Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:14 pm)

Hermod, the point is that he's not describing what usually had to go for gas chamber as far as Auschwitz is concerned. There morgues of crematoria had to pass as homicidal "gas chambers" in the orthodox Holocaust narrative. Sure Groening would have known which facilities the crematoria were and said this in his description.
He described standing with another guard as he dumped the poison Zyklon B into a panel above a mass “shower room” and how he could hear the screams diminish after that.


Fact is he didn't. But told a story usually included into the orthodox narrative of other camps.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby starviego » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:36 pm)

Her brother survived, and returned to Hungary... Working as an electrician, a fire caused a building to be damaged, so the Soviets charged him with treason and he was castrated.


Castrated? Seriously? Can anybody believe this nonsense?

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:59 pm)

Hektor wrote:Hermod, the point is that he's not describing what usually had to go for gas chamber as far as Auschwitz is concerned. There morgues of crematoria had to pass as homicidal "gas chambers" in the orthodox Holocaust narrative. Sure Groening would have known which facilities the crematoria were


Weren't the morgues allegedly converted into gas chambers supposed to pass as fake shower rooms so that the doomed victims entered those rooms willingly, without resistance?
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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:30 pm)

hermod wrote:...
Weren't the morgues allegedly converted into gas chambers supposed to pass as fake shower rooms so that the doomed victims entered those rooms willingly, without resistance?

I recall there was some fuss being made about wood blocks supposedly used to screw shower rooms on. But the morgues are still the morgues.

I just hopes he gets questioned on more details about that.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Maly Jacek » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:36 am)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32450169
"One of the women survivors of Auschwitz who brought the charges against Mr Groening demanded that he should make a statement to what she called the "young neo-Nazis of today" - to the Holocaust deniers - telling them that Auschwitz really did exist"

That basically shows what this trial is all about.
The quote above was another ignorant remark - Auschwitz really did exist, as a normal concentration camp with brothel, football field (very close to the alleged gas chambers) camp orchestra, civilian contractors working all around the camp, etc.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:48 am)

Maly Jacek wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32450169
"One of the women survivors of Auschwitz who brought the charges against Mr Groening demanded that he should make a statement to what she called the "young neo-Nazis of today" - to the Holocaust deniers - telling them that Auschwitz really did exist"
Forbidding the public to look at what revisionists really say is what enables them to get away with such absurd and damaging straw men.
That basically shows what this trial is all about.
The quote above was another ignorant remark - Auschwitz really did exist, as a normal concentration camp with brothel, football field (very close to the alleged gas chambers) camp orchestra, civilian contractors working all around the camp, etc.
I wouldn't overemphasise the brothel. It was certainly only for the trusties and I doubt the girls were freelancers. The football pitch with a front row view of the gas chamber and the civilian contractors are good points, though.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Atigun » 5 years 2 months ago (Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:59 pm)

Here's some more concerning the Groening trial. http://praxis-mag.blogspot.com/2015/04/ ... es-of.html

As the article states, the trial seems to be degenerating into farce. Clearly, the old man is having trouble with his memory to say the least. I think it quite possible that this "trial" is going to be seen as a case of the Jews viciously hounding an old man to give "evidence" that he is incapable of understanding.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Jurgen » 5 years 2 months ago (Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:59 pm)

Winter is such an easy read. So clear, concise and comprehensible.
"The Holocaust narrative actually breaks down on a discrete, factual level, and is only tenable when it is presented as some vague or nebulous larger than life metahistorical event" Mulegino1

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri May 15, 2015 5:30 pm)

Atigun wrote:Here's some more concerning the Groening trial. http://praxis-mag.blogspot.com/2015/04/ ... es-of.html

As the article states, the trial seems to be degenerating into farce. Clearly, the old man is having trouble with his memory to say the least. I think it quite possible that this "trial" is going to be seen as a case of the Jews viciously hounding an old man to give "evidence" that he is incapable of understanding.

The legality is already in question, even among people that aren't Revisionists, but main stream.

Anyway, wikipedia (the English version diverges a little from the German one on this) states that Groening responded to Thies Christophersen's brochure:
Gröning said little in response to these statements,[2]:300 replying only: "I know a little more about that, we should discuss it some time."[3] The man recommended a pamphlet by Holocaust denier Thies Christophersen.[3] Gröning obtained a copy and mailed it to Christophersen, having written his own commentary on it, which included the words:

"I saw everything," he writes. "The gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there." [3]

Gröning then began receiving phone calls and letters from strangers who tried to tell him Auschwitz was not actually a place for exterminating human beings in gas chambers.[2]:300

It became apparent that his comments condemning Holocaust denial had been printed in a neo-Nazi magazine, and that most of the anonymous calls and letters were, "From people who tried to prove that what I had seen with my own eyes, what I had experienced in Auschwitz was a big, big mistake, a big hallucination on my part because it hadn't happened."[2]:300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning
Does anyone know anything about this commentary? I mean know the content and how it is in or out of line with further statements by Groening (The Zyklon B into the showers claim, being different from the standard version for Auschwitz)?

It seems Groening and what is said he said, was already familiar to some in 2005:
Hannover @ statements of Hans Munch

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby NLH » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri May 15, 2015 6:00 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Atigun wrote:Here's some more concerning the Groening trial. http://praxis-mag.blogspot.com/2015/04/ ... es-of.html

As the article states, the trial seems to be degenerating into farce. Clearly, the old man is having trouble with his memory to say the least. I think it quite possible that this "trial" is going to be seen as a case of the Jews viciously hounding an old man to give "evidence" that he is incapable of understanding.

The legality is already in question, even among people that aren't Revisionists, but main stream.

Anyway, wikipedia (the English version diverges a little from the German one on this) states that Groening responded to Thies Christophersen's brochure:
Gröning said little in response to these statements,[2]:300 replying only: "I know a little more about that, we should discuss it some time."[3] The man recommended a pamphlet by Holocaust denier Thies Christophersen.[3] Gröning obtained a copy and mailed it to Christophersen, having written his own commentary on it, which included the words:

"I saw everything," he writes. "The gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there." [3]

Gröning then began receiving phone calls and letters from strangers who tried to tell him Auschwitz was not actually a place for exterminating human beings in gas chambers.[2]:300

It became apparent that his comments condemning Holocaust denial had been printed in a neo-Nazi magazine, and that most of the anonymous calls and letters were, "From people who tried to prove that what I had seen with my own eyes, what I had experienced in Auschwitz was a big, big mistake, a big hallucination on my part because it hadn't happened."[2]:300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning
Does anyone know anything about this commentary? I mean know the content and how it is in or out of line with further statements by Groening (The Zyklon B into the showers claim, being different from the standard version for Auschwitz)?

It seems Groening and what is said he said, was already familiar to some in 2005:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f ... ing#p13279


The "I saw the Gas chambers" re. Laurence Rees has been thrown into serious doubt here in this thread, plus it is discussed at the below two links (also see comments in those links)

When deniers are right
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... right.html

"I have seen the gas chambers, I have seen the crematoria"
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -seen.html

Now the above is dead in the water, we have him allegedly saying the same thing to Thies Christophersen. The source for this, as per wikipedia above, is:

Geyer, Matthias (May 9, 2005). "An SS Officer Remembers: The Bookkeeper from Auschwitz". Der Spiegel. ( http://web.archive.org/web/200703020850 ... 88,00.html ) Archived from the original. ( http://www.spiegel.de/international/spi ... 88,00.html)

But I really cannot take anything this Gröning character says seriously. I mean, aside from everything else in this thread alone, we have:

Oskar Groening and the Erect Penises of Auschwitz
http://peterwinterwriting.blogspot.co.u ... es-of.html

Oskar Groening Court Case Opens: And the “Gas Chambers” Change Location Once Again
http://peterwinterwriting.blogspot.co.u ... d-gas.html
"Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."
- Kitty Hart-Moxon, Jewish Holocaust Survivor.

June 1998 testimony, USC Shoah Foundation, Visual History Archive.
Part 2 - YouTube - 1:21:42

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Dresden » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri May 15, 2015 6:38 pm)

Atigun said:

"As the article states, the trial seems to be degenerating into farce"

Well, whodathunkit?

"Clearly, the old man is having trouble with his memory to say the least"

He is having trouble remembering what his handlers told him to say; they should have given him cue cards, like Rudolf Vrba's "diagrams" that he used to "keep his lies straight" in the Zundel trial.

From: "Rudolf Vrba": The Holohoax in Person

by Eyewitness & Survivor Eric Thomson
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/html-docs/et001.htm

"Now we come to the crude and grotesque diagrams used by Vrba-Rosenberg "to keep his lies straight", in the words of defense counsel. The jew claimed to have scrawled these blotches shortly after he "escaped" from Auschwitz.

Without looking at them, it seemed impossible for him to testify and when he gave testimony, it could never be taken out of the order in which he recited, like spooling an audio tape backwards and starting again. Many spectators in the courtroom, including myself, noted and commented upon Vrba-Rosenberg's peculiarity of "recollection". "
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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri May 15, 2015 6:59 pm)

Gröning led a normal middle class life after the war.[3] A keen stamp collector, he was once at his local philately club's annual meeting more than 40 years after the war, when he fell into a conversation about politics with the man next to him.[2


"I saw everything," he writes. "The gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there." [3]


So 40 years after the war...this exchange supposedly took place around 1985 or so, then? It seems remarkable here that he would reference that perfect, official 1.5 million figure, which wasn't technically "announced" until around 1990, as far as I know - and the monument plates not changed until years after that. And what are the odds he would be familiar with claims, like those of Yehuda Bauer? And even those were from around 1989 or so, if I recall correctly.

Nothing this man has said yet strikes me as believable. Every last comment/admission reads like a script right out of the Official Holocaust-Lore Handbook.

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri May 15, 2015 7:06 pm)

I nearly forgot - this from the Wikipedia page also struck me as being entirely at odds with the experiences of most Waffen-SS soldiers held in captivity after the war.(especially those who served in the East)

Gröning and the rest of his SS colleagues were imprisoned in an old Nazi concentration camp.[2]:287 He was later sent to Britain as a forced labourer in 1946 where he had a "very comfortable life".[2]:287 He ate good food and earned money, and travelled through the Midlands and Scotland giving concerts for four months, singing German hymns and traditional English folk songs to grateful British audiences.[2]:287


Wow...really? Scores of your fellow W-SS comrades would have freely given a limb to have had such a cushy time of it! Most all of their experiences I've ever read about are nearly the polar opposite of that claim! Very odd...


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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby borjastick » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed May 27, 2015 1:45 pm)

And so it continues...

Mr Groening's testimony is becoming more bizarre. Here is what he apparently has said in court today or maybe this was yesterday. He is giving a medical analysis of how Zyklon B afflicted its victims. It is something I have never read or heard of before. Anyone care to comment?

I am more convinced than ever that he is taking the piss, reading a script prepared to promote the holocaust myth but from the point of view of anyone who knows their stuff he is making it obvious that he doesn't believe any of the holocaust nonsense.

So here from today's Daily Mail...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... r-die.html
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Oskar Groning - 'I saw the gas chambers...'

Postby Hannover » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed May 27, 2015 3:58 pm)

The problem is not that Zyklon-B is deadly and could be used against humans, but it's the alleged and impossible method of it's use which proves it was not used against humans. The process within the storyline is utterly absurd and easily debunked.
see here:
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Revisionists are just the messengers.

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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