Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 6 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:22 pm)

I don't want to go off-topic into Armenian genocide. But I find the parallels interesting. If anyone cares to add or comment.

1) Armenian genocide made known in USA primarily by Henry Morgenthau Sr. Ambassador to Ottoman Empire. His son contributed on a high level to the holocaust myth.

2) Morgenthau Sr. worked with Adolf Ochs, Jewish owner of the New York Times. A huge amount of money raised and Jewish PR campaign that looks like it had a hidden agenda:
As the massacres continued unabated, Morgenthau and several other Americans decided to form a public fund raising committee that would assist the Armenians, the Committee on Armenian Atrocities (later renamed the Near East Relief), raising over $100 million in aid, the equivalent of $1 billion today. Through his friendship with Adolph Ochs, publisher of the New York Times he also ensured that the massacres continued to receive prominent coverage, with 145 articles in 1915 alone.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau,_Sr.


3) Key point: Palestine was in the Ottoman Empire. Armenian genocide could have been parlayed into the US or British taking Palestine as a way to protect the Jewish people. Indeed Morgenthau Sr. went that direction.
In 1918, Ambassador Morgenthau gave public speeches in the United States warning that the Greeks and Assyrians were being subjected to the "same methods" of deportation and "wholesale massacre" as the Armenians, and that two million Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians had already perished.[13] In June 1917, Felix Frankfurter accompanied him, as a representative of the War Department, on a secret mission to persuade Turkey to abandon the Central Powers in the war effort, the stated purpose for the mission was to "ameliorate the condition of the Jewish communities in Palestine."[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau,_Sr.


Morgenthau Sr. then went on a mission to Poland to investigate the mistreatment of Jews there.

4) Over-representation of Jewish American ambassadors to the Ottoman Empire
• Oscar S. Straus (JEWISH) (1898–1899)
• John G. A. Leishman (NOT JEWISH (1899–1909)
• Oscar S. Straus (JEWISH) (1909–1910)
• William Woodville Rockhill (NOT JEWISH) (1909–1913)
• Henry Morgenthau, Sr. (JEWISH) (1913–1916)
• Abram I. Elkus (JEWISH) (1916–1917)

5) Morgenthau Sr. advocated force along with his alarm of the Armenian genocide. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ambas ... legram.jpg

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby scythian » 6 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:09 pm)

There are many parallels. What's also interesting as that politically they both involve Palestine to some degree.

Remember, there are two sides to every story. The "winning" side is the one who writes history, but there is no clear winner here. Both Armenia and Turkey lost a lot of territory and the latter was no longer a monarchy.

Here is an excellent resource on the Turkish perspective:

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/

There is a bit on there about Hitler's false "who remembers the Armenians?" there too:

http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/hitler-quote.htm

This quote is still tossed around by exterminationists even though it is a complete fabrication from Louis P. Lochner's book "What about Germany?" published in 1942 along with a 1945 Times of London article written by an anonymous journalist who attributed it to a 1939 speech whose transcript was used during the Nuremberg Trials. There was no such transcript nor was there any such speech. You guys probably already know about this though, so back to the Armenian genocide

A lot of Armenians were killed and so were a lot of Turks. Were they really systematically killing them? For political reasons it does appear that some entity (probably a shadowy third party) wanted to ethnically cleanse as many ethnic minority groups as they could from (soon to be) Turkey's borders. Imperialist partitioning tactic used in the middle east, India, and even in Europe. Kurds got 4-way screwed because of imperialist partitioning.

From my research, this partially had to do with the "crime of genocide" being proposed to the UN by a Polish Jew named Raphael Lemkin. Lemkin coined the term specifically based on the Armenian situation. IIRC, the same guy proposed the crime of barbarism to the earlier League of Nations which was genocide in early form. This time around, Lemkin could use the "holocaust" as "another" example in order to sell it into the form of a law. Even still, (since I'm going off of memory) UN genocide laws were not used until the mid 90s.

The problem with accusing somebody of genocide is it is selectively enforced. Many "genocides" by definition have gone on in the world since and most have slipped on by. By definition what Israel has done to the Palestinians can be considered genocide. It isn't used with moral equivalency in mind, it's only used when politically convenient. Like, for example, in a civil war (like Syria for example) the side that isn't supported by the West will be "forced" to lose (the support and arming of opposition by the US to ensure this) and could be convicted of genocide completely for political reasons and not because an actual genocide occurred. This is why genocide laws are deceptive.

The Ottoman Sultan allowed Zionists to buy land in Palestine. Due to various complaints, they could not just buy land anywhere they wanted, but they were allowed to buy land and live in Palestine. The Sultan refused to meet with Theodor Herzl because he refused to give the land away to Jews since too much of their own blood had been spilled to acquire it and it was sacred to them too. There might have been a "Zionist" fifth column among the Ottomans called Donmeh who were Jewish by ancestry even though religious Jews did not recognize them as Jews. There is strong evidence that many of the Young Turk revolutionaries and leaders were Donmeh. The Young Turks are the ones implicated in the genocide. They are also responsible for the anti-Islamificaiton and secularization of Turkey.

Turkey would later go on to have good relations with Israel. They're rocky now obviously, but for example Israel has never recognized the Armenian genocide. They threatened to after the flotilla thing made relations sour. The US congress, on the other hand, has made multiple attempts for whatever the reason to get it recognized. They also criticize Turkey despite Turkey being an ally of the US (who have stationed nukes there before) and a member of NATO.

Lot of politics involved, especially behind the scenes. Lot of it sounds eerily similar to the holohoax. This was right after 6 million Jews were being holocausted in Eastern Europe by Russians remember.

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby Hannover » 6 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:16 pm)

The bogus 'Hitler Armenian quote' is demolished here:

'the 'Who today remembers the Armenians?' canard'
viewtopic.php?t=624
and here:
'News! The 'Who Remembers Armenians' Lie Debunked / forgery'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=943&p=5631

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby Hektor » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:37 pm)

scythian wrote:...
From my research, this partially had to do with the "crime of genocide" being proposed to the UN by a Polish Jew named Raphael Lemkin. Lemkin coined the term specifically based on the Armenian situation. IIRC, the same guy proposed the crime of barbarism to the earlier League of Nations which was genocide in early form. This time around, Lemkin could use the "holocaust" as "another" example in order to sell it into the form of a law. Even still, (since I'm going off of memory) UN genocide laws were not used until the mid 90s.

The problem with accusing somebody of genocide is it is selectively enforced. Many "genocides" by definition have gone on in the world since and most have slipped on by. By definition what Israel has done to the Palestinians can be considered genocide. It isn't used with moral equivalency in mind, it's only used when politically convenient. Like, for example, in a civil war (like Syria for example) the side that isn't supported by the West will be "forced" to lose (the support and arming of opposition by the US to ensure this) and could be convicted of genocide completely for political reasons and not because an actual genocide occurred. This is why genocide laws are deceptive.
....

I think it is worthwhile to investigate this Raphael Lemkin character and his writings on genocide a bit. Also the present definitions being used.
I.e. as source:
http://www.preventgenocide.org/lemkin/A ... 1944-1.htm

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:11 pm)

Another parallel: There was/is an influent Armenian community in the United States of America (no need to say that was similar to the situation of jewry in America), the biggest propaganda machine on earth. Having an influent position in America enables anyone to create any myth and propagandize it so much it quickly becomes "fact". On the other hand there was no influent Turkish community in America. The German community was not influent in America either (numerous, but not influent and certainly not as influent as the jewish community).

Other parallel: Armenians are cousins (nearly race brothers) of Khazars and so they are related to the most powerful community of this planet. That probably helps if you want to create a fake genocide...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby AD25 » 5 months 1 week ago (Fri May 31, 2019 8:39 am)

"Other parallel: Armenians are cousins (nearly race brothers) of Khazars and so they are related to the most powerful community of this planet. That probably helps if you want to create a fake genocide..."
Armenian are Indo-European people. Khazars were Turkic people.

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby AD25 » 5 months 1 week ago (Fri May 31, 2019 8:43 am)

And Jews are still mostly Semitic people.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european ... oups.shtml

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby borjastick » 5 months 1 week ago (Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 pm)

AD25 wrote:And Jews are still mostly Semitic people.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european ... oups.shtml


Surely most jews on the planet are of Khazar extraction and thus according to The Thirteenth Tribe theory they are anything but semitic or even jewish.
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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 1 week ago (Fri May 31, 2019 6:02 pm)

:roll: Khazar theory is bogus.

Kevin Macdonald - Refuting the Khazar Theory & Occidental Observations
https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/refutin ... servations

I went a little bit in detail about the genetics here, lower in the thread

"Master Race" / Herrenrasse / Herrenvolk - a deliberate mistranslation
viewtopic.php?t=12400

As for Armenians, I think they are an admixed population of linguistically Indo-European speaking, but genetically neolithic farmer (Sardinian-like) people who arrived in Asia Minor from the Balkans at the end of the Bronze Age, and mixed with the local population.

I think Jews are not European but have admixture, and the European groups they are closest to are first: other European Jews, and second: European groups they acquired admixture from.

To be fair, it doesn't really matter to ethnocentric Jews. We are all "gentiles" to them, no matter what our genetic distance is. Certainly they feel no kinship to the Armenians, or any other gentile group.
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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby borjastick » 5 months 1 week ago (Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:39 am)

Lamprecht wrote::roll: Khazar theory is bogus.

Kevin Macdonald - Refuting the Khazar Theory & Occidental Observations
https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/refutin ... servations

I went a little bit in detail about the genetics here, lower in the thread

"Master Race" / Herrenrasse / Herrenvolk - a deliberate mistranslation
viewtopic.php?t=12400

As for Armenians, I think they are an admixed population of linguistically Indo-European speaking, but genetically neolithic farmer (Sardinian-like) people who arrived in Asia Minor from the Balkans at the end of the Bronze Age, and mixed with the local population.

I think Jews are not European but have admixture, and the European groups they are closest to are first: other European Jews, and second: European groups they acquired admixture from.

To be fair, it doesn't really matter to ethnocentric Jews. We are all "gentiles" to them, no matter what our genetic distance is. Certainly they feel no kinship to the Armenians, or any other gentile group.


That's your opinion and not one which I share. I have read quite a bit on the matter and I think the Khazar theory is pretty solid. I once read an argument against the Khazar theory which was based on the writers idea that it cannot be true because all jews look alike and thus they are the same if they came from old Palestine stock or from eastern european stock. Clearly he hadn't looked carefully enough at old jews from pre war Palestine who look significantly different to current yids from eastern europe.

Apart from that it is a sure fire way to really wind them zionist robbers up by claiming they aren't really jews. It brings hours of mirth every time...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Holocaust myth parallels with Armenian genocide

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 1 week ago (Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:59 am)

I think the only thing we can rely on here is the genetics. There are countless studies on the Ashkenazi genome, possibly they are the most studied population in the world.

As for the "you're not really jews" claim, they are an admixed population

- "our best estimate is to assign ~81% of Ashkenazi [maternal] lineages to a European source, ~8% to the Near East and ~1% further to the east in Asia, with ~10% remaining ambiguous" - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
- 2 Khazar bones had Y-DNA extracted and it was found to be "Aryan" R1a - https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ar_Burials
- R1a is over half of many Eastern Euro groups, but only 13% of Ashkenazi - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
- The R1a clade found in Jews is R1a-M582, which is found in significant frequency in Near Eastern regions Iranian Kerman, Iranian Azeri, the Kurds from Cilician Anatolia and Kazakhstan, and among Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews. - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3928
- There's also the Cohen Modal Haplotype. Why would the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Kohanim have such similar Y-DNA haplogroup frequencies? It's passed on paternally - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

I think the Khazar theory is latched on to for political reasons. The DNA evidence doesn't seem to fit it at all, and that's what I depend on here here.

It's also irrelevant as we know Ashkenazi do have Euro admixture. Their theft of Palestine wouldn't be any different than if the Gypsies were given a huge chunk of India after WWII full of Indians living there for generations, simply because Nazis put them in camps.



Also, it seems Ashkenazi are not even genetically all that close to Armenians. From: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/08/fa ... h-and.html

Image

Iraqi Jews are closest to Armenians, genetically, of the Jewish groups tested, but they are closer to non-Ashkenazi Jews than they are to Armenians
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
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