'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hannover » 6 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:53 pm)

We've it heard it repeatedly, 'He confessed, therefore he is guilty'.

In fact, there were thousands of 'confessions' to witchcraft, sorcery, black magic, and sex with the devil. There are thousands of claimed 'eyewitnesses' to the same.

Those invalid claims are repeated ad nauseum in regards to the 'holocaust' storyline. 'The Germans confessed, how can anyone challenge such facts?'

The claims of the validity of 'confessions' are particularly problematic for many reasons as will be discussed below, however:

- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since they were not accompanied by scientific, physical forensic evidence presented in courts of law.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since there are no human remains as alleged that can be shown.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since the claims made of the alleged principal murder weapon (gas chambers') have been proven to be impossible as alleged in the 'holocaust' storyline.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since torture was used against he German 'confessors'


Take those four points and read on for yet another article on 'confessions', the critical factors and questions that must be asked in assessing the validity of claimed confessions.

- Hannover

excerpt:
Witchcraft confessions should raise various questions for us. What is the status of any confession? What makes a confession believable? Why are confessions thought to be better than other forms of evidence? Whose interests are served by privileging confessions? How do interrogation techniques such as threats, physical or psychological stress, torture, pre-written confessions, isolation, or leading questions taint a confession? As the BBC article indicates such techniques are not relegated to the past. Witchcraft confessions—the procedures that produced them, the courts that accepted and acted on them, the public that believed them, the authorities that endorsed them—should prompt us to think about the social, political, and judicial work any confession is doing.


full text from :http://dhayton.haverford.edu/2013/01/07/what-can-witchcraft-confessions-teach-us/
A recent article at the BBC asks, “Why do Innocent People Confess?” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572
For historians of witchcraft this article—the basic question, the reason prosecutors prefer confessions, and the reasons innocent people confess—will look remarkably familiar. Every time I teach my course on witchcraft students ask why anybody would confess to witchcraft. Motivated by a belief that witches never existed and witchcraft is impossible, they want to know two things: Why did innocent women and men confess to bewitching, harming, and sometimes killing other people? And why did anybody believe those confessions? The BBC article focuses on the first set of questions.

According to the BBC, Japan’s criminal conviction rate is over 99%, based largely on confessions. Those accused of committing crimes are interrogated in small, isolated rooms open only to the interrogators and the suspect. Suspects are questions night and day for hours on end. They are offered prewritten confessions to sign. They know that prosecutors are typically more lenient on those who confess. And really, all the Japanese want is “to find out the truth—exactly what happened through confession” and remain confident that “most of the confessions are truthful and they play an important part in convicting criminals.” The article suggests some psychological and cultural reasons Japanese suspects are eager to confess crimes they didn’t commit—shame being an important one.

Early modern prosecutors could hardly have said it better. They too, just wanted to learn the truth and to help convict criminals, especially witches. Innumerable manuals guide judges, inquisitors, justices of the peace, and other investigators in their search for witches. Probably the most famous is Heinrich Kramer and Johannes Sprenger’s Malleus Maleficarum, which includes a long discussion of how a suspected witch is to be interrogated and why.

Crimes of Witchcraft presented something of a challenge. Rarely were there any witnesses to the actual crime. Consequently, confession was thought to be an important tool in prosecuting suspects. Confession could be extracted through various forms of interrogation. According to certain law, confessions obtained under torture—no doubt a subjective term—had to be repeated voluntarily—again, no doubt a subjective term. The Trial of Tempel Anneke records a fascinating and haunting case that occurred in 1663 in Brunswick, Germany.

In early seventeenth-century England Richard Bernard published his A guide to grand-jury men, which guided investigators in their efforts to ascertain the truth—exactly what happened. He discusses various forms of confession, from implicit confession, the testimony of other confessed witches, to voluntary confession:

By the Witches owne confessions of giving their soules to the divell, and of the spirits which they have, and how they came by them. If any thinke that it is almost impossible to make Witches confesse thus much, they are deceived; for I find by Histories exceeding many to have confessed, and in our owne Relations of arraigned and condemned Witches, wherein I finde how a Witch hath confessed the fact, to the afflicted, being brought unto him, and charged with bewitching him: as Alizon Device did to John Law. So to the afflicted friends, as did Mother Samuel to M. Throgmorton. Some to Justices, when they were examined, as did the Lancashire and Rutland Witches. Some to the Judges so freely, as made the Judges and the Justices to admire thereat, as they did at Lancaster. Some in terrour of consciences, truely apprehending the fearefulnesse of their league made, as did on Magdalena a French Gentlewoman, seduced by Lewis Gaufredy, who also himselfe at length made a large confession before his death.
We see therefore, that Witches may be brought to confesse their Witchcraft. And thus much for the sound evidenes, more then presumptions, upon which they may bee found guilty, and iustly be condemned, and put to death

Bernard then details the many ways witches can be examined. His advice was condensed and repackaged for a more popular audience in the middle of the century in the pamphlet The Lawes against Witches and Coniuration. Here Bernard’s sometimes cautious guidelines were presented more forcefully.
Image
The Lawes against Witches and Coniuration—a witchcraft pamphlet printed in 1645.


When Bernard described implicit confessions, he recognized that they were problematic:

An implicit confession, when any come & accuse them, for vexing them, hurting them, or their cattell; they shall hereupon say, “You should have let me alone the:” as Anne Baker a Witch, said unto one Miles: or, “I have not hurt you yet,” ass Mother Samuel said to the Lady Cromwell, when she caused her hair to be burnt: or to say to one, “I will promise you that I will doe you no hurt,” upon this or that condition, as other have said. These kind of speeches are in manner of confession of their power of hurting, and yet but presumption; because such speeches have beene, and are used upon diverse occasions, by others which are no Witches

Two decades later, the pamphlet quoted Bernard but truncated his text after declaring “These and the like speeches are in manner of a confession of their power of hurting.” Similarly, The Lawes against Witches and Coniuration reduced Bernard’s reflections on confession to a set of operational guidelines, presented as an ordered list for demonstrating that somebody is a witch.

As if to demonstrate the utility of this list, the publisher appended to the pamphlet “The Confession of Mother Lakeland of Ipswich, who was arraigned and condemned for a Witch, and suffered death by burning, at Ipswich in Suffolk, on Tuesday the 9. of September, 1645.” Apparently Mother Lakeland confessed “The Devil came to her first between sleeping and waking, and spake to her in a hollow voyce, that if she would serve him she should want for nothing. After often sollicitation she consented to him.” The devil gave her “three Impes, two little Dogs and a Mole (as she confessed).” She bewitched her husband and tormented him, “(as she confessed) whereby he lay in great misery for a time, and at last dyed.” She confessed to sending her imps, her dogs, and her mole out to torment and harm others. While no witnesses could provide testimony to her crimes, her confession was enough to condemn her to be burnt. Two decades later, in Brunswick, Tempel Anneke confessed to fornicating with the devil and binding herself to him, but only in a granary.

Witchcraft confessions should raise various questions for us. What is the status of any confession? What makes a confession believable? Why are confessions thought to be better than other forms of evidence? Whose interests are served by privileging confessions? How do interrogation techniques such as threats, physical or psychological stress, torture, pre-written confessions, isolation, or leading questions taint a confession? As the BBC article indicates such techniques are not relegated to the past. Witchcraft confessions—the procedures that produced them, the courts that accepted and acted on them, the public that believed them, the authorities that endorsed them—should prompt us to think about the social, political, and judicial work any confession is doing.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby hermod » 6 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:21 pm)



The Vera Institute of Justice's Neil A. Weiner Research Department Speaker Series presents Saul Kassin, Distinguished Professor of Psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Professor Kassin's research focuses on the remarkable phenomenon of false confessions in criminal investigations—which are far more common than one might expect.

*****************

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572 (Japan crime: Why do innocent people confess?)

*****************





Why would four innocent men confess to a brutal crime they didn't commit?

In "The Confessions," FRONTLINE producer Ofra Bikel investigates the conviction of four Navy sailors for the rape and murder of a Norfolk, Va., woman in 1997.

In interviews with the sailors, Bikel learns of some of the high-pressure police interrogation techniques -- including the threat of the death penalty, sleep deprivation, and intimidation -- that led each of the "Norfolk Four" to confess, despite a lack of evidence linking them to the crime.

Watch the full program here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions

***************************************

Beria, chief of the Soviet security and secret police apparatus (NKVD) during World War II, boasted he could get anyone [under investigation] to confess they were linked to the king or queen of England.

http://books.google.be/books?id=vumgEWt ... nd&f=false
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hannover » 6 years 2 months ago (Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:18 pm)

This has a direct tie-in to this thread:

Unsubstantiated 'eyewitness testimonies' = truth?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3315
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hektor » 6 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:02 am)

Actually a lot of the socalled confessions aren't that either. Rarely anyone "confessed" to pouring the Zyklon B into the gas chamber. They usually allege to have witnessed others doing that.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hannover » 5 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:44 pm)

It's interesting when you compare the Nuremberg Show Trials, where the mythological 'gas chambers' were said to be fact in what was called 'judicial notice', which rendered the absurd 'gas chambers' essentially unchallengeable.
Note:
The only study of a claimed 'holocaust' mass murder weapon at Nuremberg was presented by the Soviets and this was of 'steam chambers'. IOW Jews were laughably said to have been steamed to death. No scientific forensic evidence for 'gas chambers' was ever presented.

Knowing that the corrupt Nuremberg court had taken 'judicial notice' of the unproven 'gas chambers', the Germans had little recourse but to attempt to explain away the false charges made against them. Openly challenging the court risked execution much like those accused of witchcraft.
Hundreds of people were arrested for witchcraft in the summer of 1692, and an overwhelming majority of them admitted to the charge. This was primarily due to the fact that those who denied being witches were executed.
http://www.historypressblog.net/2012/10/03/five-surprising-facts-about-salem-witchcraft/

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who debunk it are arrested and persecuted. That is why Jewish supremacists demand that there be no legitimate, open debate.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby borjastick » 5 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:45 pm)

The only study of a claimed 'holocaust' mass murder weapon at Nuremberg was presented by the Soviets and this was of 'steam chambers'. IOW Jews were laughably said to have been steamed to death.


Hannover can you post the details of the said steam murder equipment please? I would like to see what exactly they said was used and what technical supporting evidence they showed for it.

As a sidebar it is interesting how the Jews will always expect more of others than they are prepared to give of themselves,especially when it comes to holocaust claims and protection of the sacred truth they hold so dear. A contemporary situation to illustrate the slippery nature of them is how Israel has signed up to the desire to establish a two state solution to the troublesome issue of Palestine yet only this week they tried to offload that commitment by saying that Palestine shouldn't get this or that if they continue to pursue international recognition.

My point is that you simply cannot trust them, believe what they say or turn your back on them. As my grand dad used to say about untrustworthy bods 'always count your fingers after shaking hands with that man'.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

User avatar
Landulf
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:55 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Landulf » 5 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:53 pm)

Well said, Hannover.... And the fact that there are laws in the country in question of thought crimes is the biggest evidence of the hoax. Or else they summoned all revisionists to a congress and stuffed their mountains of evidence up in our faces. There is no evidence of gas chambers or remains of massgraves. Ask Galileo Galilei, all truths begins as heretic to the rulers.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:26 pm)

Hannover wrote: Knowing that the corrupt Nuremberg court had taken 'judicial notice' of the unproven 'gas chambers', the Germans had little recourse but to attempt to explain away the false charges made against them. Openly challenging the court risked execution much like those accused of witchcraft.

Hundreds of people were arrested for witchcraft in the summer of 1692, and an overwhelming majority of them admitted to the charge. This was primarily due to the fact that those who denied being witches were executed.


This state of affairs led to - what I would call - "bribed confessions" (i.e. "Say in court that you are or that guy is guilty of this or that and you'll get a sweeter penalty."). Beside "forced confessions" induced by physical and/or psychological stress, many Holohoax 'confessions' probably took place through bribing. It would have been perfectly understandable. As denying the existence of gas chambers was completely useless in post-war Holohoax 'trials', it's very easy to understand why a man prefered to be jailed for a few years after 'confessing' gassings and then go back to normal life than to be jailed for life or even executed after denying gassings. This was probably truer for the German Holohoax 'trials' of the 1960's and 1970's than for the Soviet, Polish and Nuremberg Holohoax 'trials' (where physical and psychological stress was probably more often used). Many accused of the German Holohoax 'trials' of the 1960's and 1970's got acquittals or light sentences (only partly served very often) after 'confessing' gassings and other crimes. Those German courts were very critized because of that. But they wouldn't probably have got all those 'confessions' if they hadn't bribed the accused as described above.

Many detractors have criticized German proceedings, particularly those held in the 1960s and 1970s, for doling out acquittals or light sentences to aging defendants or defendants who claimed superior orders.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005140


Many people think that all the Germans of that time were "Nazis". In movies and newpapers, it's rarely said that America was fighting the Germans or Germany. Most often, it's said that America was fighting the Nazis or Hitler. But all the Germans of that time weren't National Socialists, especially among army officers. Many German army officers of that time were Junker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker) nobles (names in von...) disliking (if not hating) Hitler, his People's Reich and his reforms. So many of the high-ranked "Nazis" confessing alleged Nazi war crimes and guilt for the outbreak of WW2 were in fact anti-Nazis who had very good reasons to blame the "Nazis" for imaginary war crimes and war guilt. When they did that, they didn't only saved their own neck. They could also kill Hitler a second time after trying to kill him for real on several occasions. Many of the murder attempts on Hitler's life were plotted and implemented by German Junker officers. Count Claus von Stauffenberg wouldn't probably deny this if he was still alive.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:03 am)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3315
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hektor » 5 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:54 am)

hermod wrote:....

Many detractors have criticized German proceedings, particularly those held in the 1960s and 1970s, for doling out acquittals or light sentences to aging defendants or defendants who claimed superior orders.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005140


Many people think that all the Germans of that time were "Nazis". In movies and newpapers, it's rarely said that America was fighting the Germans or Germany. Most often, it's said that America was fighting the Nazis or Hitler. But all the Germans of that time weren't National Socialists, especially among army officers. Many German army officers of that time were Junker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker) nobles (names in von...) disliking (if not hating) Hitler, his People's Reich and his reforms. So many of the high-ranked "Nazis" confessing alleged Nazi war crimes and guilt for the outbreak of WW2 were in fact anti-Nazis who had very good reasons to blame the "Nazis" for imaginary war crimes and war guilt. ...

I'd see the allegations made by some members of the resistance in that light. But why didn't none of them claim knowledge of gassings at that time?

Take that Holocaust Shrine article a bit further:
Many detractors have criticized German proceedings, particularly those held in the 1960s and 1970s, for doling out acquittals or light sentences to aging defendants or defendants who claimed superior orders.

Many nations which Germany occupied during World War II or who collaborated with the Germans in the persecution of civilian populations, especially Jews, have also held national trials in the years following World War II. Poland, the former Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union, Hungary, Romania, and France, among others, have tried thousands of defendants—both Germans and indigenous collaborators, in the decades since 1945. The Soviet Union held its first trial, the Krasnodar Trial, against local collaborators in 1943, long before World War II had ended. Perhaps Poland's most famous postwar national trial was held in 1947 in Krakow. ...
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005140

"Superior Orders" - Can we see such a superior order to gas Jews, please?
Funny how they list a number of countries with (show) trials, which are with the exception of France Communist countries, and France had a strong Communist faction nevertheless and they were also the drivers behind such "trials". Yet the Holocaust Shrine article doesn't care to question the character of such proceedings.

User avatar
fountainhead
Member
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby fountainhead » 5 years 4 months ago (Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:02 am)

One thing I'd like to point out about the German confessions that perhaps the more well-versed members here can confirm, is the timing of the confessions. It seems to me all of them only occurred after the war (meaning, when the Germans would have been in Allied custody and vulnerable to bribes, threats or torture). Some, like Gerstein, expressed how horrible they felt the exterminations were. All these German witnesses who felt guilty about what they were doing and not a single one of them chose to break the silence and write a private letter to their wife about it during the war? Not one of them chose to defect to the Allied side and spill the beans? Not one of them wrote to a fellow Wehrmacht or SS man saying that this is wrong and it must be stopped? That's an awfully efficient code of silence, don't you think? In contrast, even a small operation like the Watergate scandal had a leak.
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present controls the past.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby hermod » 5 years 4 months ago (Mon May 19, 2014 7:55 am)

Under Torture, Accused Witches Would Confess to Almost Anything

Getting Accused Witches to Confess

Image

Confessions of witchcraft, extracted under torture or threat of torture, commonly came attached to denouncements of other possible witches, keeping the Inquisitors in business. In Spain, church records tell the story of Maria of Ituren admitting under torture that she and sister witches turned themselves into horses and galloped through the sky. In a district of France, 600 women admitted to copulating with demons.

[...] the children of convicted witches suffered even more horribly. These kids were themselves prosecuted for witchcraft -- girls after the age of nine and a half, boys after the age of ten and a half. Even younger children could be tortured to elicit testimony against parents.

A French judge is reported to have regretted being so lenient when he sentenced young kids to be flogged while they watched their parents burn instead of sentencing them to burn as well. Children may not be easily culpable for heresy or their parents' heresy, but they could certainly be influenced by or even possessed by Satan. The only hope of saving their souls was to torture their bodies to drive out the satanic influences.

Voluntary testimony from someone as young as two could be admitted despite it not being treated as valid in other cases. This was a sign of just how serious the threat of witches was perceived to be. Witches and witchcraft, both of which were in the service of Satan, threatened the very existence of Christian society, the Christian church, and Christians themselves. Normal standards of justice, evidence, and trials were abandoned because no one wanted to take the chance that respecting traditional rights and standards would allow the guilty to escape punishment.

http://atheism.about.com/od/christianit ... itches.htm


Jeanette Abadie (or l'Abadie) (born c. 1593) was a young woman of the village of Ciboure in Gascony, France, who was supposedly lured into witchcraft and was one of the principal witnesses concerning the supposed practices of the witches' Sabbath. Her account of the Sabbath was contained in the narrative of Pierre de Lancre, a royal councillor of Bordeaux, who made an exhaustive study of witchcraft after being appointed in 1609 to a commission to try people accused of it, apparently including the then sixteen-year old Jeanette.

Jeanette claimed to have been approached by a woman named Gratianne and taken to the witches' Sabbath, presided over by the Devil himself. In return, Gratianne had received a handful of gold. Jeanette said that the Devil took the form of a hideous black-skinned man with either six or eight horns on his head, a great tail, and two faces, one in front and one behind, similar to the depiction of the Roman god Janus. At her first Sabbath, she was required to renounce God, the Virgin Mary, her baptism, family, heaven, earth, and all worldly things, and was also required to kiss the Devil on the buttocks.

[...]

There was considerable sexual activity at the Sabbaths, much of it incestuous. Jeanette claimed to have lost her own virginity to the Devil at the age of thirteen (the usual age, she said, was twelve) [...] Intercourse with the Devil, she said, was very painful, since his penis was a yard long and scaly, and his semen icy cold. No intercourse at the Sabbath ever led to pregnancy. She described these sexual acts with what seemed like great pleasure and in minute detail.

At the ceremonies there were also a number of little demons without arms who kindled a great fire, into which they threw the witches, who emerged unharmed. The grand master of the witches once threw himself in and was burned to a powder, which was then used by the other witches to enchant children and make them go willingly to the Sabbath. She also saw well-known priests, some of whom she named, celebrating mass at the Sabbaths, with the demons taking the place of saints on the altar. Sometimes the Devil pierced one of the celebrants under the little toe and sucked his blood, whereupon the individual could never again make confession. Jeanette named a priest called François de Bideguaray as one of these. She also named many other witches.

Jeanette said, however, that she had made up her mind to escape the witches. For the last nine months she had tried to avoid being taken back and had sat up on the nights of the Sabbath. However, for the first three months the Devil had carried her away by day instead. For the next six months she spent the Sabbath in church, where the Devil could not reach her, and was only tricked into going with him twice. The last occasion was on 13 September 1609. She had sat up in the village church all Saturday night and at daybreak had gone home and fallen asleep. During high mass the Devil came to her, snatched off the protective amulet she wore around her neck (a higo, or piece of leather in the form of a hand, with the fist closed and the thumb passed between the first two fingers), and carried her off to the Sabbath.

That was the last time she went to the Sabbath, claimed Jeanette. She was lucky - the judges believed her story that she had been coerced and had desperately tried to escape, and by confessing her sins and renouncing witchcraft she was spared execution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanette_Abadie


Sex and Witchcraft

For good or bad, sex and witchcraft have always been linked. In one of the most remarkable accounts of a witch trial, sex with the devil formed a central part of the confession. Between April and May 1662, Isobel Gowdie, a Scottish housewife from Auldearne in Morayshire, shocked her small community by voluntarily confessing to being a witch. In fact she made four confessions in all, recounting in fascinating and explicit detail most of the elements that make up our popular idea of witchcraft. Isobel spoke at length about the Sabbath, the coven, her magical powers and, perhaps most interesting, her licentious relations with the devil.

Speaking of the sexual character of Isobel’s confession, and of her dull life on a farm, the writer Colin Wilson remarked that Isobel seemed “a highly sexed girl” who was “driven half insane with frustration, until she evolves a whole fantasy about the powers of evil.” [...] The devil, she tells us “was a big, black hairy man.” He would be with us like a stallion among mares. The youngest and lustiest women would have very great pleasure with him, much more than with their own husbands…He was more satisfying for us than any man can be The devil’s penis, Isobel tells us, was scaly and his semen cold

http://hilaryjack.blogspot.be/2008/02/s ... chman.html

http://books.google.be/books?id=nDdcVt9 ... el&f=false


Corrobarorating testimonies! Maybe the Devil really had a one-yard long scaly penis and icy cold semen, and he organized sexual orgies with attractive witches for Sabbaths, after all. :twisted: :lol:

Confession vs. Denial: Judged as a Witch

During the Salem Witch Trials, an accused person’s fate was determined by whether they chose to confess to or deny practicing witchcraft. Either way, it was a lose-lose situation for the accused because they would lose their property, get thrown in jail (and possibly die of bad conditions), or even get hanged.

When someone was accused of being a witch, he or she had a chance to confess. If that person confessed, he or she would be released from jail. One such “witch” who confessed was Mary Toothaker. She claimed that she had made a pact with the Devil to protect her from Indian attacks. As a result, Mary was released from jail after her confession. Tituba, the slave of Reverend Samuel Parris, was the first person in Salem to confess to witchcraft. She spoke about a tall man from Boston visiting her and showing her nine names in his book, supposedly the Devil’s book. Tituba’s confession led to much worry and fear in Salem about the six remaining witches (nine names minus the names of Sarah Good, Sarah Osborne, and Tituba) and sparked the witch hysteria. Out of about one hundred accused, about fifty confessed to and fifty denied practicing witchcraft.

If an accused person confessed, however, he or she could lose their property to the church. Martha Corey’s husband, Giles Corey, an accused witch, stayed silent during his trial because he wanted to leave his property for his heirs. Magistrates laid heavy rocks on Corey’s chest to torture him into confession. Corey died after two days of being crushed by the rocks. Some say Corey’s last words were “more weight” so that he would die faster.

Some people who confessed, including Mary Osgood, Mary Tiler, Deliverance Dane, Abigail Barker, Sarah Wilson, and Hannah Tiler, later recanted their confessions, saying that they were “totally overwhelmed” by the magistrates and jailers.

If the accused witch denied practicing witchcraft, then the jury would rule that person guilty, and the “witch” went to prison to await hanging. This is what happened to Rebecca Nurse. When she was accused, she told the magistrates, “I can say before my eternal father that I am innocent, and God will clear my innocence.” At first, after hearing this plea, the jury declared Nurse innocent. However, after the judge asked the jury to reconsider, they declared her guilty. Nurse’s long record of church service, and a petition, signed by John Putnam Sr., Jonathan Putnam, and others, failed to keep Nurse out of prison. Rebecca Nurse was hanged on Gallows hill on September 22nd. The second convicted witch, Sarah Osborne also denied guilt. She claimed she was a victim of witchcraft, not a witch and started shrieking and shaking when her accusers looked at her. Unfortunately, the magistrates were not convinced and Sarah Osborne went to jail with Sarah Good and Tituba. Osborne later died in custody.

Pointing the finger at other people was how Abigail Hobbs, an accused woman, tried to draw attention away from the fact that she herself had been accused. Hobbs once claimed she had made a pact with the Devil and had sold herself “body and soul to the Old Boy” (The Devil). Later, she cried out against George Burroughs, Salem’s former minister, trying to gain respect and attention with the afflicted girls. Hobbs claimed that she “saw the devil in the woods of Maine, near where my former master Burroughs lived.” However, since she was of a lower class than the afflicted girls, who all came from the most respected families in Salem, she was not accepted into their inner circle and went to jail anyway.

Over 100 people were accused during the Salem Witch Trials. The results of the trials were shockingly life-changing. Each one of them lost his or her status as a community member and either their property, if they confessed to witchcraft, or their lives, if they denied being witches. Either way, the choices in this dilemma led to bad results in the village of Salem.

http://people.ucls.uchicago.edu/~snekro ... liefs.html


Confessions of Witches Under Torture, 1617 (by J. L. Pitt): https://archive.org/details/confessionswitc00unkngoog
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:25 pm)

A way of welcoming any new person here who thinks dodgy "Nazi confessions" are proof of the impossible '6M & gas chambers'.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

LazaB
Member
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:18 am

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby LazaB » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:36 pm)

Hannover wrote:- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since they were not accompanied by scientific, physical forensic evidence presented in courts of law.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since there are no human remains as alleged that can be shown.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since the claims made of the alleged principal murder weapon (gas chambers') have been proven to be impossible as alleged in the 'holocaust' storyline.
- The 'holocaust' confessions are especially invalid since torture was used against he German 'confessors'
[/quote]

Nazis had operation to remove the evidence of their crimes, Paul Blobel for example, admitted that he was put in charge of Aktion 1005, with the task of destroying the evidence of all Nazi atrocities in Eastern Europe, he was executed for that. Do you have any evidence that he was tortured in order to confess something that is going to get him killed ?
How were they proven to be impossible ?
Where is the evidence of this massive torture of everyone who confesses, and why did the Nazis who werent even indicted testify ?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: 'holocaust confessions' no better than witchcraft's

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:38 pm)

Yes, we know all about Paul Blobel and the Aktion 1005 fantasy, I direct LazaB's attention to this thread:

Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked

No one said 'everyone who confessed was tortured', please, no false strawman arguments.

Still waiting for LazaB to show us excavations of the alleged mass graves, in another thread, of course.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests