first post here
I have come from the D Icke forum which has a forum dedicated to poitical manipultion on which are several
but this one is most recently addressed http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175373
someone called boots thinks he has provided enought evidence to debunk leuchter and rudolf (probably using nizkor as a source but maybe not)
see initial submission : http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1061404220&postcount=4512
First off Leuchter is a liar. He does get one thing correct, as does Rudolf, which is that there were both Gas chamber's and Delousing Chamber's.
This is not disputed by so called 'revisionist'.
1. Fred, tells everyone that he is an engineer and a scientist, he is neither. He is a lair.
This is a verbatim quote from the cross-examination of Fred Leuchter, "revisionist scholar", "engineer and scientist"
Q: Now, Mr. Leuchter, Mr. Christie, when he was reviewing your qualifications, said that, if my note is correct, you graduated from university in a field that entitles you to function as an engineer and you responded in the affirmative to that question?
A: Yes. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree.
Q: You graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree?
A: You mean what year?
Q: What year?
Q: 1964. And that's the only University degree you have?
A: That's correct.
Q: You don't have a Bachelor of Science degree?
Q: You don't have a Master of Science degree; you don't have a Ph.D in science?
Q: You don't have a degree in engineering?
A: That's correct.
Q: Do you belong to any suprevising disciplinary professional body?
A: I don't understand the question, counsellor.
Q: Well, do you belong to a governing body of engineers?
A: I -- governing body? I do not understand. Are you saying do I belong to any scientific societies?
Q: No, is there any body of engineers that supervises you and disciplines you in your engineering function?
<end quote from trial>
What a penis
At trail Fred said this.
Leuchter continues to make an idiot of himself, proving he knows nothing about Zyklon-B, HCN, the concentrations and the exposure times involved in delousing. In short, he knows nothing.
The following proves that Leuchter's analysis of the cyanide residues in the remains of the Auschwitz gas chambers is meaningless, as it was based on comparing those residues to the ones in the (intact) delousing chambers.
[Quoted verbatim from Leuchter's cross-examination by Pearson, in the Zündel trial, pages 9247-9250].
Q. So, on page seventeen when it says that rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams grams per cubic metre, we're talking about a concentration in excess of 833 parts per million?
A. Most likely. I haven't read this thing again and I'm nor sure whether or not we're talking about the full weight or simply the gas.
Q. Well sir, would you agree with me that Degesh, the people who manufactured the product, say that rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams per cubic metre and that's equivalent to three times the amount that is fatal for a human. Would you agree? We're talking about around nine-hundred parts per million. And three hundred---
A. Again, over what period of time, counsellor?
Q. Well, they are talking about a time of exposure that varies greatly from 2 to 72 hours. If you read what they've written, they say "various types of pests react differently to hydrocyanic acid. Rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams per cubic metre," and then they say "Larger Bacon Beetles require twenty times as much. Times of exposure also vary greatly," so I suggest that they're talking about to kill beetles.
A. This may well be. I've never killed beetles. I, you know, I don't know. I haven't made computations for killing beetles.
Q. Well sir, I know you haven't but you've come here and you've told the jury some conclusions.
A. That's correct.
Q. and I want to ask you about your answer to me. I said it takes a higher concentration of hydrogen cyanide to exterminate insects than it does to kill human beings. You said no. We go to the Degesh manual and it says that it requires twenty times as much to kill beetles as to kill rats and it takes three times as much to kill rats than it does to kill humans.
A. Maybe it depends upon the insects. Most of the work that I've been looking at, they've been killing lice and ticks. And their recommendation for general fumigation purposes is three thousand parts per million.
Q. What is twenty times 833 parts per million?
A. What is twenty times 833 parts per million?
Q. 16,600. So what Degesh are saying, the people who make the product, is that if you want to kill beetles, you should have a concentration of -- of what sir?
A. 16,600, apparently.
Q. Right. and it takes three hundred parts per million to kill a human being in a matter of minutes?
A. Or more
Q. In a matter of minutes.
A. Twenty minutes, fifteen minutes, yes.
Q. Right. And here they are talking about a time of exposure from 2 to 72 hours, right?
<end quote from trial>
Fred just demolished his own 'research' by stating he knows that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal chambers for it take small amounts to kill Human's, however it takes large amounts to kill lice. Fred has stated in his 'research' that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal gas chamber, therefore there couldn't have been mass killing, the guy's and idiot and I'm afraid to say those that take his 'research as fact are idiots too.
At the court case when he was a key witness for Neo Nazi Zundel, he again proved he was full of shit.
Read here. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...s-witness.html
Here is Fred telling more porky pies, this ones a beauty
In testimony at the Zeundel trial in Canada, Leuchter presents himself as a businessman, doing business as an expert in his field. Here he is being questioned by his attorney, Douglas Christie:
Q: And what is your relationship with the operation of those facilities [i.e. gas chambers] in those two States [California and North Carolina]?
A: We consulted with both States, California primarily on a heart monitoring system to replace the older type mechanical diagraph stethoscope that's presently in use. We will be shipping to them shortly and installing a new heart monitor for both chairs in their gas chamber.
Q: You are consulted by the State, I understand?
A: Yes, Juan Vasquez.
Q: I see. And in North Carolina?
A: North Carolina. My discussions and work was with one Nathan Reise, and he had some work done by their maintenance personnel on their gas chamber two years ago, and they had a problem with the gasket on a door leaking. At which point, we discussed it with him and recommended remedial procedures to change the gas chamber.
Q: And he consults you in regard to those matters?
A: He does.
So, here we've seen Leuchter making certain claims about two prisons. Yet when a netter contacted these prisons, and asked them about Leuchter's claims, he was told:
"I can inform you, however, that San Quentin has not contracted with Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. for the installation of a heart monitoring system or for any other work." Signed: DANIEL B. Vasquez, Warden
"I discussed your request with Mr. Nathan A. RICE, Former Warden, and he stated that he vaguely recalled a telephone conversation between him and a gentleman professing to be an expert on execution chambers. Mr. Rice further state that the gentleman called him for the purpose of selling a lethal injection machine...
"Also, our records do not support that Mr. Leuchter performed either consulting or any service...I can attest that the planning and work was performed by the Department of Correction Engineering Section and our institution maintenance department." Signed: Gary T. Dixon, Warden NC
In short, Fred Leuchter is a liar, and seems to have purjured himself in the Canadian court. As you can see, it pays to check sources when it comes to this "expert" in gas chambers!
A UseNet Response from Dr. Danny Keren
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1993 15:56:58 GMT
This stuff has been posted here months ago, and refuted. There is a long file which addresses it more carefuly, but here are some major points:
1) Leuchter, who claims to be an "engineer", was exposed as a liar and a fraud. His only education consists of a BA in history, 1964. He admits to have no formal training in toxicology, biology, chemistry etc.
2) During his testimony at the Zundle trial in Canada, Leuchter not only lied about his professional past, he also ridiculed himself by proving not to have even a vague idea of what he is talking about. For instance, one of the claims Holocaust deniers make again and again is that there are less traces of cyanide compounds in the remains of the gas chambers in Auschwitz than in the "delousing chambers" in which clothes were deloused (using the same gas, hydrogen cyanide). As anyone with some training in toxicology knows, it takes a much higher concentration of the gas to kill lice, bugs etc than to kill humans and other warm blooded creatures (the concentration has to be up to 16,000 Parts Per Million; humans die when exposed to 300 PPM). Furthermore, to kill lice etc an exposure time of many hours is needed, while people die in minutes (like in the execution gas chambers in the US, which use exactly the same gas). Hence, it is obvious that there would be more cyanide traces in the delousing rooms.
When this fact was pointed out to Leuchter during his cross-examination by Mr. Pearson, he made the following pathetic reply:
"I've never killed beetles. I, you know, I don't know. I haven't made computations for killing beetles" [verbatim quote from the trial's transcript].
Furthermore, he claims that it would be dangerous to house the furnaces for cremating the victims in the same building in which the gas chambers were located, because the "gas might explode". Of course, he didn't even bother to check before exposing himself as a complete ignorant; the gas explodes at a minimal concentration of 56,000 PPM - about 200 times more than the lethal concentration (check, for instance, "The Merck Index" or any other text on flammability and toxicity).
Even more amazing is to read what he answered with regard to the current situation of the gas chambers in Auschwitz (demolished by the fleeing SS in an attempt to hide criminal traces):
Q. Crematoria III has been demolished.
A. Um, there are still parts of Crematoruim III there, but for the most part, the roof of the alleged gas chamber has crumbled and is all lying in bits and pieces in the basement of what would have been the alleged gas chamber.
Q. So, it's no longer subterranean?
A. That's correct. There's a hole in the ground.
Q. With respect to the gas chambers at Crematorium IV and V, those are totally demolished.
A. With the exception of the foundation, yes.
Q. So, all that was there for you to examine was the foundation of the building. Is that right?
A. That is correct.
Even more incredible is to see what Leuchter writes in his report:
"Evidence as to Krema function is non-existent since Krema's I oven has been completely rebuilt, Kremas II and III are partially destroyed with components missing, and Kremas IV and V are gone".
"Are gone"! Yet, he can still conjecture about how they functioned before being destroyed...
The whole "report" is more or less the same - rubbish disguised as "scientific research", written by an un-educated fool which doesn't even bother to check the facts before writing his nonsense.
so there it is
anyone from codoh care to take this guy to task ? I hope so or else point me in the right direction
especially the emphasis on needing more zyklon b to kill lice/vermin than humans thus explaining why there was so little zb in the crema.
if you can help it would be a relief