Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

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Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Horhug » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:03 pm)

Dear Fellow Revisionists

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Within the next few days, some important primary source historical documents will be posted on a new website.

The launch date is Sunday 27 January 2013.

These documents contain vital new information regarding some of the WWII concentration camps including Auschwitz, which have never been published before.

The address will be announced on this thread as we launch the website and go live with these documents.

I will be active on this forum to try and answer any questions from interested parties.

A lot of hard work has gone into making this possible and the expertise afforded by the CODOH community will add some much needed analysis and comment on these important new documents.

Let the countdown begin.

Thank you

Horhug.
Last edited by Horhug on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Horhug » 4 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:36 pm)

Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow Revisionists and Truthseekers

As the Sun has already risen in the East on this symbolic day, I am pleased to announce to the CODOH community, our launch of a brand new British Revisionist Website.

We are a UK based team of academics, historians, scientists, campaigners and ordinary people whose aim is to present facts, encourage debate, educate and to become the UK's focus for Revisionist activity and discussion.

Our website presently consists of numerous links to the wide and growing library of Revisionist resources available on the internet and one or two articles of our own.

Additionally, we are publishing for the first time ever, original archival documents, produced by the cryptanalysts at Britain's wartime code breaking centre, Bletchley Park.

Professor Sir Frank Hinsley's Revelation:

Since the publication in 1981 of F. H. Hinsley’s multi-volume official history, British Intelligence in the Second World War, it has been known that British Intelligence had been intercepting and decoding radio messages sent by the “German Order Police” - the Ordnungspolizei or ORPO.

Hinsley also revealed that these decoded messages yielded significant and primary source details of the “daily prisoner returns”, transmitted by the various concentration camp establishments to the controlling camp bureaucracy.

“From the spring of 1942 until February 1943, when it ceased to be sent by W/T, GC and CS decrypted in another cypher a daily return of prisoners at Dachau, Buchenwald, Auschwitz and seven other concentration camps – not all of them, but a good cross section. The daily return consisted of a series of unheaded, unexplained columns of figures which GC and CS worked out to mean (a) number of inmates at the start of the previous day, (b) new arrivals, (c) departures by any means, and (d) number at the end of the previous day. It also specified the various categories of prisoner, such as politicals, Jews, Poles, other Europeans and Russians. GC and CS interpreted column (c) – ‘departures by any means” – as being accounted for primarily by deaths. The returns from Auschwitz, the largest of the camps with 20,000 prisoners, mentioned illness as the main cause of death, but included references to shootings and hangings.

There were no references in the decrypts to gassing.

(Note: W/T = Wireless Telegraphy)




We owe a great debt of gratitude to all of the staff who served at Bletchley Park, England and to the analysts in Poland who first broke the GPCC cyphers. In honour of the Polish and Bletchley Park code breakers, the work of Hut 6 speaks to the world today:

HOR-HUG Reports. The contents of 4152 Orange dealt with some of the concentration camps that have since attained notoriety, (such as Auschwitz, Dachau, Oranienburg), and the next sensational advance in S.S. cryptography was also connected with this frequency. For several months a number of non-enigma messages had been sent out from some six or seven stations to Berlin early in the morning – in fact between 7 and 8 a.m. These messages were eventually passed on to us as it was thought they might tie up in some way with the Enigma traffic. Inspection revealed the following characteristics. The messages, known as HOR-HUG reports from two frequently occurring code groups, were short, consisting of about ten groups of letters, followed by a few more or less invariable code groups. In the message proper the number of letters in any group never exceeded four, and on any one day only ten different letters were used. The last point strongly suggested a figure code and on this hypothesis one day’s traffic was broken early in April 1942.

The messages contained in tabular form the vital statistics of concentration camps: the first four columns denoted (A) number of inmates at start of previous day, (B) new arrivals, (C) departures by any means, (D) number at end of day.

Thus A+B-C=D, and for any station D on one day was A on the next.





Some original documents are available for viewing immediately, some can be downloaded in their original form and some have been transcribed. More will be added in the near future.

We begin today, by publishing all of the available inmate statistics for Auschwitz, in their original form.

We encourage to you to visit our website and share this new historic information far and wide, as the "orthodox" examination of these "concentration camp vital statistics" has been, rather predictably, woefully lacking. You can read about that on our website, with a fuller analysis to follow.

By publishing the documents to a worldwide audience, without fear or favour, we hope to educate our audience with the facts as they were decoded and recorded seventy years ago.

On behalf of the WRH Team in the UK, welcome to our website: WHATREALLYHAPPENED.info

Here are the URLs:

Main site: What Really Happened - http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/

Bletchley Park Decrypts: http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decr ... rypts.html



We welcome your analysis, comments and feedback on the site and these historic documents.

Thank you.

Horhug.

http://www.horhug.com

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby borjastick » 4 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:55 am)

Well done and congratulations for investing so much time and effort in the pursuit of the truth from the BP decrypts etc. The site is well designed and laid out and is easy to navigate etc.

I have read much of the content and have been amazed by several obvious points that spring off the pages;

1 The low number of jews
2 The numbers of comings and goings from the camps particularly Auschwitz, where we are told by the traditionalits that once there it was work or death.
3 No mention of gassings or any metaphorical reference to 'despatching'.

I would however like to read or hear of your executive summary, your conclusions and opinions on what you have found out. You have clearly spent many hours reading this material and have a greater understanding of the material. Perhaps if you could post a general summary of your findings it would be helpful to all.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Haldan » 4 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:23 am)

I have only reviewed the Web site itself very quickly, and not the material (I will read everything tonight). Generally everything looks fine!
The only thing one could remark upon right away is perhaps the graphics below the main header:

WHATREALLYHAPPENED.INFO

They should be scaled a bit lower in height because they stick out and would look a lot better if they were within the "blue area".

Will read the material tonight. I think this is a great initiative!

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby astro3 » 4 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:00 pm)

Happy Holocaust Memorial Day everyone. As I wrote back in 2008, this is ‘a day to mull over the faking of history and the Greatest Lie Ever Told.’ http://codoh.com/library/document/684 (They chucked me out of my College for that - guess you can’t blame them really.)

A bunch of British revisionists have been meeting up now and then. We noticed that animated and mercurial debate was taking place, and so we decided to put together a site – one that would try to foster calm discussion: something that may never have never existed in the UK on this topic.

The most reliable primary-source that exists, for whatever has taken place in ‘The Holocaust’ surely comes from the British Intelligence decrypts made at Bletchley Park, declassified in the mid-1990s. Only one revisionist historian has touched – very lightly – upon this data-archive viz David Irving; and only two pro-H. historians have done so Brinkley and Terry. So, we have typed out all of the camp information from one particular file held at Britain’s Public Record Office (HW 16/65) and put it on the site.

We must surely agree with Borjastic, they show:
1 The low number of jews
2 The numbers of comings and goings from the camps particularly Auschwitz, where we are told by the traditionalists that once there it was work or death.
3 No mention of gassings or any metaphorical reference to 'despatching'.

The monthly-report file (discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298) alludes to another file giving monthly data sheets of who was at each camp – how many Jews, Poles etc and how many came and left each day, and the daily totals per camp, over the 13-month period January 1942 – January 1943. So we’ve now put all of that up online! For the first time ever you can count the actual number of people present at camps such as Auschwitz, Lublin etc.

We have not put up any articles about ‘what it all means’ – that may come later. You see (in my opinion) to get any real sense of how many lived and died at the camps, one would need to integrate these decrypt data with the ‘Death Books’ and no English-language articles evaluate the Death Books (published in 1995, after being released by Gorbachov in 1989). So that is a problem.

Some Ruminations
The Arolsen Archive published total deaths per camp back in 1991, but we would need deaths in the one year 1942 to be of any use here.
Holo-textbooks aver that the Final Solution began in the summer of 1942, mainly I guess because catastrophe did strike the Asuchwitz camp in August-September with 8,000 deaths, one-third of all the inmates. The data here presented enables a close-focus upon this event for the very first time.

Seven tons of Zyklon were delivered to Auschwitz in 1942, and it would be great to have that broken down into figures for monthly deliveries. I guess it would begin in August. But alas no-one seemsto have this data.

It would be nice if we could get 'Death-book figures' as published in 1995 - which supposedly have 68,000 death certificates from Auschwitz, and get these month by month. These books give the % of deaths attributed to typhus.

Maybe we should offer a reward, for anyone who can detect any trace of ‘The Holocaust’ in the decrypts which we have now posted up.

In March 1942 a women’s camp was established, and these decrypt data pages give numbers for that for 4 months September – Jan ’43.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Bob » 4 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:57 pm)

It would be nice if we could get 'Death-book figures' as published in 1995 - which supposedly have 68,000 death certificates from Auschwitz, and get these month by month. These books give the % of deaths attributed to typhus.


As far as I know, there are some 2,060 certificates which give deaths attributed to typhus, so not sure how this may help. I have Sterbücher von Auschwitz: Fragmente, published in 1995, but deaths are not listed with the cause of death.

Certainly, J. Zimmerman and some other people wanted to say that only some 2,060 people died during some 50% period of the entire camp existence which is covered by the death books, about 2,5 people per day and that typhus is some myth or what. One must wonder what some people are able to say or write publicly.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:33 am)

astro3 wrote: catastrophe did strike the Asuchwitz camp in August-September with 8,000 deaths, one-third of all the inmates.

If this figure is accurate, it does raise a few problems for Revisionists. According to to the article on Epidemic Typhus in Wikipedia, the mortality rate is 10% to 60%, but even in the Armies on the Eastern front in the First World War it was only 10% to 40%. An overall death rate of one third implies almost 100% infection combined with a mortality rate at the top end.



(Incidentally, and away from the topic of this thread, the same Wikipedia article lends strong support to the general Revisionist position:
Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[6] Thousands of prisoners held in appalling conditions in Nazi concentration camps such Theresienstadt and Bergen-Belsen also died of typhus during World War II,[6] including Anne Frank at the age of 15 and her sister Margot. Even larger epidemics in the post-war chaos of Europe were only averted by the widespread use of the newly discovered DDT to kill the lice on millions of refugees and displaced persons.
Nary a mention of the misuse of these pictures, of course, but it's actually more effective without)

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Horhug » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:10 am)

Thanks to all for the feedback.

borjastick wrote:Well done and congratulations for investing so much time and effort in the pursuit of the truth from the BP decrypts etc. The site is well designed and laid out and is easy to navigate etc.

I have read much of the content and have been amazed by several obvious points that spring off the pages;

1 The low number of jews
2 The numbers of comings and goings from the camps particularly Auschwitz, where we are told by the traditionalits that once there it was work or death.
3 No mention of gassings or any metaphorical reference to 'despatching'.

I would however like to read or hear of your executive summary, your conclusions and opinions on what you have found out. You have clearly spent many hours reading this material and have a greater understanding of the material. Perhaps if you could post a general summary of your findings it would be helpful to all.


In response to your point about our lack of summary for this data:

I have worked on this for a little over three weeks. My responsibility so far has been to retrieve the records from the archives in London and to transcribe the relevant concentration camp sections from the Bletchley Park periodic summary reports, ZIP OS1 to OS7 and to create their web pages. I've also posted the monthly tables of daily inmate figures for Auschwitz January 1942 to 1943 on our site. As a result of the transcription process, I was the natural choice to write an introduction to using the summary reports and research the literature on this subject. So, that's my area of "expertise".

I sought counsel from an historian who was familiar with these archives and was advised that "it will take longer than you might imagine". That advice proved to be entirely appropriate. As all of this information was new to us, we didn't want to rush ahead and produce some hasty "analysis" for obvious reasons. The data requires analysis by experts in the field and so we decided the best thing we could do in the short term was just publish it. That way the original documents would be available to the entire world of H research.

To date, there has been only one book published that supposedly "examines" the decodes, Official Secrets by Richard Breitman. I know of three other essays. Nick Terry's paper "Conflicting Signals", an essay by Jan-Erik Schulte which I think appears in the book, Hitlers Kommissare: Sondergewalten in der nationalsozialistischen Diktatur, the NSA paper Eavesdroping on Hell, by Robert J Hanyok mentions the GP message archives and is an interesting paper but contains no analysis. Finally, a paper by the head of Madjanek Museum, Tomasz Kranz, http://www.belzec.eu/images/media/Zeszy ... egramy.pdf which, as far as I can tell is in relation to the Lublin / Madjanek inmate tables only.

To illustrate our predicament. In relation to the, as yet unpublished Lublin inmate tables, until we discovered the Tomasz Kranz paper, we could not be absolutely sure that this data related to Madjanek or the entire camp system administered by Lublin for example. It seemed a reasonable working assumption, but without some kind of confirmation, it was judged unwise to even make that claim. At least we now know that Kranz interprets the Lublin tables as Madjanek.

Likewise for the Auschwitz tables, what did they represent? Were these figures for all of the Auschwitz complex, or some of the 40 or 50 or so sub-camps, or just for Auschwitz I ? Then we find that the inmate tables beginning in September 1942 at Auschwitz and October 1942 at Lublin start appearing in two sets of tables. September 1942 at Auschwitz is sub-headed "V.P.A". We still have no idea what this acronym means. VPA is used once as a subheading for Auschwitz in September 1942, is mentioned in the summary reports in respect of Auschwitz in September and October only and for Lublin in October only. The term VPA then disappears from the tables and the reports. The BP analysts first posit the idea that the second inmate table for Auschwitz in September 1942 (subheaded VPA for this month only) may relate to a women's camp, it appears, simply because they decoded a message about deaths among men and women in August. They describe the "VPA" camp as being "near to Auschwitz". The "womens" camp definition for the second inmate data is then carried through in subsequent months and also applied to the second Lublin tables. Further investigation of the message archives may help, but the actual HORHUG type inmate returns do not appear to be among the archives.

Nicholas Terry refers to a womens camp in this CODOH post; http://www.codoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6015 - "The women's camp is not as well documented in 1942 but the final figures at the end of the year match what then becomes known from labour deployment section (Arbeitseinsatz) reports." and Kranz refers to a womens camp in his PDF above.

Breitman's "examination" in Official Secrets doesn't mention a women's camp. Mind you, Breitman doesn't mention much at all about the concentration camp decodes. Having campaigned for their declassification, this chap writes the first book on those decodes, the majority of which relates to Einsatzgruppen messages. However, Breitman reserves special treatment for the concentration camp decodes, summary reports and inmate tables. All we get is just 12 pages in single chapter, on one camp, Auschwitz, with only two footnotes referring to any of the archives. Imagine the opprobrium that would be lavished on an author of such negligible, insignificant work, if that author contended certain aspects of the H. Nick Terry makes the point that the GPCC OS series of periodic reports published on our website from PRO (now TNA) HW16/65, were unavailable to Breitman at the time of writing his Official Secrets book and in his post above, refers to his two footnotes as, Breitman writing them up in "brief form". Maybe Breitman was on a publishing deadline, who knows. Maybe he didn't like that which he had not found in the concentration camp message archives and the chalice passed to him by his colleague, both now at the IWG, Gerhard L Weinberg, turned out to be of the poisonous variety after all.

Breitman certainly doesn't lack imagination that's for sure. On page 114 of Official Secrets, he states: "Information about Birkenau and the factory-style process of mass murder was more difficult to locate in the decodes, but it was there."

In support of this assertion, he provides references to the following 10 message decodes in the archives:

(1): 1 "partially garbled" message of 4 June 1942, which Breitman describes as, "Hans Kammler alluded to a chimney for the crematorium. [32]", p 114, PRO HW 16/19, Item 10

(2): 2 messages on 18 June 1942, which Breitman describes as, "summoning Hoss to a private meeting with Kammler [34]", p 114, PRO HW 16/19, Items 17-18

(3): 1 message on 24 June 1942, which Breitman describes as, "summoning Hoss to a general meeting with all camp commanders led by Oswald Pohl on 25 June 1942 [34]", p 114 PRO HW 16/19, Item 32

(4): 2 messages on 20 November 1942, which Breitman describes as, "a November message that Auschwitz urgently needed six hundred gas masks to equip its new guards [37]", PRO HW 16/22, Items 38-39

(5): 4 messages of 14 January 1943, which Breitman describes as, "the WHVA passed along to the various camps an order from Himmler to compile the prisoner population each year since 1933 by category: political prisoners, criminals, Jews, Poles,. Spanish Communists, and Russians. Himmler wanted to know how many each camp had released each year and howmany had died. [38]", PRO HW 16/23 Items 13-16

So, as far as the archive GPCC messages are concerned, that's Breitman's treatment of the "difficult to find information about Birkenau and the factory-style process of mass murder" in the decodes. Birkenau is not mentioned in any of the BP HW16/65 GPCC OS series of summary reports.

It appears that in the overall scheme of things, the tangible historic evidence of the inmate totals intercepted at Bletchley Park, are relegated to second billing by Breitman and Terry, who both lay claim to that "ethereal dataset in the sky", thus:

Breitman's "BIg Exception":

"These statistics covered only the number of prisoners registered at the Auschwitz camps. The death total included those shot or beaten to death as well as those who died of disease or starvation. They omitted all Jews (and the smaller number of Gypsies) selected for the gas chambers immediately upon arrival. This omission - was it, too, a cloaking device?"

and Terry's, "Brave Attempt":

"The British analysis was a brave attempt to try to understand the causes of the high mortality rate in the camp. The limitations of the analysis, however, should be immediately apparent: the majority of deportees arriving at Auschwitz were gassed on arrival and never were registered in the camp; therefore, they did not show up in the prisoner returns."

Ditto for, Tomasz Kranz and Robert J Hanyok.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Bob » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:37 am)

Kingfisher wrote:If this figure is accurate, it does raise a few problems for Revisionists.


Can you specify it?

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:38 pm)

Bob wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:If this figure is accurate, it does raise a few problems for Revisionists.


Can you specify it?


Specify what?

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Moderator » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:57 pm)

Kingfisher,
Unless I'm wrong, I believe the request to "specify" has to do with "raise a few problems for Revisionists" that you claim. IOW, what specific problems are you referring to?
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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Cloud » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:27 pm)

Bob wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:If this figure is accurate, it does raise a few problems for Revisionists.


Can you specify it?


Not to be jerk, but I believe you meant to use the pronoun them, and not it, since the referent problems is plural. Hopefully, everything now should be clear for the reader.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Bob » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:00 pm)

Yes, I know that problems = plural. "It" = claim or statement he has made, i.e. "Can you specify your statement/claim?" - why this raise problems, which problems, where, and etc.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:27 am)

The figure raises problems which I explained in the post.

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Re: Concentration Camp Vital Statistics

Postby Bob » 4 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:48 am)

You refer to this:

If this figure is accurate, it does raise a few problems for Revisionists. According to to the article on Epidemic Typhus in Wikipedia, the mortality rate is 10% to 60%, but even in the Armies on the Eastern front in the First World War it was only 10% to 40%. An overall death rate of one third implies almost 100% infection combined with a mortality rate at the top end.


Where are these problems? I do not see them.


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