Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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Hektor
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:48 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
Hektor wrote:It seems they were having great fun in Auschwitz!


You must wonder what Mr. K (if he even existed) had been reading:

Image

I say "if he even existed", as knowing the so-called 'Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany' he likely never did:
...
Something from the 60s, 70s I guess.
Befitting this is also the following:
What I am about to write you have not heard or read before, as follows: Me and a Jewish American (a watchmaker, passport from the USA) were subjected to medical experiments. SS German Shepherd dogs, belonging to the commander of the SS Obersturmfuehrer Rosenbaum, with a special poison on their teeth … we had to run [and] the dogs had to chase us. Afterwards they examined our wounds, the blood. A doctor … ripped the flesh of my legs and examined it. After some time I was able to escape. First to a peasant in a village—afterwards to friends of mine in Krakow. There my wounded legs started healing. As a result of this experiment (the dog bite and the poison) my whole left foot was ripped apart and during the course of the years I developed wounds and cancer. During August 1962 and November 1962 I was operated [on] in the cancer institute and was treated in Gliwice in Poland. …My good parents were shot in the summer of 1942 under the supervision of SS Obersturmfuehrer Rosenbaum and were buried in the mass grave in Rabka."

http://www.claimscon.org/index.asp?url= ... se_summary
Poison teeth Shepherd dogs, now give me a break.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby friedrichjansson » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:27 am)

Kingfisher wrote:Looking at Olere's work and also some of the picures in that book you linked to "Witness Images", this Holo-art is actually quite interesting to analyse... with "torments of Hell" reminiscent of medieval Church art.


It's not altogether surprising. Consider as an analogy the fact that late medieval art took a turn back towards the morbid after the black death epidemic of 1348. There's probably a thesis to be written there.


Here's a flames story from Langer's Holocaust Testimonies : The Ruins of Memory:
Asked by the interviewer to describe her arrival at Auschwitz, Barbara T. begins: "It was night, but it was light because there were flames and there were powerful searchlights in the square. The air stank. Some people in the cars had died of thirst, of hunger, of madness. I felt a tremendous thirst. We had no water. And as the doors opened, I breathed in air as if it would be water, and I chocked. It stank. And eventually we saw these strange-looking creatures, striped pajamas, who got us into a marching line." Then an odd thing happens. The witness pauses, half-hypnotized by her own narrative, as if returning from a strange place, and apologizes for what she calls her "absence": "I'm sorry, OK, I . . . I . . . forgive me . . . all right . . . I'm going to . . . I kind of was back there." Intensely aware of the exclusive and inclusive privacy of that moment, which she inhabits simultaneously alone and in the presence of the interviewer (to say nothing of a potentially larger audience of viewers), the witness struggles to resume her narrative, to plunge back into the present, as it were, but succeeds only for an instant: "Inmates whipped us out of the cattle cars," she says, "and they got us into rows of five."
At this point Barbara T. pauses and asks, "Do you want me to talk about that?" "Yes," the interviewer replies, "I think so." "I would like to read it," the witness responds. "It's easier.'' 8 She then reaches for her book, which is lying on the table beside her, and begins to read on camera: "we are dragged out of cattle cars, vomited into an impenetrable black night. suddenly torches brighten up a black sky and i clearly see the night: it engulfs a square drenched in searing brilliance by powerful floodlights." She hesitates an instant, skips a paragraph, and resumes her reading: "screams knife the air and i cover my ears with my hands. torches keep licking the sky like rainbows, flaming rainbows, and i quickly close my eyes but i still see the flames through my closed lids and the screams slash through my hands, into my ears, then a horrible stench hits my nostrils, i gasp for air but i choke. i am terrified. i don't know what to do."

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:32 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
"Over the next few months we saw long lines of people going to their deaths in the crematoria; especially large groups were exterminated in May, June and July 1944. During that time the crematoria were operating day and night, which was evident from the flames shooting up through the chimneys. We could often smell the stench of burning flesh, hair, and nails. In addition to the flames from the chimneys of the crematoria, during that time we saw two large bonfires whose flames lit up the night."

- Professor Berthold Epstein of the University of Prague:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Epstein

The above is from USSR-008, the IMT designation given to the official Soviet State Commission's report on Auschwitz.

A translation is available on line on the site of Carlos W. Porter
Translation of USSR-8 Soviet War Crimes Report on AuschwitzNuremberg Trial - 6 May 1945
By C.W.Porter
http://www.cwporter.com/ussr8.htm

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:40 am)

PotPie wrote:Look at the trees in that picture, it's as if they were leaning forward and sadly witnessing the display. THAT, sir, is propaganda.


Speaking of which, here's a propaclassic from 1961

Image
Sometimes mercy was shown to the children. They were injected with morphia. So they'd be unconscious when hanged. One of the doctors described how they'd then place ropes around their necks... and in the doctor's own words: "Like pictures...they were then hanged by hooks on the walls."

pt. 1: http://youtu.be/3xzOlrfElT0?t=5m6s

pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS0Rs81Bv28
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am)

Bob wrote:TheBlackRabbitofInlé - crematoria in concentration camps (or in Auschwitz which is in question here) worked differently than civilian crematoria, smoke was emitted from the chimneys, this is also supported by photos which show layer of soot on the top of the chimneys.

The issue is that any photo - including all known aerial pictures - can't be seen showing black smoke at the Krema's chimneys. For instance, nothing alike appears at the chimney of Krema II on May-June 1944, the alleged more active period of cremation during the extermination of Hungarian Jews.
East/west view of the Birkenau ramp in May or June 1944, showing the arrival of a convoy of Hungarian Jews. In the background is Krematorium II with its collective chimney, very clearly visible.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0251.shtml

Auschwitz, Hungarian Jews ATO p251-02.jpg
No smoke at Krema II
Auschwitz, Hungarian Jews ATO p251-02.jpg (44.78 KiB) Viewed 3478 times

Fortunately, movies can show us as it would be if it was true.

Smoke&Fire at Krema III a.jpg
Flames & Smoke at Krema III.


According with the construction of Topf's ovens fueled by coke at the camps, if some smoke would appear at the chimneys its color would be white or white-grey in normal activity. And with no flames at all.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:21 am)

Image
By this time it was night, and the glow from the flames climbing from the chimneys of the crematoria lit up the sky. The smell was awful. And we said, "It smalls like garbage. They must be burning our suitcases and our clothes." But there was a Jewish Slovak girl, one of the kapos [prisoner section chiefs], who came to us and said, "Hungarian Jews, you ate chicken paprika while we were suffering. You came through the door, you'll go out through the chimney. You think they are baking bread over there? Those are your parents and your sisters burning.

Professor Emerita of Biology (a scientist! Although she never got a Ph.D) Anna Whitehouse Berkovitz née Anikó Weiszhausz
http://www.glhrc.org/2007/berkovitz.jpg

As quoted in: Kleine-Ahlbrandt, William Laird. Bitter Prerequisites: A Faculty for Survival from Nazi Terror. Indiana: Purdue University Press. 2001.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OedQ ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:24 am)

Zulu wrote:Image


That's a good one. What's that from?
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:26 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
Zulu wrote:
That's a good one. What's that from?

I am not sure about the genuine movie. I captured it from the extracts of movies used by by Vincent Reynouard for illustrating his 3 videos "Les "témoins" ne sauvent pas la thèse officielle de l'Holocauste" (The eyewitnesses don't save the holocaust official thesis). In his 2nd video gives a name of movie "Ein Tag in der Todesfabrik Auschwitz" for imaging a gassing operation at 10:41.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sansconcessiontv
The image of firing chimney comes from the 3rd part
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgF-VPl4dQ.

The movie "Ein Tag in der Todesfabrik Auschwitz" is at least in parts on Youtube. It is interesting because he shows how was supposed to be performed homicidal gassings according with eyewitnesses. As consequence all the failures can be pointed easily.

Ein Tag in der Todesfabrik Auschwitz 1-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-TcaShuE0c
Ein Tag in der Todesfabrik Auschwitz 2-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzEAUcGu8c
Ein Tag in der Todesfabrik Auschwitz 3-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrzSn4TJTfs

However, after quickIy reviewing that material I didn't find the firing chimney, only that last smoking scene of the part 3.

Smoke at Krema.jpg
Black smoke at a chimney


As Reynouard uses also extracts of the serie "Holocaust" in other videos, it could be another possibility.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Mkk » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:42 pm)

Zulu,

The film is Uwe Boll's "Auschwitz", 2011.

Here is a full video with translatable Romanian captions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L08fBPDn ... re=related
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:48 pm)

Of course the reality of the situation as claimed is as physically nonsensical as it is a creation of the mind. If the flames were belching out of the chimneys as claimed day in day out, at the very least the chimney would burn down. At worst the whole building would be engulfed in destructive fire.

Anyone who has experienced a chimney fire will testify how frightening and noisy it is. Once a chimney catches fire it roars away out of control. The inside of the brickwork catches fire, burning all the unburnt matter which has become stuck there, and draws the flames up. In France where woodburners are the norm an annual visit from the ramoneur (chimney sweep) is required, and once he does his thing he issues a certificate which in turn validates the house insurance against fire damage from a chimney fire.

So my question is, do we have records of crematory chimneys burning down on a regular basis in the camps?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:11 pm)

Zulu said: "As Reynouard uses also extracts of the serie "Holocaust" in other videos, it could be another possibility."

Image
I might hazard a guess that it's from the 2005 BBC documentary Auschwitz: The Nazis and the 'Final Solution' Which has some very slick graphics in it (above).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz: ... _Solution'

A youtuber uploaded it in 12 parts, but parts 2,3, 4 and 5 are blocked on copyright. I skimmed through the others but didn't see a flaming chimney.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... mWB3QWPs5M
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:38 pm)

Mkk wrote:Zulu,

The film is Uwe Boll's "Auschwitz", 2011.

Here is a full video with translatable Romanian captions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L08fBPDn ... re=related


Image
I like the way the Sonderkommados now wear gas masks

gassing prodceedure: http://youtu.be/L08fBPDnjYk?t=39m25s

But the image of the flaming chimney's not from it, the smoking chimney is though:
http://youtu.be/L08fBPDnjYk?t=47m16s
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:39 pm)

borjastick wrote:Of course the reality of the situation as claimed is as physically nonsensical as it is a creation of the mind. If the flames were belching out of the chimneys as claimed day in day out, at the very least the chimney would burn down. At worst the whole building would be engulfed in destructive fire.

Anyone who has experienced a chimney fire will testify how frightening and noisy it is. Once a chimney catches fire it roars away out of control. The inside of the brickwork catches fire, burning all the unburnt matter which has become stuck there, and draws the flames up. In France where woodburners are the norm an annual visit from the ramoneur (chimney sweep) is required, and once he does his thing he issues a certificate which in turn validates the house insurance against fire damage from a chimney fire.

So my question is, do we have records of crematory chimneys burning down on a regular basis in the camps?

Her are some pictures of real fires in chimneys.
From http://nationalsafety.wordpress.com/201 ... fety-week/
Fire1.jpg
Fire1.jpg (8.2 KiB) Viewed 3450 times
Fire2.jpg
Fire2.jpg (6.8 KiB) Viewed 3450 times

Other
Chimney's fire 1.jpg
Chimney's fire 1.jpg (38.28 KiB) Viewed 3450 times
Chimney's fire USA.jpg
Chimney's fire USA.jpg (26.33 KiB) Viewed 3450 times

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:26 pm)

(DEPOSITION OF DORA SZAFRAN, Pole, aged 22)

3. On 25th June, 1943, I went to Auschwitz and witnessed several selections for the gas chamber there. I estimate that while I was there about a million people were sent to the gas chamber.

[...]

5. I saw people being sent to the gas chamber. I lived in a block opposite the gas chamber and could see from my window people going into the building. There was a tall chimney and I could see flames coming out. I heard screams come from inside the building and never saw these people come out. I had a clear view, since the only thing that was in between my block and the gas chamber was an electric fence about 15 ft. away from my window.

Appendices (Affidavits & Statements - Szafran, Dora)
War Crimes Trials - Vol. II The Belsen Trial. 'The Trial of Josef Kramer and Forty Four Others'
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Tri ... afran.html

and

Trial of Josef Kramer and Forty-Four Others: The Belsen trial. Volume II. London: W. Hodge. 1949. p.748.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kF8T ... CDYQ6AEwAQ
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:53 pm)

During all that agony, I chanced to hear one of the Kapos speaking Czech. Moving closer to him, I informed him, that I, too, was from Czechoslovakia. He asked me some questions which, in turn enabled me to ask one of him. "Tell me," I said, "what is this place?" He told me at once that Birkenau was the largest extermination camp in Europe under the Nazis. He said, "You see those huge chimney stacks, with flames of fire shooting up to the sky, it's not a laundry but a crematorium where people are burned after they are gassed." I shuddered. I realized then that the foul smell in the camp was that of foul smell in the camp was that of burning corpses.

Hollander, Eugene. From the Hell of the Holocaust: A Survivor's Story. New Jersey: KTAV Publishing House, Inc. 2000. p.39.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EgyQ ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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