Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

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Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby astro3 » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu May 23, 2013 11:02 am)

Two of the finest, most respected and and most outspoken US members of the 'Truth movement' are professor Jim Fetzer and Dr Kevin Barrett. both contribute regularly to 'Veterans Today' a big-hitting site for US military who have had enough of lies from their own government.

So, here is Kenin Barrett announcing Jim Fetzer's conversion: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/22/fetzerdoubts/
'Fetzer questions holocaust - Call the Spanish Inquisition!
You can see Kevin is doing a radio interview on his 'Truth Jihad Radio' (Kevin is a Muslim, founder of MUJCA Muslims Jews and Christians for 911 truth')

I've had one or two interviews with them on this topic over the years, and might have some responsibility for this situation! But its amazing how the climate of opinion has changed, that this can happen.

Jim Fetzer is a professor of logic. He's had three dozen books published. Most of his stuff in recent years has been about 9/11 (his Real Deal radio interviews: http://radiofetzer.blogspot.co.uk/). I reckon this indicates a tectonic shift in the views of progressive intelligentsia.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Moderator » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu May 23, 2013 1:13 pm)

For convenience and posterity, the text to: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/22/fetzerdoubts/
M1

Listen to Dr. James Fetzer announce his support for holocaust revisionism today on Truth Jihad Radio, 3 to 5 pm Central time.

(Madison, WI)- My VT colleague Dr. James Fetzer is no stranger to controversy. Beginning with his 1990s research on the JFK assassination, and continuing through his work on 9/11 and the assassination of Sen. Paul Wellstone, Jim Fetzer has never been shy about researching too-hot-to-touch topics and expressing politically incorrect views.

But last night at Gilad Atzmon’s talk in Madison, Wisconsin, Fetzer outdid himself. In the discussion session following Atzmon’s presentation, Fetzer announced his support for holocaust revisionism. After studying the issue, he says, he has concluded that the six-million-victims figure is grossly exaggerated, and that revisionists like Dr. Nick Kollerstrom who assert there were no mass gassings in gas chambers are right.

The announcement comes after years of study and debate, during which Dr. Fetzer was occasionally attacked by holocaust revisionists for his refusal to embrace their views until he saw sufficient supporting evidence. Israeli propaganda asset Jonathan Kay, author of the 9/11-coverup hit piece Among the Truthers, actually lauded Fetzer’s open-mindedness in an article attacking the “cultish mindset” of holocaust revisionists and other “conspiracists.”

Today, Jim Fetzer is just as open-minded as ever. It’s just that he has finally reached a firm, evidence-based conclusion on this, the ultimate third-rail topic.

What made him change his mind?

To find out, listen to today’s Truth Jihad Radio featuring my interview with Jim Fetzer, coming up today, 3 to 5 pm Central, at http://AmericanFreedomRadio.com
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Moderator » 6 years 3 months ago (Mon May 27, 2013 11:11 am)

sweetie pie:
When the people you are told to admire are not in fact admirable at all, then that becomes an important element to consider.

Everyone.
Be specific. What exactly is wrong, IYO, with Fetzer's Revisionism? What does he state that you feel is incorrect in regards to Revisionist research? Address the article posted in the OP.
Read the guidelines.
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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby sweetie pie » 6 years 3 months ago (Mon May 27, 2013 11:50 am)

Alright M1, here is the pared down essence of what is wrong with Fetzer's revisionism, from the link I posted:

Barrett similarly wrote on his Truth Jihad radio schedule blog that James Fetzer

decided to come out of the closet and announce his support for holocaust revisionism! After studying the issue, he has finally reached a firm, evidence-based conclusion on this, the ultimate third-rail topic. Jim says that the "responsible revisionists," (again unnamed) who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.

Whoop di do. That leaves me out, natch, as a responsible revisionist. Jim Fetzer "supports holocaust revisionism" as long as there remains a Nazi holocaust, no matter what the evidence shows. In other words, nothing has really changed. It is all the same old Nuremberg Tribunal.

Is that better?

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Haldan » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue May 28, 2013 4:13 am)

I knew next to nothing about this Fetzer person prior to this thread. So I won't pass any judgement on him until I read something from him which is related to 'holocaust' revisionism.
Props to him for not believing in nonsense, in any case.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby scythian » 6 years 3 months ago (Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:38 pm)

sweetie pie wrote:Alright M1, here is the pared down essence of what is wrong with Fetzer's revisionism, from the link I posted:

Barrett similarly wrote on his Truth Jihad radio schedule blog that James Fetzer

decided to come out of the closet and announce his support for holocaust revisionism! After studying the issue, he has finally reached a firm, evidence-based conclusion on this, the ultimate third-rail topic. Jim says that the "responsible revisionists," (again unnamed) who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.

Whoop di do. That leaves me out, natch, as a responsible revisionist. Jim Fetzer "supports holocaust revisionism" as long as there remains a Nazi holocaust, no matter what the evidence shows. In other words, nothing has really changed. It is all the same old Nuremberg Tribunal.

Is that better?


That quote is referring to Kevin Barret's radio interview which the link in the OP promoted. Here is a link to Kevin Barret's radio schedule blog where it was originally quoted from:

http://truthjihadradio.blogspot.com/2013/05/daniel-hopsicker-makes-tj-radio-debut.html

Here is the entire Kevin Barret comment about Fetzer's "support" for holocaust "revisionism" in its full context:

And this just in: Dr. Fetzer is so hopping mad at the Zionists that he's decided to come out of the closet and announce his support for holocaust revisionism! After studying the issue, Jim says that the "responsible revisionists," who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.
Quick, somebody call the Spanish Inquisition!


The subject states that Fetzer "becomes a Holo- Revisionist". The link in the OP states "Fetzer announced his support for holocaust revisionism. After studying the issue, he says, he has concluded that the six-million-victims figure is grossly exaggerated". Fetzer's support for holocaust "revisionism" is specific and defined: "Responsible Revisionists" who admit that there was a Nazi holocaust but insist that there were few if any gas chambers and that the "six million" figure is wildly inflated, are correct.

This definition would not apply to many (if not the majority) of the contributors here. It's limited specifically to neutral "revisionists" like Barret himself or "responsible revisionists" as Barret puts it. Meaning it is irresponsible to deny a "Nazi holocaust" but 'kosher' to insist there were "few if any gas chambers" and that the "six million" figures is wildly inflated. Now the latter statement is technically true, but notice the neutral language. Few if any gas chambers is not the same as no gas chambers (and there were no homicidal gas chambers, obviously there were delousing rooms). Not "few if any" but ZERO. And the six million figure is more than just grossly/wildly inflated/exaggerated, it's absurd, false, and has been completely debunked. Which is not the same as saying that no jews died, many people died and some of them were jews but not because of a "Nazi holocaust" or any state-sponsored program intended to kill or exterminate jews.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Hannover » 6 years 3 months ago (Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:12 pm)

I believe Fetzer, being new to Revisionism, is caught up in the branding of the 'holocaust'. He hasn't yet broken free of the 'holocaust' brand name, but essentially discredits it's main premises of '6M and gas chambers'. That in itself is welcomed and important.

I can understand why there are those that do not like his approach and think it's a bit weak, perhaps even cowardly. But it's all about steps. One step at a time people throw of the yoke of the absurd & impossible 'holocaust'. Fetzer has taken an enormous step, just like we all did at one time.

Let's hope for step by step progress from Jim Fetzer. There is no single way in which people break free of their chains.

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:13 am)

Hannover wrote:But it's all about steps.

Precisely. No one jumps in a single leap from full acceptance to total rejection. And how far should rejection go? Fetzer has said there were few if any gas chambers, That means he has seen no evidence that there were any but not absolute proof that there weren't.

Isn't that the position of most of us? It's the burden of proof argument that has been discussed in other threads. It's up to those who assert something to offer the evidence; none of us can prove there were no gas chambers, but until the other side offers some convincing evidence we are entitled to assume that there were none. It's Russell's teapot.

There are individuals like Alexander Baron who actually think it likely there may have been the odd gas chamber, but still class themselves firmly as Revisionists.

Let's embrace people who have doubts. My own position is that I don't "believe in No Holocaust". I just don't believe in the Holocaust. It's about evidence, not ideology.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby JimFetzer » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:29 pm)

Let me add to the discussion, which has been reasonably thoughtful to this point in time. I have just published

"Anti-Anti-Semitism and the Search for Historical Truth",
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04 ... cal-truth/

If you listen to the interviews I link there, then you should be able to track my reasoning about the reality of the Holocaust, combined with "On Revisionism, Historicism" and ICRC records I also cite as among the most important factors that have influenced my thinking. In addition, I have several earlier articles related to the Holocaust, namely:

"The War on Truth: Research on the Holocaust can End your Career"
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/04 ... ur-career/

"ISIS trips, stumbles and falls"
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2011/06 ... falls.html

I also have a two-hour interview with Ernst Zundel in the archives for "The Real Deal", which I am sure most of those who are active here will appreciate:

3 FRIDAY, AUGUST 3, 2012
Ernst Zundel
Persecuted & imprisoned for research on WWII
http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20 ... 0zundel.mp

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Moderator » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:37 pm)

Jim Fetzer:
We're glad you could join us.
Let me advise you that we have guidelines. And one of those states that you cannot just post a link or a quote while going without comment on the salient points of the link / quote.. Since you are new here all is forgiven for the time being, but please adhere to our reasonable guidelines.

The specific guideline states:
If you post a quote or link from or to a book, a news article, magazine story, another website, etc., you must also comment on the quote or the link content. Tell the forum what you find wrong, compelling, unique, or important about the quote or link content. Flippant, overly brief comments are not acceptable. We want commentary and discussion.
All guidelines here:
Rules/Guidelines for Holocaust Revisionism Forum

Thank you.
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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby JimFetzer » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:21 pm)

(1) The new article discusses constraints being proposed that would make Holocaust denial a crime in most countries:

“When did fact become myth? Is Jewish ownership of large sections of the media a myth? Are AIPAC and the US government’s subservience to Israel a myth? Is repeated interference in Church affairs by Jewish groups a myth?”–Stuart Littlewood

As Stuart Littlewood has reported, “These ‘commandments’ must be obeyed”, a new surge of suppression of criticism of the policies and actions of the government of Israel has surfaced. These “commandments” are clearly intended to reflect a conception of anti-Semitism that is vastly broader than is justifiable and which has the effect of insulating Zionists and the State of Israel from criticism, no matter how criminal, immoral or corrupt their acts:

Is there a working definition of anti-Semitism? Yes, it’s here: “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

For example….

* Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

* Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

As Stuart observes, “When did fact become myth? Is Jewish ownership of large sections of the media a myth? Are AIPAC and the US government’s subservience to Israel a myth? Is repeated interference in Church affairs by Jewish groups a myth?” In logic, this is called “begging the question” by taking for granted (assuming or presupposing) a proposition when its truth requires establishment on independent grounds. This is a stance that is loaded with presuppositions and assumptions that are intended to insure that Israel and Zionism are afforded formal, official protection, when the fact of the matter is that there are good reasons to question many elements of the accounts we have been given about the Holocaust, for example, where the power exerted by the Israeli lobby are largely fueled by Western guilt over offenses that appear to be highly exaggerated if not complete fabrications. (read more)

(2) The second and third articles concern the experiences of Nicholas Kollerstrom, an historian of science, who was fired from his position at University College London for conducting scientific research on the Holocaust--in particular, on the claim that Zykon-B had been used to murder masses--and a second article about how a reviewer for ISIS suggested that a collaborative volume on the history of astronomers--for which Nick authored the key article on Sir Isaac Newton--ought to be sent back to the publisher and pulped, not because of its contents but because Nick, who had done research on the Holocaust, had contributed to the book.

(3) The interview with Ernst Zundel, which his wife told me she thought was the best interview he had ever given, covered his experiences and the consequences of his research on the Holocaust without actually detailing any of his findings or arguments, which would have been a violation of German laws against Holocaust denial, which I regard as absurd. If the Holocaust was real, then research will affirm it; and it it was not, the world deserves to know. Definitely worth a listen.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby sweetie pie » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:09 am)

Unbelievable. Is this thread now to be hijacked by Jim Fetzer advertising himself? Astro3's initial advertisements of him were not enough? What does any of the above two posts have to do with the topic of this thread, that "Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo-Revisionist"? Thank you.

And as a beginner, are not his posts moderated?

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby JimFetzer » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:42 am)

Reviewing the comments, I suggest that "sweetie pie" listen to the interview. Based upon my recollection, I did not make the statement that she attacks. That was Kevin Barrett's interpretation. If she can document something I actually said and show what I have wrong, that would be fine. But it seems to me she has not done her homework and her criticism of me, although it sounds plausible on its face, represents Kevin's words rather than mine. I do not believe that I said that. And I do not remember drawing a distinction between the "responsible" and "irresponsible" criticism. I am a Holocaust skeptic. So if she can support her charge against me, well and good; but I don't think she can do it. Those were Kevin's remarks. I am fallible, however, so if I said something that deserves further explanation, I am here to do it. Since I have abided by the moderator's admonitions, I now see that sweetie pie is upping the ante. Well, I have already complied. Sorry about that, which I take as further proof that she doesn't do her homework.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:55 am)

It seems to me that if a thread is about Person A then Person A is in a position to make useful contributions. I have found Jim Fetzzer's to be reasonable and interesting and in no way meriting the label of self justification, though I don't see why a person who is attacked shouldn't justify himself.

I have no idea what sweetiepie's objection to Jim Fetzer is, but it's his/her problem, not mine or Jim's. Please either adopt the tone of civil debate or leave the thread.

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Re: Jim Fetzer becomes a Holo- Revisionist

Postby sweetie pie » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:29 am)

JimFetzer wrote:Reviewing the comments, I suggest that "sweetie pie" listen to the interview. Based upon my recollection, I did not make the statement that she attacks. That was Kevin Barrett's interpretation. If she can document something I actually said and show what I have wrong, that would be fine. But it seems to me she has not done her homework and her criticism of me, although it sounds plausible on its face, represents Kevin's words rather than mine. I do not believe that I said that. And I do not remember drawing a distinction between the "responsible" and "irresponsible" criticism. I am a Holocaust skeptic. So if she can support her charge against me, well and good; but I don't think she can do it. Those were Kevin's remarks. I am fallible, however, so if I said something that deserves further explanation, I am here to do it. Since I have abided by the moderator's admonitions, I now see that sweetie pie is upping the ante. Well, I have already complied. Sorry about that, which I take as further proof that she doesn't do her homework.


Great, Now we're getting somewhere.

I did listen to the interview. But I am responding here to what is posted here, as is the way it is done according to my understanding.

Perhaps this entire thread should be deleted since it is based on a falsehood put out by Kevin Barrett, and repeated by Astro3, that Jim Fetzer had "suddenly" become a "Holo-denier." And, that this is news. Barrett is in the habit of putting out promos for his radio shows that might be a tad misleading in order to bring as many listeners as possible, which is common, and even acceptable, in advertising, but has no place in serious revisionism. You, Jim Fetzer, have clarified and confirmed in your above post that Kevin's words are not your words.

The Moderator published the entire promo by Barrett which you now say did not reflect your true position. You say you "are" a holocaust sceptic (not revisionist?) and you link to a radio interview you did with Ernst Zundel in August 2012 to show that this goes back a ways. So it is not about me "doing my homework" at all, but about the accuracy of Astro3's original post.

The question is, Jim Fetzer: Have you become a holocaust revisionist? Or do you prefer to label yourself as holocaust sceptic, as you did above and have been doing for several years already. Thank you in advance for your answer.


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