Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

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Hektor
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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hektor » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed May 27, 2015 5:29 pm)

Inquisitor wrote:I nearly forgot - this from the Wikipedia page also struck me as being entirely at odds with the experiences of most Waffen-SS soldiers held in captivity after the war.(especially those who served in the East)

Gröning and the rest of his SS colleagues were imprisoned in an old Nazi concentration camp.[2]:287 He was later sent to Britain as a forced labourer in 1946 where he had a "very comfortable life".[2]:287 He ate good food and earned money, and travelled through the Midlands and Scotland giving concerts for four months, singing German hymns and traditional English folk songs to grateful British audiences.[2]:287


Wow...really? Scores of your fellow W-SS comrades would have freely given a limb to have had such a cushy time of it! Most all of their experiences I've ever read about are nearly the polar opposite of that claim! Very odd...

Would be interesting to see, what exactly Groenings career in captivity was.

As it seems now he's playing the cooperative accused/witness. From what I read he now mutated from accountant to expert on homicidal Zyklon B gassings. That might be a mistake as it shows he's obfuscating what he read or heard long after the war with his own experiences.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed May 27, 2015 6:12 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:I nearly forgot - this from the Wikipedia page also struck me as being entirely at odds with the experiences of most Waffen-SS soldiers held in captivity after the war.(especially those who served in the East)

Gröning and the rest of his SS colleagues were imprisoned in an old Nazi concentration camp.[2]:287 He was later sent to Britain as a forced labourer in 1946 where he had a "very comfortable life".[2]:287 He ate good food and earned money, and travelled through the Midlands and Scotland giving concerts for four months, singing German hymns and traditional English folk songs to grateful British audiences.[2]:287


Wow...really? Scores of your fellow W-SS comrades would have freely given a limb to have had such a cushy time of it! Most all of their experiences I've ever read about are nearly the polar opposite of that claim! Very odd...

Would be interesting to see, what exactly Groenings career in captivity was.

As it seems now he's playing the cooperative accused/witness. From what I read he now mutated from accountant to expert on homicidal Zyklon B gassings. That might be a mistake as it shows he's obfuscating what he read or heard long after the war with his own experiences.


I would certainly like to know more about his wartime activities all around. I cannot so much as find what unit he was even with! This is decidedly unusual in my studies of the Waffen-SS. Nowhere does it seem to indicate what Division, Regiment, Battalion, Company or any such thing he was supposedly a part of. Indeed, there seems to be one very concise, and notably vague history of his service around the internet, that has him simply being "assigned" to Auschwitz, then later to some other unnamed unit, until his capture. I find all this odd - just as I do his undeniably mild experience after the war for an individual not only from the "criminal" Waffen-SS, but an Auschwitz functionary to boot!

Nothing about this man's story adds up for me.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 8 months ago (Thu May 28, 2015 5:48 am)

borjastick wrote:And so it continues...

Mr Groening's testimony is becoming more bizarre. Here is what he apparently has said in court today or maybe this was yesterday. He is giving a medical analysis of how Zyklon B afflicted its victims. It is something I have never read or heard of before. Anyone care to comment?

I am more convinced than ever that he is taking the piss, reading a script prepared to promote the holocaust myth but from the point of view of anyone who knows their stuff he is making it obvious that he doesn't believe any of the holocaust nonsense.

So here from today's Daily Mail...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... r-die.html

I think you have misunderstood who was speaking here, B. It was Sven Anders, the coroner, but I can understand the confusion as the Mail's version is ambiguous:
Groening, who arrived 30 minutes late to the hearing due to a traffic hold up, looked intently at him and twitched slightly as he said: 'Zyklon B is known as prussic acid. Only one in two people can smell the cyanide - but it has the smell of bitter almonds and marzipan.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby borjastick » 4 years 8 months ago (Thu May 28, 2015 8:08 am)

Clear as mud Kingfisher. How could a coroner make the claim about the effects of Zyklon B and the way it killed people with chest pain and the length of time. I thought this was what Mr Groening said or maybe it was a statement read by someone that he had asked to say.

As you say the DM's coverage on this piece is ambiguous. Do you have a link to a better and clearer report of this?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby borjastick » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:27 am)

So today it appeared that the prosecutor is after a three year sentence when Mr Groening is found guilty. But if I read this report correctly he may have 14 months or more deducted due to a previous charge on the same crime which was dropped before.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/07/p ... /21206071/
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby EtienneSC » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:57 am)

The verdict is in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33533264
(guilty, 3+1/2 years sentence plus costs). There was no medical-legal report, or investigation of the crime scene or alleged weapon during the trial. However, witnesses were heard. As far as I know, they were not cross-questioned, as Groening did not dispute the charges.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hektor » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:04 am)

EtienneSC wrote:The verdict is in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33533264
(guilty, 3+1/2 years sentence plus costs). There was no medical-legal report, or investigation of the crime scene or alleged weapon during the trial. However, witnesses were heard. As far as I know, they were not cross-questioned, as Groening did not dispute the charges.

Vague indeed:
His lawyers said he did not facilitate genocide, but prosecutors argued that he had helped the camp run smoothly.


Am I the only one that finds it funny they still got hordes of "survivors"?
The trial was held in the northern German city of Lueneburg, hearing testimony from several people who had survived the death camp.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby borjastick » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:40 am)

As someone once said -The holocaust is about the murder of six million jews that didn't exist in gas chambers that cannot be shown.

In Mr Groening's case he was convicted in the accessory to murder 300,000 jews. Jews who cannot be shown to have been murdered and is put in a court room in front of so called 'witnesses' and 'survivors' who saw nothing and weren't even cross examined, because that might allow some chinks in the armour.

No one has explained why he didn't argue the case against the holocaust having happened, after all how could they have done anything worse to him? perhaps he will get time off for the trial period and serve only a few months. Let's hope so.

So when do the trials start of the air crew on Enola Gay etc?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby hermod » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:12 am)

The final scene of this bad theater play is quite easy to foresee:

Many observers have questioned whether Groening will ultimately be sent to jail, given his advanced age.


- You're free, Mr Gröning. Thanks for your help in the crushing of the 'evil deniers'. The money is already on your bank account, as promised. Spoil your grandkids with it.



[Standing ovation, big tears in the actors' eyes, and the curtain falling amid applause]
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby ginger » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:32 am)

I noticed that the almost 300,000 deaths Groening is accused of facilitating were of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz in May and June 1944. So in two months close to 300,000 were killed and cremated at Auschwitz. The Nazis could not dispose of close to 300,000 bodies in two months. Why wasn't this questioned? But this was a show trial. I'm sad to see Germany advocating this foolishness.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby borjastick » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:55 am)

I noticed, on the BBC TV report of the sentencing of Mr Groening today, that a Jewish spokeswoman representing one or other of the jewish groups wanting these ailing so called 'war criminals' brought to trial, could only repeat the same old, tired and thoroughly busted myths and claims :

    The most documented crime in human history

    Proven by all the witnesses

    Proven by all the survivors

I just hope many people ask themselves what proof they have seen, how just is it that a man who only counted money and did some petty book keeping work can be convicted of accessory to murder of 300,000 people!

Hopefully some may even ask themselves whether indeed it was possible and true.

The bad news for holocaust believers is that the actions of the militant, apartheid state of israel ruin it for every decent jew who isn't hell bent on the holocaust myth and zionism.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Horhug » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:58 pm)

Another sordid Holocaust tale ...

Holocaust Controversies admits that A S Marques was correct about the Oskar Gröning "I saw the gas chambers ..." missing dialogue:


HC: When deniers are right

Friday, April 07, 2006

Holocaust deniers are seldom right, even in the details. But, very rarely, their claims of falsified evidence do turn out to be correct. Such is the case with Laurence Rees' Auschwitz documentary.

The transcript of the part 6 contains the following text:

Oskar Gröning: "I see it as my task, now at my age, to face up to these things that I experienced and to oppose the Holocaust deniers who claim that Auschwitz never happened. And that's why I am here today. Because I want to tell those deniers: I have seen the gas chambers, I have seen the crematoria, I have seen the burning pits - and I want you to believe me that these atrocities happened. I was there."


I emphasized the critical part. Portuguese denier A S Marques wrote a letter to David Irving, in which he pointed out that the words "the gas chambers" were absent from Groening's speech in the documentary itself - both in the original German, and in the translation.

Upon checking, this claim turned out to be correct. Somebody has deliberately inserted the words "the gas chambers" into the transcript, and they've spread over the Web. This is the kind of thing that keeps deniers ticking.

Update: Mr. Rees has clarified the issue in the comments. Also see this posting. It's weird that the editor(s) chose to cut out these most important words.

Posted by Sergey Romanov at 5:09 p.m.
Labels: Auschwitz, gas chambers, Laurence Rees, mainstream mistakes, Oskar Groening

Comments:

Laurence Rees said...

Actually the transcript correctly represents what Mr Groening said in his interview. He did say he had seen the gas chambers. But these words were not used in the final edited sequence of the film.

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:18:00 p.m.


Nick Terry said...

Is there any chance of making the full, uncut video of this segment available online? Since as you now appreciate, deniers are twisting the wording.

Note that I don't see any difference with saying 'crematoria' only. That was the term in use, after all.

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:23:00 p.m.


Laurence Rees said...

I do take your point. I know the BBC is looking at trying to make much more information available online. But I fear it won't silence the deniers as - in my view - they are like the flat earth society and simply deaf to reason. Meantime much fuller versions of Mr Groening's testimony are already available in published form in the book of the series which I wrote. On page 373 of the British paperback edition, for example, you can read a more complete section of his interview where he talks about seeing the gas chambers. It was this section which was edited down for inclusion in programme six of the series. Elsewhere, on page 207 he describes seeing the Zyklon B inserted into a gas chamber.

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:25:00 p.m


Nick Terry said...

Thankyou for pointing all this out. I'll post a follow-up on this.

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:43:00 p.m.


Sergey Romanov said...

Nick: "Note that I don't see any difference with saying 'crematoria' only. That was the term in use, after all."

There is a difference, because not all gas chambers were in the crematoria, and seeing the crematoria themselves does not prove anything. Thus the words are important.

Anyway, the original complaint has been justified (even if mistaken) - sloppy editing practices like this cannot be expected a priori, thus I obviously assumed, when not hearing the word "gas chambers" in the middle of the sentence that Groening did not say those words.

Actually, I'm still not sure if they have been edited out (this makes no sense, frankly; does it make sense to you?) or whether Groening said the nearly identical phrase, omitting the words "gas chambers", and this was used in the final version.

If, however, it turns out that the words were excised from mid-sentence, the question is: what else was edited out?

Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:37:00 p.m.

...





The post referred to above, from Dr. Nick "the crematoria are the same as gas chambers" Terry, who, apparently gets paid to edjakate folk, on this very subject ...



Wednesday, April 12, 2006

"I have seen the gas chambers, I have seen the crematoria"

We've received clarification of our post about the widely circulated Oskar Groening interview for the BBC Auschwitz series.

Though we pointed up a discrepancy between the English transcript and German audiotrack of Groening's interview, it turns out, according to director Laurence Rees, that

the transcript correctly represents what Mr Groening said in his interview. He did say he had seen the gas chambers. But these words were not used in the final edited sequence of the film. Much fuller versions of Mr Groening's testimony are already available in published form in the book of the series which I wrote. On page 373 of the British paperback edition, for example, you can read a more complete section of his interview where he talks about seeing the gas chambers. It was this section which was edited down for inclusion in programme six of the series. Elsewhere, on page 207 he describes seeing the Zyklon B inserted into a gas chamber.


Unlike deniers, at least we publish corrections.

Posted by Nicholas Terry at 4:45 p.m.

Labels: Auschwitz, gas chambers, mainstream mistakes, Oskar Groening





Marvellous.

The accused is alleged to have actually said the words "I saw the gas chambers", you know the very fulcrum of the entire narrative, but, for reasons known only to the fantasists, those alleged spoken words were, edited out ...


Labels: Nonsense. BS. Childish Lies. Same old, same old Holocaust claptrap ...

Having endured the BiBiC series of the same name, I have resisted buying the Laurence Rees "epic", The Nazis & The 'Final Solution', but, checking the references at the Oskar Gröning Wikipedia page, it looks like the entire OG narrative is a solitary "Laurence Rees production."

The Rees book is referenced extensively and is the earliest reference ( 2005 ) of all the points in the Wiki narrative.

See also: Laurence Rees: The Oskar Groening I met

So, all the world has to "go on" with the OG narrative are the words printed in the Laurence Rees book, allegedly spoken by the, then, 83 old Oskar Gröning ...

Honest.



.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:38 pm)

Hektor wrote:
EtienneSC wrote:.
Am I the only one that finds it funny they still got hordes of "survivors"?


It certainly is one of the more glaring contradictions in their overriding "genocide/extermination" narrative.

What's more, over the years I've noticed that "survivors," particularly the more vocal types, almost invariably claim to have been at one or more the well-known camps. When do you ever hear one of these public-speaking, oft-quoted "survivors" claim only that they were in, say, Kaiserwald or some such? Nay, it seems to me it is nearly always the familiar locations, and more often than not - with no small amount of irony included - at least one of the "death camps" ala Auschwitz, or one of the camps formerly claimed to have been sites of mass murder such as Dachau, Buchenwald, etc. Hmmm...


__________

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Mulegino1 » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:46 pm)

Hannover wrote:The problem is not that Zyklon-B is deadly and could be used against humans, but it's the alleged and impossible method of it's use which proves it was not used against humans. The process within the storyline is utterly absurd and easily debunked.
see here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... ues#p72368

Revisionists are just the messengers.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.


Particularly absurd when you consider the fact that the Germans are alleged to have conducted their delousing and their mass gassings with Zyklon-B in parallel technical universes, i.e., state of the art delousing chambers with hot air blowers, powerful circulation and extractor fans, ventilation pipes, and automation to open the canister inside the chamber versus dropping pellets onto an unheated floor through the holes (which never existed anyway) in the roof.

Why would camp accountant Groening have been anywhere near the gas chamber? Did Hoess order him to retrieve some tattoos for Ilse Koch?

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:33 pm)

Mulegino1 wrote:Why would camp accountant Groening have been anywhere near the gas chamber? Did Hoess order him to retrieve some tattoos for Ilse Koch?


If a "witness" say so then yes, of course he did! Nothing ever need be tangibly supported in the Holo-verse. If the "right" person claims it happened...it happened, and to question it, regardless of it being demonstrably false or physically impossible is an act of "anti-Semitism" and "hate," to say nothing of officially illegal in many counties. :roll:

And this, supposedly reasonable, intelligent and fair-minded people accept without reservation.

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