War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

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hermod
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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:37 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:This kind of language is holocaust myth-like.

I know of a famous barbed wire photo (to imply concentration camp) on the cover of Time or Newsweek that brought the public into indignation against Serbia but was a photo later shown to be out of context so as to make pro-war propaganda.

Then there is Robert Holbrooke, one of the biggest proponents of intervention. A Jew with a very anglo name who later became security council representative using the the USA veto power to support Israel. I think Tom Lantos was also a big interventionist.

I remember the Jewish controlled media at the time of that conflict putting out pro-war propaganda articles against Serbia, and I remember often mentioned comparisons to Hitler and ethnic cleansing.

I remember US bombs included bomblets (or cluster bombs?) in a market place if I remember, and journalists killed when the tv station was bombed.

I remember an article on General Wesley Clark who had discovered his father was a Chicago politician and Jewish, saying something about connecting the Jewish holocaust to his military actions in Serbia and preventing something similar to what happened to the Jews from happening in the former Yugoslavia.

This all fits the mold quite well of subsequent military actions based on bogus info and propaganda.

This is off topic though, and I haven't really studied it.


That's true.

Image

See here: The Picture that Fooled the World - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t900522/

And there were also staged 'massacres' like the "Racak massacre" "which the United States cited as a major reason for the bombing campaign [in Yugoslavia]" : http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans1.html - http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/ranta.htm.

As others here, I disagree with borjastick on that point. Wars are complicated things. There may exist conventions and agreements on different matters (POW's, etc.), when your relatives or friends have been killed by people of the other side, you just retaliate on people of the other side (even on the innocent ones). That's human. But that doesn't prove your side planned and implemented a genocide, an extermination of the people of the other side...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby borjastick » 6 years 3 months ago (Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:07 am)

Wikipedia is not to be believed when you think it will show another 'holocaust' like massacre. There must never be any other genocide greater than the jewish holocaust. NATO and the UN failed miserably in Bosnia and these wars of the period in the greater region. Muslims were massacred en masse and the UN/NATO were engaged in a cover up afterwards to a degree to preserve their reputation.
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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:09 am)

borjastick wrote:NATO and the UN failed miserably in Bosnia and these wars of the period in the greater region. Muslims were massacred en masse and the UN/NATO were engaged in a cover up afterwards to a degree to preserve their reputation.


A bit like the alleged "Sonderkommando 1005 Unit" locating thousands of jewish mass graves, exhuming the bodies in them and cremating millions of corpses to ashes on outdoor burning pits, isn't it? :roll:

If I remember correctly, we've been showed a mass grave with 500 corpses in it at Srebrenica (mainly male corpses - 500 males killed during a war, how surprising!) and we've been told there were 8,000 muslim corpses burried at some places. But I'm still waiting to see the other 7,500 missing corpses today...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:35 pm)

CCS

Partially OT maybe, but interesting. I have observed the atrocity bias in reporting on former Yugoslavia and tended to think that David Owen was nearer the mark when he said "There are no Boy Scouts in Bosnia".

I had already read some critical materials on Srbrenica, Racak and Krajina, but the links you provided gave more detail and a valuable summary.

I just don't believe that in wars there are black hats and white hats.

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby phdnm » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:44 am)

You May Have Missed John Kerry's Subtle Holocaust Reference at the Syria Hearing

Sen. Tom Udall (D-NM) pushed back on John Kerry more than most Democrats at Tuesday's hearing, and though he never explicitly asked it, the implied question was, "What are the chances doing something will be worse than doing nothing?" After some back-and-forth, Kerry compared U.S. inaction now to an incident in the days leading up to World War II:

It's not a question of what will happen if we don't do it; it's a certainty. Are you going to be comfortable if Assad, as a result of the United States not doing anything, then gasses his people yet again, and the world says, "Why didn't the United States act?" History is full of opportunity of moments where someone didn't stand up and act when it made a difference. And whether you go back to World War II or you look at a ship that was turned away from the coast of Florida and everybody on it lost their lives subsequently to German gas, those are the things that make a difference. And that's what's at stake here.

The incident Kerry referred to is the voyage of the St. Louis. In 1939, the St. Louis, a transatlantic liner, carried hundreds of Jewish refugees trying to escape the Third Reich from Germany to Cuba. The 938 passengers were turned away in Havana, then Miami, and after the ship ultimately returned to Europe, 254 of its passengers died in the Holocaust—so not "everybody," as Kerry said.

Kerry comparing Bashar al-Assad's regime to Nazi Germany is to be expected—more than one thousand Syrians were killed by gas, so his argument isn't exactly Godwin's Law. But you may assume that the chemical weapons ban upon which the Syrian intervention is balanced was passed after World War II. In fact, the Geneva Protocol's ban on chemical weapons was signed in 1925, and the U.S. was the "last major industrial power" to ratify the protocol, 50 years after we signed it.


John Kerry compares Syria chemical attack to the Holocaust.

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby phdnm » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:46 am)

Simon Wiesenthal Center calls for action against Syria

Leaders of the Simon Wiesenthal Center called on lawmakers Tuesday to support President Obama’s request to take action against Syria, invoking the memory of the Holocaust in a strongly worded letter.

The group’s stance came amid a growing push by some key Jewish organizations to back Obama’s call for a military strike against Syria, citing a moral obligation to stand up against leaders who slaughter their own people.

Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Jewish human rights center, and Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the associate dean, noted in their letter that in 1942, a World Jewish Congress representative in Switzerland told U.S. and British officials of a Nazi plan to use gas to kill Jews.

Both governments were skeptical about the information and tragically wasted precious months doing nothing about it,” they wrote. “By 1945, six million Jews were murdered; most gassed in Nazi death camps in what became known as the Holocaust, the greatest crime in the annals of human history.

“Since then, every American President, British Prime Minister and other political leaders around the world have pledged again and again that they will never allow history to repeat itself.”

Hier and Cooper noted that last month, the British parliament voted not to take action against Syria.

“Now, on September 9, it will be up to you to vote,” they wrote, adding: “On behalf of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, we urge you to vote for the limited strike, because to do otherwise would only embolden the perpetrators and encourage them to gas more victims, while at the same time signaling the world that America’s assurances and promises mean nothing at all.”

“This may not be the perfect solution, but it will send a dramatic signal to the Assad regime and all others, that you will have to pay a very high price if you continue to perpetrate such crimes against humanity,” they concluded.


Simon Wiesenthal Center calls for action against Syria

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby borjastick » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:15 am)

“By 1945, six million Jews were murdered; most gassed in Nazi death camps in what became known as the Holocaust, the greatest crime in the annals of human history.


Did I miss something? I thought the use of the six million was on the wane, now we see it big and bold attached to another scenario altogether. He also claims most were gassed. News to me.
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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby borjastick » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:51 am)

I read the story of the St Louis. This section caught my eye;

"Following the US government's refusal to permit the passengers to disembark, the St. Louis sailed back to Europe on June 6, 1939. The passengers did not return to Germany, however. Jewish organizations (particularly the Jewish Joint Distribution Committee) negotiated with four European governments to secure entry visas for the passengers: Great Britain took 288 passengers; the Netherlands admitted 181 passengers, Belgium took in 214 passengers; and 224 passengers found at least temporary refuge in France. Of the 288 passengers admitted by Great Britain, all survived World War II save one, who was killed during an air raid in 1940. Of the 620 passengers who returned to continent, 87 (14%) managed to emigrate before the German invasion of Western Europe in May 1940. 532 St. Louis passengers were trapped when Germany conquered Western Europe. Just over half, 278 survived the Holocaust. 254 died: 84 who had been in Belgium; 84 who had found refuge in Holland, and 86 who had been admitted to France. "

How do they know the figures and results of the 532 who supposedly returned to the continent? How can they say with certainty that 254 died in the holocaust, could they have survived but were untraceable afterwards? Could they have died in the normal run of the war? Why is it that these catch all claims that Jews 'died in the holocaust' simply because they want it to be? They have no proof of these deaths I suspect.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:06 pm)

phdnm wrote:
Simon Wiesenthal Center calls for action against Syria

Simon Wiesenthal Center calls for action against Syria


Image
The Pittsburgh Press - Feb 8, 1991, p.4

I think we should try and understand that the Wiesenthal Centre is only being true to the principles of Wiesenthal himself.

:roll:
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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:25 pm)

The BBC's flagship news programme: The Ten O'Clock News, has just being showing footage of Syrian Assad supporters giving the Bellamy salute...or perhaps it was the Nazi salute.

I'll try and grab some screenshots when it's on iPlayer later.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:38 pm)

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby spaceboy » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:32 pm)

Sannhet wrote:A theme of "Denierbud's" work is that the WWII-Holocaust narrative, as it is understood by the regular person today, is used to justify wars now.

There seems to be a clear example of this from a commenter on the Washington Post site. In response to other commenters who said that the USA should avoid intervention in Syria because it "isn't our fight", he wrote:

"According to the WingNuts here, we should have let Hitler gas the Jews. After all, it wasn't our fight."

The full exchange:
Image

Others said:
"Actually, we did let Hitler gas the Jews. We got in when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor."
"Hitler didn't gas the Jews until late in the war."
"We also liberated many concentration camps."

A lot of ignorance is revealed in just a few short sentences above.

WWII as primarily about "gassing the Jews" is implied by those comments. It's not even that the Holocaust is "believed", that gassing is still "believed". It's that the entirety of WWII history, in the minds of these commenters, seems to revolve around the fantasy that Hitler invaded a series of countries solely to kill their Jews until a few other countries courageously said "No!" and stopped him from killing more Jews. I'm sure these people are aware that other political issues existed in 1939, but they just don't think they are important. Even the defender of U.S. policy in the WashPost thread boasts that "we liberated concentration camps"!


...and here's a blatant example of the Holocaust myth being used to justify a war with Syria over their alleged use of chemicals weapons:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... jew-never/

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Jewish, stated on CNN Monday night:

"For me as a mother, to see that searing image of babies lined up, murdered by their own government, innocent children...I mean, as a Jew, Wolf, I have to tell you, as a member of Congress who represents one of the largest Holocaust survivor populations in the country, to me, the concept of never again, has to mean something. And the United States, morally, cannot turn the other cheek. Too many leaders of ours have regretted that decision.”

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:39 pm)

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a member of Hadassah, the Women's Zionist Organization of America

They were pushing the six million before it happened:

Stating that "6,000,000 Jews in central Europe have neither life nor death because of extreme persecution," Mrs Emanuel Halpern of New York City, member of the national board of Hadassah urged ... Today there are 6,000,000 million (sic) Jews in central Europe who have neither life nor death.

Fitchburg Sentinel (MA), February 17, 1937, page 1 & 11


And before they were supposed to know it had happened:

Hadassah President Send Greetings ... Almost 6,000,000 Jews were wiped out during these years, the most bitter in the long history of Jewish martyrdom.

Jewish Western Bulletin, September 7, 1945 - p.43
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:30 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:The BBC's flagship news programme: The Ten O'Clock News, has just being showing footage of Syrian Assad supporters giving the Bellamy salute...or perhaps it was the Nazi salute.

I'll try and grab some screenshots when it's on iPlayer later.
Jeremy Bowen is one of the best journalists on TV. He can be relied upon to go below the surface and analyse the issues. Here he was showing that there is strong loyalty to Assad in some sections of the population, especially here in his own Alawi community, reinforcing the fairly obvious conclusion that this is a civil war based on communities rather than Assad "attacking his own people".

I had not heard of the Bellamy salute. It's very interesting as it shows that the so-called "Nazi" salute only became identified as such after the event. In this case, although the camera operator shot the scenes from a low angle, which appears to be deliberate manipulation, Bowen makes no comment whatsoever, and overall I thought his piece was pretty fair reporting.

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Re: War Against Syria and the 2010s' Pop-Narrative of WWII

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:52 pm)

When you have this sensitive juncture of possible war, you have to watch for the new Judas Goats: possible candidate this time around: President of France, Jeremy Bowen, etc.

A Judas Goat can be a respected person even known for moderate, humanitarian causes, who turn pro-war at a critical juncture. The New York Times often takes the Judas Goat role, but in 1991, Amnesty International even did: they said babies were being pulled off life support, lending credence to that lie.

Al Jazeerah became the Judas Goat in the libyan Quadaffi war. Years prior it was known as a respected even-handed news source among USA liberal antiwar people. Now it's drifted into obscurity, which is a Judas Goat trait. Another example: Judith Miller writing pro-war front page New York Times articles, now she's drifted into obscurity once the war damage is done.

Presidents of the USA are often Judas Goats. WWII had Roosevelt's secret map speech. Because he died right when the holocaust myth started (in some ways on the very day the holocaust myth started) Eisenhower became a postwar Judas Goat if you can have that, by participating with Psych Warfare to portray Ohrdruf and Buchenwald as death camps.


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