wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassings

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wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassings

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:19 am)

F.P. Berg's debate has raised the question of how fast Auschwitz gassings were, according to the witnesses. I would like to gather all testimonies pertaining to that subject on this thread.

We have to specify just what duration we are talking about. Mr. Berg focused on time to death - but even that has to be examined carefully. There will be many different figures: time to collapse, time to silence, time to immobility, time to cessation of respiration, time until the heart stops beating. These quantities are not equal. There are also testimonies on time until ventilation was turned on, time until the door was opened, time until workers entered the chamber, etc. These times can all be different.

We also have to separate testimonies by location - times for gassings in krema 2 need not relate to times for gassings in the bunkers, and so on.

Please include full quotes with as much context as possible.

Germar Rudolf offers this list of testimonies. Some of them require more context to interpret precisely.

With relation to the killing times, see in, for example: Schwurgericht Hagen, verdict from July 24, 1970, ref. 11 Ks 1/70, p. 97 (5 min.); Final Trial Brief of the Prosecution, quoted acc. to U. Walendy, Auschwitz im IG-Farben-Prozeß, op. cit. (note 161), pp. 47-50 (3 to 15 minutes in extreme cases); E. Kogon et al., op. cit. (note 46), ubiquitous (immediately up to 10 min., more rarely up to 20 min.); J. Buszko (ed.), Auschwitz, Nazi Extermination Camp, Interpress Publishers, Warschau 21985, in cooperation with the Auschwitz State Museum, pp. 114 + 118 (a few minutes); H.G. Adler, H. Langbein, E. Lingens-Reiner (ed.), Auschwitz, Europäische Verlagsanstalt, Cologne 31984, pp. 66, 80 + 200 (a few minutes, up to 10 minutes); Hamburger In-
stitut für Sozialforschung (ed.), Die Auschwitz-Hefte, vol. 1, Beltz Verlag, Weinheim 1987, pp. 261ff. +294 (instantly, up to 10 min.); C. Vaillant-Couturier, in: IMT, vol. VI, p. 216 (5 to 7 min.); M. Nyiszli in: G. Schoenberner (ed.), Wir haben es gesehen, Fourier, Wiesbaden 1981, p. 250 (5 min.); C.P. Bendel in: H. Langbein, Menschen in Auschwitz, Europaverlag, Vienna 1987, p. 221 (end of screaming of victims after 2 min.); P. Broad in: B. Naumann, Auschwitz, Athenäum, Frankfurt/Main 1968, p. 217 (4 min.), opening of doors after 10-15 minutes: A. Rückerl, NS-Verbrechen vor Gericht, C.F. Müller, Heidelberg, 21984, pp. 58f.; K. Hölbinger in: H. Langbein, Der Auschwitz-Prozeß, Europäische Verlagsanstalt, Frankfurt/Main 1965, p. 73 (1 min.); R. Böck, ibid., p. 74 (screaming victims for 10 minutes following closure of doors, followed by opening of doors, cf. note 313); H. Stark, ibid., p. 439 (screaming victims for 10- 15 minutes); F. Müller, ibid., p. 463 (8-10 min.); E. Pyš, ibid., p. 748 (ventilators switched on after only a few minutes); K. Lill, ibid., p. 750 (a scream a few seconds after the introduction of Zyklon B, pall of thick smoke exiting the chimney a few minutes later); transcript of the expert opinion of Prof. Dr. G. Jagschitz, 3rd-5th hearing days of criminal proceedings against Gerd Honsik, April 4., April 30, May 4, 1992, ref. 20e Vr 14184 and Hv 5720/90, District Court Vienna, p. 443 (2-3 min); Dokument 3868-PS, IMT volume 33, pp. 275ff., quoted according to L. Rosenthal, “Endlösung der Judenfrage,” Massenmord oder “Gaskammerlüge”?, Verlag Darmstädter Blätter, Darmstadt 1979 (2 to 15 minutes in exceptional cases); R. Höß, op. cit. (note 311: he mentions 30 minutes, after which the men of the Sonderkommando went into the
chamber without gas masks, hence ventilation must have been included in that time, although Höß stated that it was turned on only at the time of entry – an impossible claim); Hans Münch, in G. Rudolf, “Auschwitz-Kronzeuge Dr. Hans Münch im Gespräch,” VffG, 1(3) (1997), pp. 139-190 (2 to 5 min. in winter); Salmen Lewenthal, Hefte von Auschwitz, Sonderheft 1, Handschriften von Mitgliedern des Sonderkommandos, Verlag Staatliches Museum Auschwitz, 1972, p. 155 (sudden silence); Dov Paisikovic, in: Léon Poliakov, Auschwitz, René Julliard, 1964, pp. 159ff. (3-4 minute), Franke-Gricksch Report, in: J.-C. Pressac, op. cit. (note 72), p. 238 (one minute to kill the victims, another until the doors were opened); Rudolf Vrba alias Walter Rosenberg, Alfred Wetzler, ref. M 20/153, Yad Vashem (acc. to War Refugee Board, “German Extermination Camps – Auschwitz and Birkenau,” in: David S. Wyman (ed.), America and the Holocaust, volume 12, Garland, New York/London 1990, p. 20 (everyone in the room was dead after three minutes); Jerzy Tabeau, in: The Extermination Camps of Auschwitz (Oswiecim) and Birkenau in Upper Silesia (10 minutes, quoted according to Enrique Aynat, Los protocolos de Auschwitz. i Una fuente historica? Verlag Garcia Hispan, Alicante 1990); André Lettich, Trente-quatre mois dans les Camps de Concentration, Imprimerie Union Coopérative, Tours, 1946 (a few moments). Janda Weiss, in: David E. Hackett, (ed.), The Buchenwald Report, Beck, Munich 1997, p. 394 (3 min.). If longer killing times appear in the eyewitness testimonies, they refer, not to Crematoria II and III, but, rather, to Crematoria IV/V, bunkers 1-2, or Crematorium I in the Main Camp. The killings in Crematoria II and III are therefore alleged to have been committed very quickly.


Roberto Muehlenkamp offers the following examples of testimonies for long gassing times:

Höss:

The process could be observed through the peep hole in the door. Those who were standing next to the air shaft were killed immediately. I can state that about one-third died immediately. The remainder staggered about and began to scream and struggle for air. The screaming, however, soon changed to gasping and in a few moments everyone lay still. After twenty minutes at the most, no movement could be detected. The time required for the gas to take effect varied according to weather conditions and depended on whether it was damp or dry, cold or warm. It also depended on the quality of the gas, which was never exactly the same, and on the composition of the transports, which might contain a high proportion of healthy Jews, or the old and sick, or children. The victims became unconscious after a few minutes, according to the distance from the air shaft. Those who screamed and those who were old, sick, or weak, or the small children died quicker than those who were healthy or young.


The testimony is rather self contradictory - everyone lay still after a few moments, but it took up to 20 minutes for there to be general immobility. The version quoted in the anthology Nazi Mass Murder edited by Kogon et al reads somewhat differently: minutes rather than moments, and people on the ground rather than lying still, which makes more sense (see images). Does anyone have the German text(s) handy? What is the actual wording?

Hoess has the ventilation being turned on and the door opened and removal of the corpses initiated (all three simultaneously!) after 30 minutes. The episode takes place in the Birkenau kremas. It's not very specific, but presumably takes place in krema II/III.

h1.jpg

h2.jpg




Hans Stark:

(...)As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.


A few minutes until silence; 10-15 minutes (additional or total?) until chamber was opened. Note that Stark's description ("it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in") precludes the use of "introduction columns" to remove the zyklon, so after (10-15)+(a few) minutes when the chamber was opened it was still outgassing.

Nizkor gives a little more context:

At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children. As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in.


So Stark is talking about krema I. Carlo Mattogno has much more info in his book on krema I:

SS-Unterscharführer Hans Stark served at Auschwitz from Christmas 1940 to November 1942. In June 1941 he joined the Political Department. In the summer of 1942 he was made Oberscharführer. On April 23, 1959, he was interrogated by the Landeskriminalamt Baden-Württemberg during the preparation of the Frankfurt trial. On that occasion, he declared:250
“As early as the autumn of 1941 gassings were carried out in a room of the small crematorium, the room having been fitted for that purpose. It could take in some 200–250 people, was higher than a normal living room, had no windows, and only one door that had been made [gas] tight and had a lock like the door of an air-raid shelter. There were no pipes or anything, which could have led the detainees to believe they were in a shower-room. In the ceiling, a certain distance apart, there were two openings with a diameter of about 35 centimeters. This room had a flat roof, which caused daylight to enter through these openings. The granular Zyklon B was poured in through the openings. The Zyklon B was stored in the SS sickbay. Who it was that had hit on the idea of using this product for the gassing of people I do not know, but it was rumored among the camp SS personnel that in the fall of 1941 the product had been tried out for the first time for the gassing of detainees in a cell of block 11. I do not know who had ordered and carried out this test, but it was said that Schutzhaftlagerführer Fritzsch had been present. I do not know any details.
As I have already said, the first gassing was carried out in the small crematorium in the fall of 1941. As with the shootings, I was requested by Grabner to come to the Krema in order to check the number. Initially, I did not know that there was to be a gassing. Near the Krema there were some 200–250 Jewish men, women, and children, babies may have been among them, all ages. Without being able to name any names, I can say that quite a number of SS personnel were present – the camp commander, Schutzhaftlagerführer, several Blockführer, Grabner, and other members of the Political Department. The Jews were not told anything, they were simply requested to enter the gassing room, the door of which stood open. During that time, the medics prepared the gassing. Earth had been banked up to ceiling level against one of the outside walls of the gassing room so that they could get on top of the room. Once all the Jews were in the room, it was bolted, and the medics poured the Zyklon B into the openings. I do not remember how many cans of Zyklon B were used, but it was more than one. I cannot give the names of the medics. [...] At a later gassing – still in the autumn of 1941 – I received an order from Grabner to pour Zyclon B into the opening, because only one medic had come, and it was necessary for a gassing to pour Zyclon B into both openings at the same time. This gassing, again, concerned a transport of 200–250 Jews, and again there were men, women, and children, to be pre-
cise. As I have already stated, this Zyclon B was granular, and thus it would run down over the people when it was being poured in. They then started to make a terrible noise, for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look down through the opening because the openings had to be closed immediately once the Zyclon B had been introduced. A few minutes later, it was quiet. After some time, perhaps 10–15 minutes, the gassing room was opened. The dead people lay every which way, it was a
dreadful sight. The detainee Kommando of the Krema then took the gassed to the Krema. On account of my job as head of the registration department, I was thus present at each gassing or shooting. How many people were killed in my presence during that period, I cannot say. I cannot say either, how many gassings were carried out in my presence. It was the same number of persons each time.”


Hans Stark indicated that in the alleged gas chamber only Jews were gassed:251
“During the gassings, which, as already indicated, had started as early as the autumn of 1941 and at which I was present, only Jews were gassed; to be precise, they were always new arrivals.”

At the Auschwitz trial, Stark comes back to the alleged homicidal gassings:252
Stark: Grabner told me there would be a transport and I should be ready. The transport had been announced for the evening, some time between 20 and 21 hours, but it arrived only around 22 hours. Then it turned out that those were not people to be registered but people that had been sentenced to death by a court-martial. The commander ordered them to be taken to the small crematorium to be gassed there.
Presiding judge: How many were there?
S: I do not know. There may have been 150 or 200 of them. After all, it was 4 truckloads. It was Jews and Poles.
PJ: Women too?
S: Yes sir, also.
PJ: Children too?
S: No children were coming to Auschwitz in 1941. The lists were compared and once they had been read out, we moved on to the small crematorium.
PJ: What were the detainees told?
S: Nothing, they were already informed.
PJ: Informed about what?
S: That they would be shot. Once all were inside, the man on top who was responsible for the gassing got ready. Usually, two people were needed. But he was alone. He called down that he needed another one. I was the only one who was still standing around in the group of Führers present, the others were busy in the gassing room. So Grabner said: ‘Go and help!’ I did not move right away. Then the Schutzhaftlagerführer came up and said: ‘Get moving!’ and the commander said: ‘If you do not climb
up there, you will be put in with the others.’ So I had to go up and help the man above pour.

The alleged first homicidal gassing in crematorium I took place, according to Stark, in October 1941,253 but that date is at variance with the one given by Czech (September 16, 1941). As far as the alleged gas chamber is concerned, Stark says only that it had “one door that had been made specially tight”, but the morgue had two doors.254 He speaks of “two openings with a diameter of about 35 centimeters”– hence they were round – which squarely contradicts Broad’s data: 6 square openings 10 by 10 centimeters. The victims were “only Jews,” whereas according to Rudolf Höss they were only Soviet prisoners of war.
The gassing, in which Stark claimed to have directly participated, concerned “200–250 Jews” or, likewise, “150 or 200 [...] Jews and Poles”; the victims were gassed for being Jews and, at the same time, because they were “people that had been sentenced to death by a court-martial.” In this connection, there obviously were no “children,” but then, on the other hand, the victims were “men, women, and children.”
The witness claims to have been present at each gassing in his capacity of “head of the registration department,” his specific task being to check the number of victims, yet he was unable to say anything about the total number of victims of the alleged gassings, or about the number of gassings carried out in his presence!
Stark claims that the gassings had to be carried out by pouring Zyklon B through the two openings at the same time. Why at the same time? Was there any need for this? None at all. We have here, in fact, a simple literary expedient resorted to by Stark in order to introduce the story of his participation in a homicidal gassing against his will, under threat of death from the commander himself. Such cheap shenanigans on the part of the accused enabled him to show a “cooperative” attitude, and were aimed at mollifying the judges. Stark had, in fact, been called as a witness by Erwin Bartel and by Filip Müller, and a full “confession” was for him the only way of getting through the trial with minimum punishment. His strategy, though, did not avail him much: he was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment.255


Miklos Nyiszli:

(...)The granulated substance fell in a lump to the bottom. The gas it produced escaped through the perforations, and within a few seconds filled the room in which the deportees were stacked. Within five minutes everybody was dead... In order to be certain of their business the two gas-butchers waited another five minutes. Then they lighted cigarettes and drove off in their car. They had just killed 3,000 innocents.... Twenty minutes later the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the gas.


Five minutes until everyone died; 30 minutes until ventilation turned on. I won't bother pointing out everything wrong with Nyiszli's account - it's well known, and would need a thread of its own. This story occurs in chapter 7 of his book, pp. 78-89. It's loaded with basic errors.

Andre Lettich:

Then SS-Unterscharfuhrer Moll dropped the gas through a little window. The cries that could be heard were frightening, but after a few moments complete silence reigned. Twenty to twenty-five minutes later the windows and doors were opened to air the room, and the corpses were immediately thrown into ditches, where they were burned


Lettich is speaking about the bunkers; here is some context for his statement.

l1.jpg

l2.jpg


Mattogno has much more information on this testimony in his book on the bunkers, pp. 97-100.



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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Moderator » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:08 pm)

This from another thread:
Lohengrin wrote:
Friedrich Paul Berg: "I have just been going through my Hilberg books and I cannot find any specific number at all, yet. Perhaps someone else can help."

I find in my Dutch version of Hilberg's 'The Destruction of . . ." (ISBN 978-90-74274-14-2, 2008 (my translation of p. 1200): ". . . Untersturmfuehrer Grabner watched the procedure with a chronometer in his hand (source: Perry Broad, subordinate of Grabner, Dec. 14, 1945, NI 11397). After the first globules(!!) released the gas, the victims started screaming [. . .] The death-struggle took about two minutes, after which the moaning stopped. Within a quarter (sometimes after five minutes everybody in the gas chamber was dead."

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:55 pm)

Many thanks to Lohengrin for his post on another thread . The same text, more or less but with an important change possibly, also appears on page 975 of Volume 3 of my hardbound English version of Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews from 1985.

...Untersturmfuehrer Grabner, political officer of the camp, stood ready with the stopwatch in hand, ref.92 As the first pellets sublimated on the floor of the chamber, the victims began to scream. To escape from the rising gas, the stronger knocked down the weaker, stepping on prostrate victims in order to prolong their own lives by reaching gas-free layers of air. The agony lasted for about two minutes, and as the shrieking subsided, the dying people slumped over. Within fifteen minutes (sometimes five), everyone in the gas chamber was dead.


One major difference, however, is that the wording is not simply within a quote at all but appears as a conclusion of Hilberg himself with the affidavit NI-11397 by Perry Broad as the reference. The next step for us is to examine Perry Broad's actual text--i.e. NI-11397.

The Hilberg text continues from page 975 to page 976 as follows: The corpses were pink in color, with green spots.
As reference 93 for the above, Hilberg includes four different sources: one of which, however and this is amazing, is Mueller Eyewitness Auschwitz, pp 116-118. Mueller actually says on page 117 that "Many had turned blue, and many faces were disfigured beyond recognition." There is no mention in the Mueller text anywhere of corpses being pink, or red, or with green spots. As far as I know, Hoess only said there was: no discoloration. Hilberg had clearly cherry-picked contradictory evidence to concoct a story which seemed, to him at least, most credible, Shame, shame, shame on Hilberg!

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The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:12 pm)

Here is Hilberg's text, from the 3rd edition. The time he gives - fifteen minutes, sometimes five - is indeed his invention, or more charitably his synthesis.

IMG_2438.JPG

IMG_2439.JPG

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 pm)

A minor point but important nonetheless, my page numbering is from the 1985 three-volume edition of Hilberg, possibly the first edition. The text seems to be identical, especially the claim that the corpses were "pink."

The words "synthesis" or "concoction" are good words to describe what Hilberg did but, another word that fits also is "suppression." Hilberg suppressed parts of his source information that were inconvenient or even contradicted and totally undermined his fictitious "synthesis."

His thesis is based on what is surely a grossly dishonest and unscholarly method. "Cherry-picking" sums it up politely--but most accurate of all is simply "lying." His claim that the corpses were "pink" is contradicted by Mueller. Certainly, on this point Hilberg LIED!

The Perry Broad source would be well worth looking at here. Does Broad speak of pink or blue corpses?

The best I have found so far for Pery Broad is the following link: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/perybroad.html Already in the very first paragraph which looks as if it is supposed to be extracted from Pery Broad's statement we have the following:
One day corpses of Russian prisoners of war were dragged out of a dark cell. As they lay in the yard they looked strangely bloated and had a bluish tinge, though they were relatively fresh. Several older prisoners who had been through World War One remembered seeing corpses like that. Suddenly they understood …. Gas.


Here is another interesting reference lead: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/auschwitzgaschambers.html
Those standing near the shafts died almost instantly, those who shouted, the old, the sick and children also died a quicker death.... In order to ensure that no one remained alive, the gas chamber was not opened until half an hour had elapsed. In periods when the pressure of incoming transports was particularly intense, the gassing time was shortened to ten minutes.


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Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:53 pm)

Shlomo Venezia, Inside the Gas Chambers

Location: krema III
10-12 minutes until total silence, then a check to see if everyone was dead, then doors opened and ventilation turned on simultaneously (as in Hoess), then a 20 minute ventilation period, then sonderkommando enters the chamber. He mentions the noise of the ventilator lasting 20 minutes, but then says (p. 72) that the ventilator continued to clean the air - perhaps it switched to quiet mode? In any case, 20 minutes of ventilation until the room was entered. He specifies that the zyklon was thrown on the floor (p. 65), and even says that he helped lift the lid for the man who threw it in (see the image), but he says nothing about any introduction column or the removal of the zyklon, even though when serving as lid lifter he would have participated in its removal.

v1.jpg


For more information on Venezia:
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ambers.php

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:38 am)

Great thread.

I hope to have more later, but I was looking at Pressac this morning and this caught my eye. Not a "testimony" per se, but certainly an instance of a writer of the "orthodox" (lol) school claiming a ridiculously low figure for gassing time:

A homicidal gassing (using 5 to 7kg of Zyklon-B for 1,000 to 2,000 persons) would last about 20 minutes: 5 minutes for the action of the HCN bringing swift death (the quantity introduced being 40 times the lethal dose) and 15 minutes of ventilation BEFORE BEING ABLE TO OPEN THE GAS TIGHT DOOR. Although a part of the toxic gas had been inhaled by the victims, this was negligible with respect to the quantity remaining, due to the initial overdose.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0016.shtml


Pressac then goes off on an obsessive tangent about how Nyiszli and Hoess were wrong in claiming that the ventilation fans were turned on twenty to thirty minutes after all victims were dead. Why wait an extra twenty minutes? That would be un-Germanlike inefficiency!!!

But why wait 20 to 30 minutes after the complete death of the victims before opening the door? This is waste of time when we consider the rapid throughput rates imposed by the SS, always in a hurry. Hoess and Nyiszli are mistaken as regards the moment at which the ventilation began. It was in fact switched on not more than 10 minutes AFTER the introduction of the gas and it was left running FOR 20 to 30 minutes BEFORE the door was opened.


So, according to Pressac, a gassing in the Leichenkeller of K2 or K3 should have taken no more than five minutes, from introduction of Zyklon-B into the space to the death of the last victim, and certainly would never have required more than ten minutes, since by then the SS would have switched on the ventilation and would be removing residual HCN from the room. And how does Pressac get around the contrary testimony of Nyiszli and Hoess (itself, of course, containing ridiculously short time estimates--just not short enough for him)? Why, of course, he says they couldn't hear when the fans were turned on!

The witnesses state the contrary, and for them it is the truth. The fact is that as long as the gas tight door remained closed, no SOUND could be heard and people could see INTO the gas chamber only through the inspection peephole. The switching on of the ventilation could not be heard because the motor was located in the roof space of the Krematorium and the witnesses were in the basement.


"The fact is that as long as the gas tight door remained closed, no SOUND could be heard . . . " So much for all those stories about hearing the screams of the victims.

And all that from just one page!
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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Hannover » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:46 pm)

I don't mean to distract this thread from the precision of the thread title, but I felt that with all the claims made by the obviously untruthful "eyewitnesses", a little context would be helpful.

I note that Kladderadatsch said of Van Pelt:
So, according to Pressac, a gassing in the Leichenkeller of K2 or K3 should have taken no more than five minutes, from introduction of Zyklon-B into the space to the death of the last victim, and certainly would never have required more than ten minutes, since by then the SS would have switched on the ventilation and would be removing residual HCN from the room. And how does Pressac get around the contrary testimony of Nyiszli and Hoess (itself, of course, containing ridiculously short time estimates--just not short enough for him)? Why, of course, he says they couldn't hear when the fans were turned on!


With all of that and other absurd claims in mind, have a look here (by me, from another thread):

The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.

Everyone will need to get used to it, Revisionists are right and there is more & more of us every day. Just because True Believers want the storyline to be true (which is odd in itself) doesn't change science, logic, and rational thought.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Zulu » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:32 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The Perry Broad source would be well worth looking at here. Does Broad speak of pink or blue corpses?

The best I have found so far for Pery Broad is the following link: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/perybroad.html Already in the very first paragraph which looks as if it is supposed to be extracted from Pery Broad's statement we have the following:
One day corpses of Russian prisoners of war were dragged out of a dark cell. As they lay in the yard they looked strangely bloated and had a bluish tinge, though they were relatively fresh. Several older prisoners who had been through World War One remembered seeing corpses like that. Suddenly they understood …. Gas.


Here is another interesting reference lead: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/auschwitzgaschambers.html
Those standing near the shafts died almost instantly, those who shouted, the old, the sick and children also died a quicker death.... In order to ensure that no one remained alive, the gas chamber was not opened until half an hour had elapsed. In periods when the pressure of incoming transports was particularly intense, the gassing time was shortened to ten minutes.


Here is the appreciation of the Broad's testimony by Jean-Claude Pressac
II/ Testimony of the SS man Pery BROAD

I cite only for memory the “declaration by Pery Broad”, published by the PMO in “Auschwitz seen by the SS” Historically, this account is not exploitable in its present version despite its “true” and all too “striking”, atmosphere, since it has been rewritten by and for the Poles and diffused exclusively by them. Document NI 11397 of 14/12/45 gives only a fleeting impression of the exact tone that this “declaration” must have had. As for his famous account of 13/6/45 given to the British Intelligence Service and which really served as a basis for the Polish “declaration”, the chief archivist assured me that the PMO did not possess the original, which was thought to be in England. Having never seen even a photocopy of the initial account of 13/6/45, I wonder what German “original”, was used by the translator Helena Dziedzinska, as the Museum has not kept it. Furthermore, I fear that Pery Broad. even in his original account, was but a poor observer of the extermination installations. He describes Bunkers 1 and 2 thus:

"Not far from Birkenau, which was rapidly expanding, there were was two neat and pretty peasant cottages built on a pleasant site. Separated by a copse, they were whitewashed and covered with nice thatched roofs . All around there were fruit trees. ”

There is an error in this text: the copse is a veritable forest, 800 meters across. Broad's testimony is above all a chronical of a few striking events at the camp, incapable of providing precise details about the Bunkers and Krematorien. After assessing its reliability, no consciencious historian will be able to use it unless and until the "declaration" has been stripped of the Polish influence, or in other words until the original is published.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0162.shtml

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Zulu » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:35 pm)

Eliminated because of dubbled sending

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Horhug » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:44 pm)

Dr. Jan Sehn, Oboz Koncentracyjny Oswiecim-Brzezinka, p. 137, Glowna Komisja Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce, Wydawnictwo Prawnicze, Warszawa, 1961.

Jednakze SS mani z obslugi krematoriow oswiecimskich nie zadawali sobie trudu przeprowadzenia obliczen w celu ustalenia dla kazdej komory gazowej odpowiedniej dawki cyklonu ktora powodujac szybka smiere, oszczedzilaby ofiarom meki straszliwego konania. Po prostu wsypywano do komor zawartosc puszki z cyklonem i dla pewnosci trzymano ofiary w gazie okolo 25 minut. W czasie najwiekszego nasilenia gazownia w lecie 1944 r. skrocon ten okres do 10 minut a jednoczesnie zmniejszono ze wzgledow oszczednosciowych ilosc cyklonu z 12 do 6 puszek.



Google translation:

Dr. Jan Sehn, Concentration Camp Auschwitz-Birkenau, p, 137, Main Commission for the Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland, Legal Publishing, Warsaw, 1961.

However, the SS men from Auschwitz crematoria Service had not bothered to perform calculations to determine for each gas chamber cyclone which right dose causing rapid death, would spare the victims of the terrible agony Passion. I just poured the contents of the cans chamber and cyclone victims held for certainty in the gas about 25 minutes. During the height of the gasworks in the summer of 1944, the period shortened to 10 minutes and at the same time reduced the number of economical reasons cyclone from 12 to 6 cans.

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Horhug » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:58 pm)

The Black Book, p. 395, The Jewish Black Book Committee, Duell, Sloan and Pearce, New York, 1946.

"SS men with gas masks climbed onto the roof, opened the traps, spreading a powder out of tin cans labeled "Cyklon - for use against vermin", which was manufactured by a Hamburg concern. It is presumed that this is a cyanide mixture of some sort which at certain temperatures turns into gas. After three minutes everyone in the chamber was dead."


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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Horhug » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:27 pm)

Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, The Blue Series, Vol. 2.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... f#page=112

Case 6: U.S. v. Carl Krauch et al. ("I.G. Farben Case"), 1947-48

Indictments, Count 3 - Slavery and Mass Murder.

C. Farben at Auschwitz.

p. 48.

"Steps were taken to conceal from the victims the fact that they were to be exterminated and it was represented to them that by going through the gas chambers they were only going through a bathing and delousing process. It took from three to fifteen minutes to kill the people in the death chamber, and when their screaming had stopped it was assumed they were dead."




Nuremberg Blue Series, Vol. 1, p. 252.

He [Hoess] described the actual killing by stating: "It took from three to fifteen minutes to kill the people in the death chamber, depending upon climatic conditions."


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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 pm)

To whoever posted that link to the pdf of Nyiszli, many thanks. I have been unable to find my own worn copy of that classic--but now I have it.

On page 85, Nyiszli wrote:

Blood oozed from their noses and mouths; their faces bloated and b-l-u-e, were so deformed as to be unrecognizable.


There is no mention anywhere in this source either of the corpses appearing "pink" as Hilberg claimed, supposedly on the basis of this source as well as the three other sources he referred to in his footnote 93 discussed above. So where did Hilberg get his "pink" claim. Did he make it up? Did he discover somehow that cyanide does NOT turn corpses "blue" at all but bright cherry RED or pink instead? Did someone at Columbia University tap him on the shoulder and tell him that the blue story was not going to fly forever? Who really knows why Hilberg lied the way he did--but that is what he certainly did to help make the hoax, particularly his version of it, work.

The color issue may not seem that important at first glance just as a fingerprint may not seem important--but people are acquitted and/or condemned of terrible crimes on the basis of little more than such "minor" things. Here we are, I suggest, looking at the fingerprints of the most horrible hoaxers in history. The color issue is decisive. Hilberg himself at some point realized that the color issue was so important that he even lied about his "evidence" to make it appear consistent with reality. It also exposes Hilberg as a scurrilous quack. He deliberately lied about the "evidence" just as he had lied about the size of Gerstein's diesel gas chambers as well.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: wanted: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassing

Postby friedrichjansson » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:41 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:where did Hilberg get his "pink" claim. Did he make it up? [...]
Hilberg himself at some point realized that the color issue was so important that he even lied about his "evidence" to make it appear consistent with reality. It also exposes Hilberg as a scurrilous quack. He deliberately lied about the "evidence" just as he had lied about the size of Gerstein's diesel gas chambers as well.


The description "pink with green spots" comes from Henryk Tauber.

I do not think Hilberg lied about Gerstein's statements on the size of the Belzec gas chambers. Martin Gilbert and Leon Poliakov lied about that. Hilberg just used Gerstein selectively. You might justly say that he lied by omission, but no more than that.

In any event, please keep to the topic: testimonies on the duration of Auschwitz gassings, not corpse color.


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