Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimneys

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Hektor » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:24 am)

delete double....

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:26 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:This is purely academic, as this silly film contradicts the Orthodox gassing narrative (as laid out by Pressac and Van Pelt) numerous times, but in Krema 4 and 5, the Zyklon B was supposedly entered through windows in the walls (covered by wooden hatches), and not through the roof (as supposedly happened in Krema 2 and 3) as depicted in this silly film.

It is useless to look for historical truth in holocaustian movies. In this one, isupposedly located at Auschwitz, there are many goofs.
For instance, no metallic gas-tight doors were used at Auschwitz. Only wooden gas tight doors were found after the liberation of the camp. It is supposed that there were manufactured on the same model by inmates at the proper workshop of the camp.
Photo 14: [Soviet Commission 1945, no reference]
Auschwitz Gas-tight door Kanada ATO 046-01.jpg
Wooden foor of delousing chamber at Kanada
Auschwitz Gas-tight door Kanada ATO 046-01.jpg (74.5 KiB) Viewed 4544 times

The gas-tight door of the Kanada I delousing gas chamber. Its construction by the DAW, is very rudimentary. It has a peephole, a handle to open it and two hinged iron bars [latches with handles] to close it, closing being completed by screwing a right-angled bolt through each of the two metal catches into which the latches were fitted.This type of gas-tight door, with the same method of closing, was to be used as it stood in the homicidal gas chambers.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0046.shtml

Photo 28:[CDJC Paris, document DL XII-2]
Warsaw Central Commission Archives, sygn.10]
Auschwitz gas-tight door LICRA ATO 049-01.jpg
LICRA Criminal proof
Auschwitz gas-tight door LICRA ATO 049-01.jpg (55.39 KiB) Viewed 4544 times

Gas chamber door produced as evidence of the existence of homicidal gas chambers by the LICRA lawyers during the "Faurisson" trial. Exhibit furnished by the archives of the Warsaw Central Commission for the investigation of Hitlerite crimes in Poland. Instruction "Giftige Gase! Bei Betretendes Raumes LEBENSGFFAHRT / Toxic gases! DANGER on entering this room." This is not convincing proof of homicidal use. Classified as KL Auschwitz-Birkenau "DISINFESTATION gas chamber door," Oswiecim, 1945, an incorrect designation as it should be DELOUSING. It has not been possible to find where this door was located and we do not know to which delousing installation it belonged. The strips of paper adhering to it are a sure sign that it was a delousing gas chamber door. One of the likely locations would be as an internal door of the Kanada I gas chamber or chambers, if we compare Photos 28 and Photo 14 of the Kanada I gas chamber.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0049.shtml

Other inaccuracy concerns the model of gas mask used by Sonderkommandos and guards. BTW, any Sonderkommando hasn't ever mentioned any substitution of his "J cartridge" after few minutes of work. Experts in gas protection know that such kind of equipement is not intended to produce efforts. As the operation of moving 2000 or 3000 cadavers should have lasted more than 6 hours...

Document 35
[Photograph by Pierre BESSON]

Regulation Wehrmacht gasmask type GM ( or Gm) 38, size 2 [ref TM-E 30-451, “L’armeé allemande”of 1st September 1943 and “Handbook on German military forces” of 15th March 1945, technical manuals published by the United States War Department] manufactured in December 1940 and fitted with a “J” filter cartridge “For use with Zyklon”, tested in December 1943. The main absorbant chemicals used for fixing hydrocyanic acid are charcoal impregnated with hexamethylenetetramine (or urutropine) caustic pumice and sodium lime.
Auschwitz Gas mask ATO 495.01.jpg
Wehrmacht gasmask type GM ( or Gm) 38, size 2
Auschwitz Gas mask ATO 495.01.jpg (40.16 KiB) Viewed 4544 times

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0495.shtml
Last edited by Zulu on Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:43 pm)

Image
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=a9 ... %2C2935274
Auschwitz will forever remain the most horrible nightmare. But since we all had names on a (Schindler's) list, the Nazis did not know what to do with us. They put us in front of the ovens in Birkenau for hours, standing and waiting. I remember watching the chimneys, the heavy black smoke going into the skies, and the flames and the stench of burning flesh.

Polish Jew Helen Beck née Hela Brzeska, No.8 on Schindler's List.

Quoted in: Alexander. Leh, Almut. Thonfeld, Christoph. Hitler's Slaves: Life Stories of Forced Labourers in Nazi-Occupied Europe. NY: Berghahn Books. 2010.p.221.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rYve ... 22&f=false
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:06 pm)

They (Roman Jews at Auschwitz) told me that life in the camp could be summed up in three words: hunger, blows, work. After that, and they nodded at the far-off chimneys belching smoke and flames, there was death by asphyxiation and then destruction in the crematory ovens.

Bruno Piazza, Italian Jew, deported to Auschwitz in July 1944

Quoted in: Sodi, Risa B. Narrative and Imperative: The First Years of Italian Holocaust Writing (1944-1994). NY: Peter Lang Pub. 2007. p.124.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kVks ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:42 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Image
I like the way the Sonderkommados now wear gas masks


I unfortunately took this claim from "experts" HDOT as genuine representation of the official storyline:
In Cremas 1 (in the Main Camp) and 4 and 5 and the two peasant cottages in Birkenau, the Sonderkommando did wear gas masks when removing bodies from the rooms because they had no ventilation system. Shlomo Dragon, a member of the Sonderkommando for Bunker 2 (one of the peasant cottages at the back of the camp) reported after the war about his work clearing the bodies from the gas chambers: "We were all given masks, and were led through the door into the cottage."
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=uk

But the above is worthless, senior clerics do insist the Sonnderkommando wore gas masks for Krema II and III as well. Evidently having chose to ignore the evidence from the "visually perfect kind of witness" i.e. David Olere, that they didn't.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee22 ... dolere.jpg

The testimony is that people were wearing gas masks when they went into the gas chamber itself

- Van Pelt, Irving v P+L, Day 10, p.47
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=uk

Tauber recorded that the Sonderkommandos wore gas masks when removing the bodies to the corridor,

- The Pelt Report (p.109)
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/report.pdf

Despite the fact that the ventilation remained on for some time after the opening of the gas chamber, we wore gas masks to work there.

- Tauber
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0489.shtml


I've updated David Olere's picture of how he worked as a Sonderkommando in Krema III as was necessary

Image
Last edited by TheBlackRabbitofInlé on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:21 pm)

Image
"In early August 1944, about a month after my arrival, a transport of Jews arrived from the Lodz ghetto of Poland. One of the new arrivals pointed to a nearby building with a tall chimney that was always smoking—sometimes flames shot out of it—and asked me if I knew what happened in that building. I answered, "I think it's a bakery."
The man answered, "You Hungarians are stupid. That building is a crematorium. They burn people there."

Hungarian Jew Laszlo Berkowits, who survived Auschwitz II (Birkenau) to become a rabbi in the U.S.

Berkowits, Laszlo. Kenny, Robert W. The Boy Who Lost His Birthday: A Memoir of Loss, Survival, and Triumph. Lanham, ML: Hamilton Books. 2008. p.43.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ijmE ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:40 pm)

Image
We traveled four days in cattle cars to the East. We arrived someplace and heard, "Get out, get out!" There was lots of shoving. It was dark, and there were chimneys with smoke and flames coming out of them and a very strange odor in the air.

Dutch Jew Stella Splitter, Auschwitz prisoner no. 81,761

As quoted in: Axelrod, Toby. In the Camps: Teens Who Survived the Nazi Concentration Camps. NY: The Rosen Publishing Group. 1999. p.47.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:04 pm)

Never before had I felt so unhappy as that night. While the sky was red with the flames, rising from the recently swept chimneys, and the Camp was stinking of the corpses, I prayed: God, please, don't me die, I don't want to go on. Let me also go through the chimney. Dear God, I don't want to continue.

Dutch Jew Mirjam Blits recalled of "lying in the shit and the mud" at Auschwitz II (Birkenau).

As quoted in: Van Galen Last, Dick. Wolfswinkel, Rolf. Anne Frank and After: Dutch Holocaust Literature in Historical Perspective. Amsterdam University Press. 1996. p.106.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Xh0k ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:24 pm)

"All the Gypsies were ultimately exterminated. They were dealt with in the following manner: Some of them were sent to Auschwitz; those who remained in Birkenau were sent to the gas chamber. Then those who had been sent to Auschwitz were brought back to be gassed.
"The number of people who were selected was so high that only the number of those who remained was recorded."
"At night you could see flames 30 feet high shooting out of the chimneys of the ovens."

Dr. Henri Goldstein on Auschwitz-Birkenau.

As quoted in: Aroneanu, Eugene. Inside the Concentration Camps: Eyewitness Accounts of Life in Hitler's Death Camps. Westport, CT. 1996. (originally published in French in 1946). p.124.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hNrq ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:03 pm)

Image
The night sky was crimson and spangled with enormous flames rising ceaselessly from the crematorium smokestacks, surrounding the camp with a lofty ring of fire visible from far off—from the houses in Auschwitz, the peasant cottages, the distant villages. [...]
The flames rose high enough to light up every path in the camp. Reflections of flame danced in the mud and the puddles, on the gray barrack roofs, on the pained faces of the women who watched in silence.

Liana Millu, Italian Jew, on Auschwitz II (Birkenau)

Millu, Liana. Trans. Schwartz, Lynne Sharon. Smoke Over Birkenau. Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society. 1991 (org. published in Italian as Il fumo di Birkenau, 1986). p.70.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZrTm ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:57 pm)

I looked at the chimney and it was a red flame — like a red tongue reaching up to the sky, and I wondered which of my cousins, my grandparents, my aunts, my uncles — who, I asked, was going through that chimney now?"

Selene Bruk, "Holocaust Educator & Survivor of the Bialystok Ghetto and Stutthof, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Ravensbruck, and Neustadt concentration camps", remembers her time at Auschwitz II (Birkenau)

As quoted in: Del Calzo, Nick. Rockford, Renee. Raper, Linda J. The Triumphant Spirit: Portraits & Stories of Holocaust Survivors, Their Messages of Hope & Compassion. Denver: Triumphant Spirit Pub. 1997. p.23.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:16 pm)

Elie Wiesel's friend wrote this, I thought it worthy of an illustration

Image
There was no end to these inward struggles. And all the time the enormous chimneys of the crematoria spewed forth their smoke by day and fire by night.

One night I was sitting with Cara in front of the barrack. Her naked breasts were illuminated by the fire from the chimneys. Far away dogs were howling; something rumbled with noise of a distant water-fall. As the flames rose higher and higher above our heads, the stars grew fainter.

Prof. Eugene Heimler, Hungarian Jew remembers Auschwitz II (Birkenau)

Heimler, Eugene. Night of the Mist. Jerusalem: Gefen Publishing House Ltd. 1997 (first published 1959). pp.51-52.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4Ccd ... 22&f=false
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:50 am)

These deluded people who 'witnessed' the flames coming out of the chimney are seemingly just copying each other. If a table of witness statements by date was prepared it would probably show that they are consecutive. In other words no more credible than those UFO and Alien witnesses who all claim the aliens look the same.
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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Zulu » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:55 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:
Zulu wrote:Image


That's a good one. What's that from?

The scene is from the movie "The Grey Zone", 2001.
The Grey Zone, 2001.jpg

Director: Tim Blake Nelson
Writers: Miklos Nyiszli (book "Auschwitz: a Doctor's Eyewitness Account"), Tim Blake Nelson (play), and 1 more credit »
Stars: David Arquette, Velizar Binev and David Chandler

Storyline
The true story of Dr. Miklos Nyiszli, a Hungarian Jew chosen by Josef Mengele to be the head pathologist at Auschwitz. Nyiszli was one of Auschwitz's Sonderkommandos - Special Squads of Jewish prisoners placed by the Nazis in the excruciating moral dilemma of helping to exterminate fellow Jews in exchange for a few more months of life. Together, the Sonderkommandos struggled to organize the only armed revolt that would ever take place at Auschwitz. As the rebellion is about to commence, a group from the unit discovers a 14-year-old girl who has miraculously survived a gassing. A catalyst for their desperate attempt at personal redemption, the men become obsessed with saving this one child, even if doing so endangers the uprising which could save thousands. To what terrible lengths are we willing to go to save our own lives, and what in turn would we sacrifice to save the lives of others?

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Re: Testimonies on flames from Auschwitz crematorium chimney

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:10 pm)

Sonderkommandos - Special Squads of Jewish prisoners placed by the Nazis in the excruciating moral dilemma of helping to exterminate fellow Jews in exchange for a few more months of life.

In no other context would that be recognised as a "moral dilemma". Straightforward accessory to murder, if the story were true. If you're Ukrainian, you didn't even have to do anything, it's enough that you were there.


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