found hidden away in a bottle, the Auschwitz Memorial Museum has published sketches drawn by a prisoner at the Birkenau extermination camp. They provide a rare first-hand glimpse of life and death inside. The book is part of the museum's plans to launch a catalogue of 6,000 artworks in its archives.

The sketches are chilling -- prisoners arriving at a concentration camp, children being torn from their parents' arms, a guard casually smoking outside a gas chamber as bodies are loaded into a truck. The images, recently published in a book by the Auschwitz Memorial Museum, were taken from a unique sketchbook drawn around 1943 at the Birkenau camp. A former prisoner working as a watchman discovered the 32 sketches in a bottle near the death camp's crematorium in 1947.

"The Sketchbook from Auschwitz" includes the 22 pages of drawings from an unknown prisoner whose initials were apparently MM. They represent a rare first-hand historical account of the Holocaust. "These sketches are the only work of art made in Birkenau that depict exterminations," museum spokesman Pawel Sawicki told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

While the circumstances make it hard to identify or trace the author, details in the images themselves provide several clues as to when they were created. The main gate at Birkenau, for example, is depicted before an extension was added.

"The second wing of the main gate was built between 1943 and 1944, but is absent from the sketches. Thus we concluded that the sketches were drawn in 1943 or before. From our records we believe that the author would have worked in the hospital sector or gathering luggage from the ramp," Sawicki explained.

'Witness to Extermination'

The most striking aspects of the sketches in the book are the minute detail and the artist's emphasis on presenting documentary evidence. "You can clearly see that the author was determined to present the largest number of details," Agnieszka Sieradzka, an art historian with the museum and the author of the book wrote in a statement. "Badges of functionary prisoners, number plates of the trucks, train cars on the ramp as well as block numbers are carefully depicted. The author of the sketchbook hoped that someone would find his work so that it would become a witness to extermination."

[...]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 09591.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:22 pm)

We've a new record with this one. It was a letter written to a Jewish magazine in response to an article on bombing Auschwitz by David S. Wyman

Bombing Auschwitz

To the Editor:

In 1944 I was an inmate of the so-called “Gypsy” camp at Auschwitz, which was located about 200 yards from the crematoria. During the first week of October 1944, the day after one of the crematoria had been sabotaged and all the inmates involved had been hunted down and killed by the SS, I heard intense anti-aircraft fire and instinctively sought cover. My first thought—and my hope, in spite of my proximity—was that Allied bombers had finally come to put an end to this inferno. They didn’t. That was thirty-four years ago. Today, thanks to David S. Wyman’s excellent article, “Why Auschwitz Was Never Bombed,” and my own research, I know that priorities to save Jewish lives were very low. There are, however, a few observations I would like to add to Mr. Wyman’s article.

During World War II heavy fighter escort was essential to protect Allied bombers on daylight bombing missions. Night raids needed less, if any, protection, but remained inefficient because of poor target visibility. Here, Auschwitz was the exception. While all of Hitler’s Europe hid from Allied bombers under a strict and ruthlessly enforced blackout, Auschwitz killing installations remained brightly lit, night after night, for the following reason: the fumes emanating from the crematoria chimneys reignited into a bright red fiery plume, each one about 75 feet long. These flames lit up the night sky and surrounding landscape and could be seen for miles.

The German military high command received continuous complaints from the German air-defense headquarters to stop these night cremations, because the fires could act as a navigational beacon for enemy bombers. Having seen the flames myself and having been a pilot, I would estimate that against a blacked-out landscape and from a height of 23,000 feet, on a clear night, Auschwitz must have been visible from a distance of at least 75 miles. Since many bombing raids were flown into this highly industrialized area, Allied pilots must have seen these fires. I believe it to be relevant to Mr. Wyman’s article to investigate whether pilot reports and aerial photographs of this macabre period exist.

The killing installations were clustered in a relatively small area and were clearly visible at night, so that a few B-17′s during a single night raid could, at best, have eliminated Auschwitz as a killing center. At worst, they could have prevented the Germans from using the “ovens” at night. This limitation alone would have saved many lives.

Herbert Loebel
Sherman, Connecticut

Commentary magazine, July 1, 1978


Mattogno writes that any flames from Krema II or III's chimney would have had to have already travelled at least 24 metres from the ovens before they reached the top of the chimney. So if Mr. Loebel witnessed flames 75 ft (22.86 metres) above their 16 metre (from surface) tall chimneys, these flames must have been at least 46.6 metres (153 ft) in length. Although, to be fair, Mr. Loebel didn't say the flames travelled from the ovens, but that the were caused by fumes igniting at the tops of the chimneys.

David S. Wyman wrote in response to Loebel's letter

Herbert Loebel’s information concerning night fires marking the crematoria is most interesting. Because of that factor, it may be that a night attack would have been the most effective approach. The problem for aircraft striking Auschwitz in the daytime, however, was not the threat of German fighter planes. Nor would it have been difficult to locate the targets in daylight. As I pointed out in my article, the main potential problem at Auschwitz was flak. If daytime flak would, in actuality, have hampered aiming over the gas-chamber side of the complex (five miles from the industries), night flak would also have caused trouble in that regard, though perhaps less.

I doubt that the phenomenon of the flaming chimneys was known to the Air Force planners in Italy. I found no mention of them or any photographs in the archives. Except for one small night operation to Blechhammer, which did not take place until November 13, I saw no indication of Allied night flights into the Auschwitz region. Photo-reconnaissance aircraft may, however, have operated in that sector at night. In any event, the briefing reports given bomber personnel shortly before they set out to bomb the Auschwitz industries included no mention of flaming chimneys.


Well researched and interesting forum post on Blechammer:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthr ... mp-complex
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:10 pm)

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http://archives.mountaintimes.com/mtweekly/2004/0701/symposium.php3

Polish Jew Morris Rosenblatt remembers Auschwitz:

I had never heard the word ‘crematorium’ before. He looked at me and said, ‘You come with me tonight and I’ll show you.’ We went up to the top of his barracks and he showed me the crematorium in a camp that was adjacent to Auschwitz. I could see the chimneys and the flames shooting up to the skies. He said, ‘I hate to tell you this but your parents are no longer alive. The Jewish people coming here are picked and if they are not coming into Auschwitz, they go to the crematorium.’


Journey Through Darkness
A Holocaust Survivor’s Story: Part Three In A Series
By Jeff Eason
The Mountain Times (Boone, NC), July 24, 2003
http://archives.mountaintimes.com/mtwee ... eries.php3
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:41 pm)

Czechoslovakia Jew "Barry Davis" on what he first saw at Auschwitz:

“Flames were shooting sky high from the chimneys of the crematoriums. All that could be heard were the commotions, barking dogs, screaming and crying of young children and their parents who were separated from each other in the darkness of the night."

"Holocaust survivor shares his story" by Blair Edwards
November 20, 2013
mississauga.com (Toronto)
http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/4 ... his-story/
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:50 pm)

Image

I didn’t have far to go or to look to see the squat rectangular chimney belching black smoke. By that time I had heard what had happened to those who had been directed to the left by the moving finger. I stood there by the flickering flames licking above the top of the chimney and thought to myself: “which of these flames is my mother?”

Frank Bright

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... chta4.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:07 pm)

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We alighted from the train cars amidst shouts of the SS men and barking of their dogs. Their task was to clear the train as quickly as possible; then we passed the first selection, performed by the notorious Dr. Mengele. Our appearance seems to have satisfied him. He ordered that we all be placed in the camp. We passed close to the women's' camp, near which there began the road to crematoriums No.2 and No.3. Further on there were the sports grounds. We were herded into a large building located nearby. That was a true public bath. Those who emerged from it waited outside. From here one could see the two crematoriums 400-500 meter away. As it began to darken we saw tongues of fire emerging from the chimneys.

Then suddenly the SS man in charge of us shouted at us and ordered us to form ranks and start moving. The order was "forward!", and so we began to move toward the crematoriums. I marched in one of the front rows. Thinking of our predicament, I was frightened at the prospect that we'd be herded into one of the crematoriums. Yet we passed by and went on marching toward another gate bearing the sign:

Arbeit Macht Frei (Work Frees).

As the SS were shouting and pushing us, we passed the gate and stopped by barrack 3. Then we realized that the immediate danger was over. We were living katzetniks again. Because of the late hour they had barely time to push us in. It was very crowded, and some of us, including myself, remained outside all night. Wee were unable to sleep. Our eyes were all the time pointed at the crematoriums with their firing chimneys.

PATHS OF FATE
By Shamay Kizelstein, Auschwitz-Birkenau, No. B-1908
http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/kizelstein.htm
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:21 pm)

As a matter of fact, the German air defence headquarters for the Auschwitz sector complained to the German high command about the night cremations, when flames were shooting out from the chimneys of the five crematoria and could be seen for miles, as witnessed by American flyers.

Willie Glaser
St. Laurent, Que

(Letter to the editor) The Canadian Jewish News, August 25, 2011, p.8.
http://www.cjnews.com/sites/default/fil ... %20TOR.pdf
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:01 pm)

Czechoslovakian Jew Otto Jakubovic, holds a doctorate in biochemistry:

Otto lectured in biochemistry at Sheffield University. He was imprisoned at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944. He was 15. His arrival coincided with marked increases in the number of inmates being murdered and then incinerated. Up to 5,000 per week were being killed. Otto told me that one of his abiding memories was the sight of flames leaping out of incinerator chimneys as he stumbled out of the cattle-truck like carriages onto the platform at Auschwitz rail terminal.

"Experiments: why "participants" rather than "subjects"?" by Professor Edward Winter
The Sports and Exercise Scientist, Issue 16, June 2008, p.12.
http://www.bases.org.uk/pdf/TheSES%20(16)%20first%20half-LR.pdf
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:21 pm)

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A 20-year-old Gilbert Michlin in Washington, 1946.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/a-holocaust-survivor-stonewalled-by-siemens/

Along with this ever-present brutality, the threat of the gas chamber hung over our heads. The four Auschwitz gas chambers were there in Birkenau. We knew that only Jews could be gassed, and it was made certain we did not forget it. If we were sent there, we knew we would depart by the squat, square smokestacks of the crematoriums that continually spit out a thick smoke licked by flames. The pervasive sweetish odor of burning flesh shrouded the camp and its surroundings. We also quickly learned that it was "unhealthy" to get sick. Going to the Krankenbau, the hospital, meant for any Jew the move toward eternity.

Gilbert Michlin, Of No Interest to the Nation: A Jewish Family in France, 1925-1945, Detroit, MI: Wayne State University Press, 2004, p.77.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:24 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Image
A 20-year-old Gilbert Michlin in Washington, 1946.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/a-holocaust-survivor-stonewalled-by-siemens/

Along with this ever-present brutality, the threat of the gas chamber hung over our heads. The four Auschwitz gas chambers were there in Birkenau. We knew that only Jews could be gassed, and it was made certain we did not forget it. If we were sent there, we knew we would depart by the squat, square smokestacks of the crematoriums that continually spit out a thick smoke licked by flames. The pervasive sweetish odor of burning flesh shrouded the camp and its surroundings. We also quickly learned that it was "unhealthy" to get sick. Going to the Krankenbau, the hospital, meant for any Jew the move toward eternity.

Gilbert Michlin, Of No Interest to the Nation: A Jewish Family in France, 1925-1945, Detroit, MI: Wayne State University Press, 2004, p.77.

Looks great! Wonder how did Rhine Meadow Camp prisoners look a year later....

My personal take is that some of the Auschwitz prisoners aren't lying, but confusing things with the industrial chimneys in that area. That's me giving them some benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:03 am)

Hektor wrote:My personal take is that some of the Auschwitz prisoners aren't lying, but confusing things with the industrial chimneys in that area. That's me giving them some benefit of the doubt.


These witnesses' flaming crematoria chimneys are—with possibly one of two exceptions amongst the very early ones—the result of cross-pollination, to borrow Irving's phrase. A factor in survivor narratives that Justice Gray recognised in his Judgment of the Irving v. Penguin and Lipstadt trial.

Perhaps the tale has it's origin in a burn-off chimney somewhere in the Buna Works (there's some panorama photos of the area which were submitted to the IG Farben trial: Walter Dürrfeld defence exhibits 134 and 135) but the overwhelming majority of these witnesses were repeating what they'd heard once the war was long-finished about what was supposedly present at Birkenau; having convinced themselves that they must have seen them too. My very first post on this thread was about the 1947/8 Polish film Ostatni etap (The Last Stage) in which there's a memorable scene featuring flaming crematoria chimneys. The film was shown in the U.S. and probably in Western Europe too.

The Birkenau flaming chimneys are seemingly present in a relatively small percentage of the testimonies given in (or, questionably dated) 1945. The ones I can think of right now are: Dora Szafran; Henyrk Tauber; Berthold Epstein; Perry Broad; Pelagia Lewińska and David Olère (drawings).

Almost 600 affidavits were taken by the British War Crimes investigators (who had an awful lot of German-born Jews on staff) at Belsen during the late spring/summer of 1945. Some of these affidavits were given by the German camp staff, some by the Hungarian guards, others by the British soldiers who first arrived at the camp, but the vast majority of them were given by former prisoners—Jewish former prisoners. I've not yet counted how many of these affidavits are about, or mention, Auschwitz, but if I had to estimate I'd say that it was well-over a hundred. But despite that, I've only found one, a single one, that mentions flaming chimneys: Dora Szafran, whilst a huge number of them mention the crematoria, selections, gas chambers, Dr. Mengele, etc., etc.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:14 pm)

Image

Dr. Mengele's seven Romania dwarfs, the Ovitzes:

Standing at the edge of the ramp, the Ovitzes and their entourage watched as the backs of their uncles and aunts, cousins and friends, all the neighbors from Rozavlea, disappeared in their march toward the building with two chimneys that seemed to ceaselessly pour out flames and smoke. "What's that fire all about?" asked Perla Ovitz. A man in a striped jacket looked at her with revulsion and said: "Don't you know where you are? This is no bakery—this is Auschwitz, Kever Yisroel, the Grave of Israel, and you'll soon end up in the ovens, too!" He spoke not out of malice but from furious despair. Reduced to a mere shadow of a man, he was a Polish Jew who had been in hell for too long, and was indignant at the new arrivals' ignorance, of what their brethren have been through for the last few years.

Suddenly, each flame looked like a human being, flying up and dissolving in the air. We went numb, then started thinking about the unknown man we were waiting for—if this was a graveyard, what was a doctor doing here?

(Bold text text italicised in original; pp.73-74)


Image

Perla Ovitz couldn't understand how Yahweh watched the Birkenau chimneys flaming without doing something about it:

It's beyond me to understand how he, who sees the whole world, could watch the flames coming out of the chimneys, devouring his children, and do nothing. There are rabbis who say that the Jews died in the Holocaust because of their sins. Although I'm Orthodox and have the utmost respect for rabbis, I totally abhor this explanation. Our friends and relatives were extremely religious and did nothing to deserve punishment of any kind. We are too small and lowly to comprehend God's intentions. The fire was his will, as it was his will that our whole family would survive.

(Text italicised in original; p.274)


Yehuda Koren, Eilat Negev, In Our Hearts We Were Giants: The Remarkable Story of the Lilliput Troupe—a Dwarf Family's Survival of the Holocaust, New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, 2004.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby borjastick » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:32 pm)

It was this story - about the Ovitz dwarf dancing troupe of Auschwitz - that got me a lifetime ban from commenting on the Daily Mail. Their story was featured sometime last year and I simply stated that it couldn't have been a terrible death camp as asserted in the story several times, because they survived. Moreover according to the accepted version of typical victims these people were absolutely right for extermination. For that simple logic I got banned!

The reality is this Ovitz family all survived and I think emigrated to Israel and did very well. As for the flames looking like human beings it is a metaphorical statement but still bollocks and totally made up.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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